Is China the New Japan - Page 2
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelrFn View Post
    And I wonder how many of them have natural immunity, Like I do
    That ain't the REAL problem.

    The REAL problem is the sewercidal Demoncraptic-Looter Party having natural immunity to good sense.

    Someone sold them the idea that Hell was a better deal - non-judgemental, no "accountability" - free drugs.. wotever - than Heaven and the trip could be paid for in six-star luxury ...with Other People's lives and money.

    Why, ever, would they let such a bargain escape the greedy grasp of their crippled little-heads?

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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    FYI this does not show as a real word.
    Does so. Legitimate operation to the root word.

    SeaMoss/Godfart was half as smart as he'd have some thinkle PEEP he is, he might learn another new word in another two years.

    You'd have to ken burnt-out acid-trippers gone Marxist-parasites out of being too lazy to keep up at sloth?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelrFn View Post
    Speaking of China, they just did a successful test of a nuclear-capable hypersonic gliding vehicle that traveled around the globe before cruising to the target.
    US intelligence and military officials are stunned and have no clue how they obtained the tech.

    China is denying what it is, saying it was a space test of some sort.
    Considering the US is dumping gobs of money into hypersonics development, why would we assume a country like China ISNT? I recently read the 2021-2022 DARPA fiscal budget for fun. They have a decent chunk of change going in hypersonics and many companies supporting the program. A country like China, they probably have a whole entire university or multiple companies doing hypersonics research.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwmachine View Post
    LOL! Swiss on the practice of revenge:

    "The first two thousand years of waiting are the easiest"?

    But they DID finally get even for Hannibal Barca not paying his road-tolls!

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    FYI this does not show as a real word.
    It was slang in the mid-1800's. The few definitions you will find are all over the map. I stole it from a play, it seemed appropriate. Common definition is not what termite came up with.

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmadness
    A country like China, they probably have a whole entire university or multiple companies doing hypersonics research.
    Only one ? You gotta think bigger

    I would not think companies tho, not their style. Not independent ones, anyhow. State-owned, could be.

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    If there is one in a million super smart person working on this new stuff, whatever stuff you want to talk about, that means china has 1,500 of them.
    Bill D

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    What is this a few decades late to the party?
    Japan made shit and mass sales and then upgraded.
    China is well on that route.
    In fact the no longer place for low cost production as they go through the same as Japan.
    Different in size so running long but the normal progression.
    Anyone who thinks other is so way behind the curve.
    Many other places lined up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    What is this a few decades late to the party?
    Japan made shit and mass sales and then upgraded.
    China is well on that route.
    In fact the no longer place for low cost production as they go through the same as Japan.
    Different in size so running long but the normal progression.
    Anyone who thinks other is so way behind the curve.
    Many other places lined up.
    hate to break up the prescription drug fueled pissing contest (mine sure make me pee a lot)
    but Bob is right-

    If you are talking about the progression from making toys out of old orange juice cans to making the most sophisticated electronics on earth, like Japan did, its certainly true that China is following down that path.
    50% of Nike products now come out of Vietnam, which is now the third largest importer of clothing to the US.
    The Chinese have intentionally been shifting low value added, low tech manufacturing out of China, and a lot is going to Vietnam, India, and various other countries, which, believe it or not, have LOWER wages than China these days.

    So, yeah, they want to be more like Japan, and less like a nation of sweat shops.

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    Did someone say,,, China?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelrFn View Post
    Speaking of China, they just did a successful test of a nuclear-capable hypersonic gliding vehicle that traveled around the globe before cruising to the target.
    US intelligence and military officials are stunned and have no clue how they obtained the tech.

    China is denying what it is, saying it was a space test of some sort.
    Here is a link to story on it:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    Did someone say,,, China?
    Barf. I need an antidote



    btw, it's not "china" anyhow. It's zhong guo, 'middle country'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter7 View Post
    The Irish pop-economist David McWilliams has a nice podcast discussing the striking parallels between China today, and Japan circa 1990....

    177 - Is China the new Japan? | The David McWilliams Podcast on Acast
    I don't see China as "The New Japan" - for a few reasons.
    The Japanese machine tool success was based not on predatory marketing or stolen technology, but on lessons WE taught them. They saw what our machine tool builders were doing wrong and improved on those short comings. They freely admitted this. Where the Monarch's, Cincinnati's and Pratt and Whitney's were focused on large customers, the Okuma's, Mori's and Mazak's made sure the smaller shops were taken care of. The rest fell into place.

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    "Where the Monarch's, Cincinnati's and Pratt and Whitney's were focused on large customers" Wonder what contributed to Japan's emergence more. Us helping them or the corporate raiding of the 1970s/1980s and lack attention to research and technology of U.S. companies?

    A number of books written about the demise of great machine tool companies paint a pretty grim management picture. Some might say the flow of money to China for goods enables them to develop and outproduce most of what's left of U.S. companies.

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    Machine tools are, in the bigger scheme of things, a pretty small market. The bigger focus by the Chinese government, and, hence, Chinese industry, is on things like space flight, solar energy, automobile manufacturing, super computers, AI- stuff that has much bigger markets and profits.

    That said, Dalian is currently the largest lathe maker on earth. Not excellent lathes, but they make lots of em, and sell em.

