Can the USA build Trump's battleships or not. - Page 2
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 213
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    2,460
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    442
    Likes (Received)
    1747

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Who cars what the Navy wants ? All they are good for is crashing into cargo ships. Fuck em.

    At least battleships looked cool. It's all a giant stupid waste anyhow.


    We don't need new ones, the old ones work fine, but other than that, agreed. Keep the subs and scrap the rest of this worthless shit. And drown the entire braindead ignorant paid-killer army like a bunch of unwanted kittens.

    Now we have enough money to fix the broken US society. Or maybe even let people keep some of it.
    Hey man, I'll be happy sit around the campfire and sing kumbaya and make smores when everyone's ready.

    But until then, I don't want the US to have the second best anything.

    And I'm pretty sure if throwing money at it would fix our broken society, it would have been fixed by now.

  2. Likes Spinit, eaglemike, jfleisher, Yan Wo liked this post
  3. #22
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Country
    DENMARK
    Posts
    3,155
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4007
    Likes (Received)
    12666

    Default

    I don’t get it. North Korea does OK with its defence with only a few nukes.

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    2,460
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    442
    Likes (Received)
    1747

    Default

    A new Battleship though. It cracks me up.

    I think he just wants one for a Presidential Yacht.

    I don’t get it. North Korea does OK with its defence with only a few nukes.
    We'll build 2 battleships. One for Trump and one for Crazy Kim, lol.

  5. Likes JoeE. liked this post
  6. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Alabama
    Posts
    42
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    5

    Default

    Today you would build a cruise-missile and ECM platform, possibly with some anti-satellite capability, not a gun platform. And the heavy armor belt is almost pointless against airborne, submarine, and high-tech shaped charge missile threats which respectively hit above, hit below, and readily penetrate the armor belt. Look at aircraft carriers. They project force tremendously further, but have to be accompanied by an entire task force for protection because the threats are equally tremendous.

  7. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Edison Washington USA
    Posts
    10,322
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    964
    Likes (Received)
    5322

    Default

    If you built a ship without heavy armor, as a cruise missile platform, thats NOT a "battleship".
    Amazingly enough- we ARE building ships like that.

    they are called guided missile cruisers.

    its true, that the Navy wants a new generation of these- but at a low low cost of only about $2 Billion each- which means you get about 5 times as many ships for the same money as if you build Battleships.

    Why the U.S. Navy Wants a New Generation of Warships

  8. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,046
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1387
    Likes (Received)
    881

    Default

    As far as if the infrastructure is there to build heavy armor plate and heavy turrets. AFAIK, it's been gone for awhile, but I think it could be brought back if there was enough demand, IOW more than just battleships. If the military wants more long range high caliber guns on sea AND on land, the machinery and expertise could come back. Same with the armor plate, although that one likely could have much more use than just military.

    One thing I think went away with the infrastructure that fought the wars in the last century, was the centralized resolve from the general population. It briefly came back after 9/11, but there's so much division over the military these days. Not that EVERYONE was united back then, but I believe that a big reason we won wars back then was because you not only had good hearted soldiers and commanders, you also had good hearted factory operators, machinists, and engineers. All of which knew that their job was important and made a difference. Everyone WANTED to do their part for the cause. If you had THAT, I don't doubt we could build a few gun barrels on our own shores.

    Now do we NEED battleships? Definitely not the classic ones, they sadly are obsolete, but I think the concept could still have merit depending on how you define it. A fast ship that can take and give heavy beatings could still be put to use, but how it does those things would need to change for it to be effective.

    I think the problem Trump see's is not that our ships are being shot out of the water by other ships, but that people see movies like Battleship and all the floating museums around the country and they get the impression that our fleet has been slighted by the global economy and military budget cuts. Wither or not it has, I think trying to get people out of that mindset would be an important thing.

  9. Likes Ziggy2 liked this post
  10. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    barcelona, spain
    Posts
    2,369
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    525
    Likes (Received)
    1422

    Default

    The thread was .. could the us build such things.

    Obviously yes, easily, fast, if the money is there.

    --
    Should it ?
    IDK.

