Can the USA build Trump's battleships or not. - Page 11
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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    What is the M16 replacement called?
    Giant Money-Wasting Boondoggle ?

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Giant Money-Wasting Boondoggle ?
    The MWB-12??

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Giant Money-Wasting Boondoggle ?
    Yes a really bad screw up. It is hard to fix these kinds of things as they had not proven them very well.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    Then capacity and weight are impacted.
    But fine.
    Pack a 6.5mm into a blown out 5.56 and swap followers and a barrel.
    There’s already a squad shooter with a big gun.

    Hell, just issue AR10 for long engagements, keep the 15 for CQ.
    Same ergo as has been trained for decades.
    Existing manufacturing in place.
    Decades of improvements already done.
    I don’t follow the developments all that closely.
    I would offer that they probably have cause.
    I have been slowly putting together a civi m4 thinking I might try my hand at service rifle with our local club.
    Would be a pity if the rifle is obsolete before I get around to finishing it..

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    I don’t follow the developments all that closely.
    I would offer that they probably have cause.
    I have been slowly putting together a civi m4 thinking I might try my hand at service rifle with our local club.
    Would be a pity if the rifle is obsolete before I get around to finishing it..
    They still shoot Garand in service rifle, I think you’ll be OK.

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  7. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    They still shoot Garand in service rifle, I think you’ll be OK.

    But but.... I won’t be one of the cool kids..

  8. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    But but.... I won’t be one of the cool kids..
    In my opinion that WOULD make you one of the cool kids...with a bruise.

  9. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    In my opinion that WOULD make you one of the cool kids...with a bruise.
    Chip on your shoulder?

  10. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Chip on your shoulder?
    Just old and in the way...
    But really, the ping when the clip kicks out and loading while maintaining cheek weld...I enjoy that.

  11. #210
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    As long as I have been doing competitions- I never really messed with any centerfire rifles.

  12. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    As long as I have been doing competitions- I never really messed with any centerfire rifles.
    You shoot 2700?

  13. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    But but.... I won’t be one of the cool kids..
    Exactly. That's what it's all about. And we get to pay 800 billion a year for this shit.

  14. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    They should call it the AK47.

    Seriously, there’s little real improvement to be made in either platformas far as their function as a people killing tool goes.
    small arms are not "people killing tools'. They are psychological props to keep the guys on the ground feeling less like the targets they are. Starting in the late 19th century, the actual killing on battlefields has been done with artillery, and the percentage of deaths due to small arms has been dropping every year. The reason they give soldiers full auto is that then, there is at least a tiny chance they may hit a few percent of the enemy that lives after the mortars, artillery, missiles, mines, airplanes, tanks, and bombs do their work. Small arms fire is notoriously inaccurate, and accounts for almost no actual battlefield use beyond making the poor suckers feel better. Of course, everybody knows that 110% of the guys on the ground are exceptions, and actually world class snipers.
    But really, the trend in small arms is towards high volume fire, not catering to the few guys who can actually keep their shit together enough to shoot accurately before the RPG gets em. In WW2, small arms fire accounted for between 14% and 30% of casualties- and its kept going down from there.
    In Iraq and Afghanistan, in the first five years or so of each war, US casualties were around 13% from small arms- and the enemy didnt have much bigger than mortars. I am pretty sure the Iraqi and Afghani small arms casualties were below 10%, as we had so much more big exploding things to drop on them.
    In the movies, Rambo hits a bad guy with every shot, and drags 100 rounds of 50 caliber ammo around. In real life, its about keeping cannon fodder from feeling like they are cannon fodder by giving them sexy tactical black arms- but they dont actually expect them to have any major tactical value.

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  16. #214
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    Mostly yes.
    But ex-usa most shooting and killing is done with ak variants.

    Only the us can afford massive bombardments via artillery.
    The south american, iraq, afghanistan, etc. conflicts are all about rifle fire.

    The US retreated from most/all small afghan observation bases/pobs, because they could not support them via artillery etc.
    And because belligerent afghan fighters kept inflicting casualties - via ak variants.

    The ak variant semi/automatic rifles kill about 10-100x more people per year than any other weapons system.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    small arms are not "people killing tools'. They are psychological props to keep the guys on the ground feeling less like the targets they are. Starting in the late 19th century, the actual killing on battlefields has been done with artillery, and the percentage of deaths due to small arms has been dropping every year. The reason they give soldiers full auto is that then, there is at least a tiny chance they may hit a few percent of the enemy that lives after the mortars, artillery, missiles, mines, airplanes, tanks, and bombs do their work.

  17. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanermo View Post
    Mostly yes.
    But ex-usa most shooting and killing is done with ak variants.

    Only the us can afford massive bombardments via artillery.
    The south american, iraq, afghanistan, etc. conflicts are all about rifle fire.

    The US retreated from most/all small afghan observation bases/pobs, because they could not support them via artillery etc.
    And because belligerent afghan fighters kept inflicting casualties - via ak variants.

    The ak variant semi/automatic rifles kill about 10-100x more people per year than any other weapons system.
    In actual warfare, this is not true. It may be true in countries where there is essentially no rule of law, and civil war between militias, but even then, RPGs and IEDs play a big role. And the statistics for Afghanistan that I have found have not borne this out- about half of "allied" casualties in Afghanistan were not even from the enemy, but from accidents, crashes, failures, and even some friendly fire. Afghans get credit for around 22% of alliance casualties from small arms, more recently, which, in afghanistan, would include Dshk's as well as Aks.
    this is a figure that has varied- it was actually closer to 10% in the first 5 years.
    Lots of studies on this online, for wars going back to the Crimean.

    here is just one.
    https://www.mrc-bsu.cam.ac.uk/wp-con...ationality.pdf

  18. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    In actual warfare, this is not true. ... Lots of studies on this online, for wars going back to the Crimean.
    The fast-repeating, close-in Henry had a field day at the Little Bighorn. When the seventh couldn't hide behind captured women and children and had to fight armed warriors, they broke and ran like the cowards they were ....


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