    Anyang is the largest press and hammer maker on earth.
    Again, nowhere near as sophisticated as the japanese servo drive presses, but Anyang sells more, and makes more money.
    And their 400 ton CNC hydraulic closed die presses are actually more sophisticated than any 80 year old chambersburg was.
    Probably not as well made- but if there still were american companies making machines like this, they would cost 5 or 10 times as much.
    CNC Forging Hammer PLC controll hitting energy, program forging process
    The only mainland Chinese machine in my shop is a now 20 year old Anyang forging hammer, bought new. Great machine for the money, not as good as an american one that cost 20 times as much, 40 years ago.

    If the only chinese machines you see are grizzly, you get a distorted view of the scale of their industrial machinery producers.
    They make lots and lots of mid range tools, and sell them all over the world.

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    I remember way back in trade school, our metrology teacher told us a story of how an American invented a primer that stuck to metal better than anything on the market, and paint stuck to it better than anything on the market and he took his patented invention to each of the big three, who all turned it down, then he took it to Toyota, who bought it, now every car company in the world uses it. Now, I cant verify if this story is true or not, but if so, maybe Japans past automotive success has a lot to with USA company's own stupidity back then
    Last edited by SteelrFn; 10-19-2021 at 02:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by standardparts View Post
    "Where the Monarch's, Cincinnati's and Pratt and Whitney's were focused on large customers" Wonder what contributed to Japan's emergence more. Us helping them or the corporate raiding of the 1970s/1980s and lack attention to research and technology of U.S. companies?

    A number of books written about the demise of great machine tool companies paint a pretty grim management picture. Some might say the flow of money to China for goods enables them to develop and outproduce most of what's left of U.S. companies.
    50/50 on that. We helped them, then US tool builders began making one dumb mistake and fool hardy move after another.
    As far as China goes, it's not just the flow of money, it's the technology they steal as well as get given freely by administrations who are a little too eager. That hypersonic missile they just tested? That's a Boeing Wave Rider.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DouglasJRizzo View Post
    I don't see China as "The New Japan" - for a few reasons.
    The Japanese machine tool success was based not on predatory marketing or stolen technology, but on lessons WE taught them.
    Jesus, Douglas ... the op's article, btw, is just another "sky is falling" bunch of speculative crap and not about this subject at all but ...

    First off, if anything, the Japs were even more active in the "technology stealing" department than China has been. All the big builders had joint ventures which the Japs skipped out on. The Niigatas were direct ripoffs of their j/v partner Sundstrand. They had government support of non-profitable industries for decades through MITI. They did pretty much exactly what you claim China does.

    And they did it with the full support of the US government, which decided we were going to be big in finance instead of manufacturing. They sold us out to Wall Street.

    "Predatory marketing" has me confused. You think offering items at a lower price is predatory ? You better bury that "free market" theology, there is nothing in the world that the big guys play at that isn't supported in one way or another by a government. Everywhere. It's just us little guys who are stupid enough to fall for that crap ... and get squoze to death as a result.

    "Stolen technology" ... like what ? Ball screws ? Linear guides ? Cast iron ? Industrial computers ? C'mon, this stuff is all way more than fifty years old. What's next, they "stole" the wheel ? Get serious.

    It's fine to like your own team - I'm a Ford guy myself, think Chevvies are clunky - but you're a fool if you believe all the propaganda everyone's marketing department puts out. You're just kidding yourself, and that doesn't end well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Jesus, Douglas ... the op's article, btw, is just another "sky is falling" bunch of speculative crap and not about this subject at all but ...

    First off, if anything, the Japs were even more active in the "technology stealing" department than China has been. All the big builders had joint ventures which the Japs skipped out on. The Niigatas were direct ripoffs of their j/v partner Sundstrand. They had government support of non-profitable industries for decades through MITI. They did pretty much exactly what you claim China does.

    And they did it with the full support of the US government, which decided we were going to be big in finance instead of manufacturing. They sold us out to Wall Street.

    "Predatory marketing" has me confused. You think offering items at a lower price is predatory ? You better bury that "free market" theology, there is nothing in the world that the big guys play at that isn't supported in one way or another by a government. Everywhere. It's just us little guys who are stupid enough to fall for that crap ... and get squoze to death as a result.

    "Stolen technology" ... like what ? Ball screws ? Linear guides ? Cast iron ? Industrial computers ? C'mon, this stuff is all way more than fifty years old. What's next, they "stole" the wheel ? Get serious.

    It's fine to like your own team - I'm a Ford guy myself, think Chevvies are clunky - but you're a fool if you believe all the propaganda everyone's marketing department puts out. You're just kidding yourself, and that doesn't end well.
    Relax.
    Take a deep breath. Or three.
    I know what the op's article was on, I pinpointed my reply on the machine tool industry.

    Stolen technology - you think China invented CNC controllers? You don't think they reverse engineered them? Or outright stole the technology?
    You think they developed that hypersonic cruise missile all by their lonesome? Uh-uh.
    Predatory marketing, as in selling things way below cost because you're using slave labor.
    Government support of research in Japan is not robbing American technology, but having Chinese "students" who make off with proprietary information, is.

    As far as "selling us out to Wall Street" that's only a little bit of the equation. American MTB's were cashing out, going for short term gains rather than long term. It didn't end well.

    As far as "free market" goes, there's a difference between a free market and a stacked one.

  21. #39
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    What happened in Japan.


    Quantum Publishers Book Shop

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon73 View Post
    What happened in Japan.


    Quantum Publishers Book Shop
    What crafty acts do you have here Demon?

    On a high note for everyone this song;
    Zac Brown Band - The Comeback (Lyrics) - YouTube


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