    It would be a waste of money .. but so is a lot of US military stuff anyway.
    So contractors could get richer and some few workers get high paying jobs for a while.

    --
    IF the thread is about the US projecting military power, globally, via navy, that is about to come to an end.
    Dirt cheap drones and DIY cruise missiles will make anything except (perhaps) subs irrelevant.

    Only the threat of nukes is a real deterrent, and fragmented non-state actors make nuke deterrents less effective.

    Ruling out nukes makes diy long-distance weapons the critical path, with multiple probable negative effects.

  11. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    5,126
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    177
    Likes (Received)
    1475

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by M.B. Naegle View Post
    ... A fast ship that can take and give heavy beatings could still be put to use ...
    What does it mean "take ... heavy beatings"? There is ample and relatively cheap shaped-charge tech available to anyone, which can penetrate arbitrarily thick armor. It is true that most modern anti-ship warheads are not armor-piercing specialists, because they don't need to be -- modern naval combatants are not heavily armored, having realized the futility and downsides of that defense. But, it is pretty straightforward to switch over to armor-piercing warheads if needed.

    Regards.

    Mike

  12. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    moscow,ohio
    Posts
    5,905
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    579
    Likes (Received)
    1889

    Default

    i still do not see how anyone can think a wall is a solution.
    drugs do not need to be smuggled the way they used to be...a flock of carrier pigeons could bring enough fentanlyl to decimate the entire US...that crap is evil...was just in the hospital and they gave me a shot of it before I could speak up...30 seconds later I was puking my guts out and screaming from the headache.
    no one wants Mexican pot either BTW.

    Put the money to better use in breaks for the people that live and do business here, in education,clean water,clean food....health crisis for the most part solved and get a major return on investment.

  13. Likes JoeE. liked this post
  14. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Myrtle Point, Oregon USA
    Posts
    337
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    55
    Likes (Received)
    249

    Default

    i still do not see how anyone can think a wall is a solution."

    ...Can't discuss "Defense" without mentioning De Fence....

    The effectiveness of the "Wall" is not an argument.

    A promise made is a debt unpaid....

  15. Likes JoeE. liked this post
  16. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    1,937
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    898

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by iwananew10K View Post
    Put the money to better use in breaks for the people that live and do business here, in education,clean water,clean food....health crisis for the most part solved and get a major return on investment.
    What are you, crazy or something ? We have ENEMIES ! North Korea is going to invade and kill us all ! A bunch of rugheads in Afghanistan will creep under our tents in the night and cut our throats ! Zimbabwe is on the march ! In Lichtenstein they eat American babies ! We need guns ! Missiles ! Satellites ! A trillion a year to protect our freedoms !

    You faggot peaceniks make me puke !

    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Hey man, I'll be happy sit around the campfire and sing kumbaya and make smores when everyone's ready.

    But until then, I don't want the US to have the second best anything.
    Already have the best weapons, e.g. Vincennes. Maybe need to work on the imbeciles that drive them. Fucking morons.

    p.s. The US is already about third-best at most things. You can start with health care and move on to machine tool and most other manufacturing. Let's face facts - the US is shit. Might want to work on that instead of these delusions of grandeur.

  17. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,046
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1387
    Likes (Received)
    881

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Finegrain View Post
    What does it mean "take ... heavy beatings"? There is ample and relatively cheap shaped-charge tech available to anyone, which can penetrate arbitrarily thick armor. It is true that most modern anti-ship warheads are not armor-piercing specialists, because they don't need to be -- modern naval combatants are not heavily armored, having realized the futility and downsides of that defense. But, it is pretty straightforward to switch over to armor-piercing warheads if needed.

    Regards.

    Mike
    I think the concept used to be a lot simpler. Ships had to stand up against simple high caliber rounds from other ships. Now? I'm not sure what technology would be the answer, but just having thick skin won't cut it anymore. It only has to be nuke-proof.

  18. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    2,460
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    442
    Likes (Received)
    1747

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    ...Already have the best weapons, e.g. Vincennes. Maybe need to work on the imbeciles that drive them. Fucking morons.

    p.s. The US is already about third-best at most things. You can start with health care and move on to machine tool and most other manufacturing. Let's face facts - the US is shit. Might want to work on that instead of these delusions of grandeur.
    Vincennes was scrapped in 2011.

    I did not really mean anything literally, as in everything. I was speaking in the limited context of the DoD. So I don't want a second-best Navy, Air Force, etc.

    Yes, there are many areas where we are not #1- I concede that point.

    I'm okay cutting the Pentagon provided the mission is cut accordingly. But consideration has to be made over who fills the vacuum, and which allies we tell to go pound sand...

  19. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    1,937
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    898

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Vincennes was scrapped in 2011.
    Shortly after they gave Will Rogers a medal for murdering 300 people ? If there were any justice in the US that son of a bitch would have been in prison for the rest of his life. You know that.

    How can anyone in the entire world admire the US when all we are is ignorant murdering thugs ?

    I did not really mean anything literally, as in everything. I was speaking in the limited context of the DoD. So I don't want a second-best Navy, Air Force, etc.
    Oh. So all you care about is the fucking military ?

    Face it, janc -- our military is shit. They have done nothing of value for seventy-five years. You've got a DB-7 Aston driven by Alfred E Neuman. They are incompetent morons.

    Worse, they are ignorant, paid killers who have only ever been successful at beating up on the helpless. Stack them up against anyone dedicated and they aren't worth a can of beans. They have proven they can't actually defend the country against half a dozen rugheads with box cutters. They are stupid beyond belief and incompetent on top of it. Fuck it. They do vastly more harm than good. Get rid of them.

    Even worse are the buffoons in charge of the whole mess. What did that stupid shit general say after 9/11 ? "We just couldn't get there in time ! He was flying as fast as he could, 500 miles an hour !"

    Uhh, prop planes in WW II were faster than that. We paid millions ... no, make that trillions of dollars for this shit ?

    Fire them. They can dig ditches, if they can pass the IQ test.

    Yes, there are many areas where we are not #1- I concede that point.
    Because we have pissed away all our assets and talents on financial shysters and the brain-dead army.

    Time to change course.

    I'm okay cutting the Pentagon provided the mission is cut accordingly. But consideration has to be made over who fills the vacuum, and which allies we tell to go pound sand...
    Absolutely ! There is no "mission" except harass the rest of the world. They do nothing of value. There IS no "vacuum" because this crap is all fantasies in some mouth-breather's head at the pentagon. They are almost a total waste.

    Okay, keep the subs and the guys who stand around the White House looking cool. Shitcan the rest. All of it. Let our goddamned "allies" look out for themselves. The only "allies" we have are assholes like Pinochet and Diem and the shoes lady and all those other pieces of crap we create then prop up then give asylum after they get run out because of their death squads and secret police and basically crimes against humanity (hate to give miguel an opening but it's fact. The US is the biggest terrorist organization in the world today). As George Washington said, we don't need no goddamned allies. Do what is best for the US.

    And that doesn't mean "what is best for the fifty crooks on Wall Street." Washington meant the people of the United States.

    Fuck this shit and the horse it rode in on. We don't need to be Rome II. Tell Caligula to take his horse and his legions and split. Take the goddamned ignorant Congress with you. We'll find a new one, somewhere. The fucking insane asylum should be able to do a better job.

  20. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,046
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1387
    Likes (Received)
    881

    Default

    well this escalated quickly.

  21. Likes TeachMePlease, thunderskunk liked this post
  22. #36
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,599
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3052
    Likes (Received)
    479

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Shortly after they gave Will Rogers a medal for murdering 300 people ? If there were any justice in the US that son of a bitch would have been in prison for the rest of his life. You know that.

    How can anyone in the entire world admire the US when all we are is ignorant murdering thugs ?


    Oh. So all you care about is the fucking military ?

    Face it, janc -- our military is shit. They have done nothing of value for seventy-five years. You've got a DB-7 Aston driven by Alfred E Neuman. They are incompetent morons.

    Worse, they are ignorant, paid killers who have only ever been successful at beating up on the helpless. Stack them up against anyone dedicated and they aren't worth a can of beans. They have proven they can't actually defend the country against half a dozen rugheads with box cutters. They are stupid beyond belief and incompetent on top of it. Fuck it. They do vastly more harm than good. Get rid of them.

    Even worse are the buffoons in charge of the whole mess. What did that stupid shit general say after 9/11 ? "We just couldn't get there in time ! He was flying as fast as he could, 500 miles an hour !"

    Uhh, prop planes in WW II were faster than that. We paid millions ... no, make that trillions of dollars for this shit ?

    Fire them. They can dig ditches, if they can pass the IQ test.


    Because we have pissed away all our assets and talents on financial shysters and the brain-dead army.

    Time to change course.


    Absolutely ! There is no "mission" except harass the rest of the world. They do nothing of value. There IS no "vacuum" because this crap is all fantasies in some mouth-breather's head at the pentagon. They are almost a total waste.

    Okay, keep the subs and the guys who stand around the White House looking cool. Shitcan the rest. All of it. Let our goddamned "allies" look out for themselves. The only "allies" we have are assholes like Pinochet and Diem and the shoes lady and all those other pieces of crap we create then prop up then give asylum after they get run out because of their death squads and secret police and basically crimes against humanity (hate to give miguel an opening but it's fact. The US is the biggest terrorist organization in the world today). As George Washington said, we don't need no goddamned allies. Do what is best for the US.

    And that doesn't mean "what is best for the fifty crooks on Wall Street." Washington meant the people of the United States.

    Fuck this shit and the horse it rode in on. We don't need to be Rome II. Tell Caligula to take his horse and his legions and split. Take the goddamned ignorant Congress with you. We'll find a new one, somewhere. The fucking insane asylum should be able to do a better job.

    There is is no need to escalate this nor to even call it such. We can say hey no need to use such words like “killers” and other things. This is where things decline here most of the time.

    Very absolute statements about the motivation of the US. It supposes the US is somehow pure evil. Perhaps?

    I do not know or really Iam not sure who today might actually be pure evil yet I do not believe it is the US. Maybe some terrorist groups or toltalitarian governments who can actively commit horrible acts of violence could qualify.

    Some of us served (in the military) and also have loved ones who served and are serving. I do not call them killers! That is too much and sort of over the line really.

    I know the loved ones who serve and also others who are close and not family. There is no need to call them such things as killers and say they just need to be discarded. It is not very fair a evaluation .

    Excessive name calling and baiting is not a good thing to dump in this forum. Keep it professional or civil in the thread. This is very interesting if we do not end up having a showdown over it.

  23. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    1,937
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    898

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    We can say hey no need to use such words like “killers” and other things.
    I'm quoting Norman Schwarzkopf - "Our job is to kill people and blow stuff up." He should know.

    That's what armies do. They kill people and blow stuff up. That's what they are. Killers. No need to sugar-coat the truth.

    Very absolute statements about the motivation of the US. It supposes the US is somehow pure evil. Perhaps?
    On the basis of the evidence, an impartial person would come to that conclusion, yes. Through 250 years of history the US Army has been on the side of justice possibly twice.

    Accidents happen.

    I do not know or really Iam not sure who today might actually be pure evil yet I do not believe it is the US.
    You are entitled to your opinion. I do not believe the evidence supports your view but my God Certificate must have been lost in the mail

    Maybe some terrorist groups or toltalitarian governments who can actively commit horrible acts of violence could qualify.
    Such as the US Army ? Do you know any history, Spinit ?

    Shall I mention the school for torture at Fort Benning ?

    Some of us served (in the military) and also have loved ones who served and are serving. I do not call them killers! That is too much and sort of over the line really.
    I'm sorry if the truth hurts your feelings. But that is what their job is, by definition.

    Further, the very first thing they do is learn to follow orders. Immediately, without thinking. Oddly, that was not considered a good enough excuse at Nuremburg. But let's not let that stop us.

    I know the loved ones who serve and also others who are close and not family. There is no need to call them such things as killers and say they just need to be discarded. It is not very fair a evaluation .
    It is a very fair evaluation becasue that is their job definition.

    Excessive name calling and baiting is not a good thing to dump in this forum. Keep it professional or civil in the thread. This is very interesting if we do not end up having a showdown over it.
    Calling a flycutter a flycutter is not name calling. That's what it is. Soldiers are killers. That is their job.

    About very interesting, you've got to be kidding. Battleships ? Good idea. Let's put the cavalry back on horses, too. And maybe buy a few biplanes with Liberty engines.

    Hmm. Now that I think of it, a nice SPAD would have done just as well as that 500 mph F-16 on 9/11. Would have been a lot cheaper, too. Maybe let's bring them battleships back out of retirement. They do look cool and they are cheaper than missiles for shooting up peasant villages.

  24. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO USA
    Posts
    10,215
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    58
    Likes (Received)
    5695

    Default

    Fearless Leader's understanding of the navy...
    pic288374.jpg

  25. Likes Greg White liked this post
  26. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    14,057
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4552
    Likes (Received)
    6699

    Default

    Only a gun toting american could think that bigger artillary - a bigger gun is the answer.

    Rockets outpaced and out-ranged guns.

    Rockets should not cost anything like they do to make. Hell every kids - adults drone + smart phone is packed full of the sensors that were developed for missiles - rockets. Thats what bought the world these ic based gyro's, thumbnail sized GPS chips etc. This is all ex millatery kit - ex millatery tech thats just been refined in the public sector.

    If you can not slap a gps receiver a couple of servo's in a alu tube for less than 10K each your model shops are seriously screwing you.

    It should be totally possible to make a 1980's side winder grade weapon today for less than a 5 figure sum. launch em off the decks of anything that can get in range then walk em onto targets with a satellite. This is only slightly more advanced than modern Chinese toy factory production. This is not $100,000 a piece tech any more if your not paying off fat cats.

  27. Likes TeachMePlease liked this post
  28. #40
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,599
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3052
    Likes (Received)
    479

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    I'm quoting Norman Schwarzkopf - "Our job is to kill people and blow stuff up." He should know.

    That's what armies do. They kill people and blow stuff up. That's what they are. Killers. No need to sugar-coat the truth.


    On the basis of the evidence, an impartial person would come to that conclusion, yes. Through 250 years of history the US Army has been on the side of justice possibly twice.

    Accidents happen.


    You are entitled to your opinion. I do not believe the evidence supports your view but my God Certificate must have been lost in the mail


    Such as the US Army ? Do you know any history, Spinit ?

    Shall I mention the school for torture at Fort Benning ?


    I'm sorry if the truth hurts your feelings. But that is what their job is, by definition.

    Further, the very first thing they do is learn to follow orders. Immediately, without thinking. Oddly, that was not considered a good enough excuse at Nuremburg. But let's not let that stop us.


    It is a very fair evaluation becasue that is their job definition.


    Calling a flycutter a flycutter is not name calling. That's what it is. Soldiers are killers. That is their job.

    About very interesting, you've got to be kidding. Battleships ? Good idea. Let's put the cavalry back on horses, too. And maybe buy a few biplanes with Liberty engines.

    Hmm. Now that I think of it, a nice SPAD would have done just as well as that 500 mph F-16 on 9/11. Would have been a lot cheaper, too. Maybe let's bring them battleships back out of retirement. They do look cool and they are cheaper than missiles for shooting up peasant villages.
    This reply is very good without the chip on your shoulder. I do not know anyone who went to torture school at Fort Benning. I would imagine it would take a specific type of person.

    i do not know the techniques nor the frequency of their use. I prefer to call them soldiers not fn killers. If one wishes to make a point for pacifism then getting past such vitriol might be helpful. It is a common thing to see the use of more extreme language which is a choice to have a big discussion and argument issue. Such a course just raises cane.

    My father was not a fkin killer! Nor was my uncle or brothers. Tread with some respect for our soldiers it is not too much to ask EG. That is the problem with blanket condemnations they intentionally lump everyone into one catagory and such is not the whole reality.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •