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  1. #41
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    I was just reading a book called "The Machine Tool Industry from 1900-1950" and in it he is talking about how hard it was to find good employees around 1900- and he says that the percentage of people who graduated from high school in the last decade of the 19th century was LESS THAN 3%!!!!

    So sure, the tests were harder then, but we still educate a LOT more people today to higher standards.
    80% of the people back then never even made it to high school.

  2. #42
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    As I see it, the education today exceeds the education way back then just because we know more now so can teach more.

    The problem is, we are way way way behind on potential. This continual lowering of standards to be politically correct etc. is going to come back and bite us big time.

    As someone else pointed out in here, this no child left behind is keeping talented kids from advancing to their full potential.

  3. #43
    art_deco_machine Guest

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    So sure, the tests were harder then, but we still educate a LOT more people today to higher standards.
    80% of the people back then never even made it to high school.
    An eighth grade education in 1900 was equivalent to first or second year college today. So, you got a piece of paper that says you graduated. So what? Doesn't prove a thing.
    A's and B's given to absent students.

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    I dont believe an 8th grade education in 1900 was equivalent to first or second year college today.
    Now I am old, but not that old.
    I went to grade school in the early 60's, and I have a kid in grade school today.
    When I compare what he is being taught today, versus what I studied in the 60's- well there is no comparison- they make kids do more today, by far. Now maybe 1900 was some fabled year of great enlightenment, but I kinda doubt it.

    I have met a lot of guys who were in school in the 20's and 30's and they didnt read much, didnt know much history, and couldnt even dream of doing calculus, or high level chemistry, or biology.

    Not every school today is great- a lot are crappy, but I have two kids in school right now, and I know what they are studying, and its damn sure a lot more advanced than the list of stuff from 1900.

    My 10th grader just took the AP American History test a week or so ago, and the stuff he had to know for that ONE test was about equivalent to those lists I have seen about "the good old days".

    My 6th grader is reading the Illiad and the Odyessy, and tieing it into maps of greece, history, and lots more.

    There may be schools that give A's for being absent, but my kids sure dont go to em. If your kids do, then there is something wrong with your school board- and if I lived there, I would be at the school board meetings raising hell.

    But curiously enough, most of these outrageous stories we hear always happen to somebody else.

  5. #45
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    History is much harder now than it was in 1900 - hell, there's 106 more years of it!

  6. #46
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    A lot more is known about history today.. the media is everywhere, broadcasting 1000's of channels of information... massive content..

    Kids know more today - just in passing without trying..

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    No values in school today.

  8. #48
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    This tpoic started out as Chinese Cultural Insight. "Eating bitter" is a hard line but sometimes the hard line is necessary.

    Culture is made in many places, not just in school. If we want to compare American and Chinese cultures, we have to compare the whole spectrum of each.

    Let's just assume that American schools are good enough. Now, what are the influences on our people that make us different from the average Chinese who is working in manufacturing in China.

    Yes, I am closing down the area of comparison but it is necessary in order to comapre like with like as closely as we can with the two differet cultures.

    While we are at it. we can comapare the culture of the WW II generation in the USA with the present one(s) here. Is the WW II generation closer in vlaues to the present Chinese manufacturing worker's culture today?

    Lastly, Is the upcoming generation in China veerng away from their parent's "eating bitter" philosophy due to the exposure to Western culture through what they experience in their modern cities and through the media and the Internet?

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    I think it's pretty tough for most of us to make that comparison with the chinese workers, since our information is second or third hand at best.

    If you're not intimately connected to each, how can one make a valid comparison?

  10. #50
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    rj:

    Well, we know something about the WW II generation in the USA. If you were 18 to 22 in 1941, then you spent the previous 10 years of your life during the Great Depression. Even if your family was average, you knew some amout of hardship, if your family was poor then you knew about "the hunger" mentioned above.

    If you went into the service then you knew war, death and destruction. If you didn't go, then you knew long hours of endless toil on the home front in just about any occupation.

    At home, you were subject to price controls, rationing, shortages, government cencorship and propaganda.

    After the war was over, you still could be subject to shortages of materials and some consumer goods. You could also get laid low or die from diseases that are quickly treatable or entirely preventable today.

    By the time you were 30, you were part of the greatest expansion of the US economy that there ever has been. Life got real good in a hurry. Trade and industry boomed. Wages were good and leisure time was plentiful.

    Now, if they will, would our good mdmbers from China compare their experiences today with the experiences of that generation. I think there will be a lot of similarities. I think there will be a lot of shared values.

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    Knowing more is no replacement for Wisdom or Values. It matters, too.... Values are not taught as much now, that is for sure....

    --jerry

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    JimK... I was 11 when WWII ended, and experienced a little of what you speak. Enumerating those conditions, however, does little to convey the "feel" of what it's like.

    Just like enumerating the present conditions in China cannot give us a feel for what it's like.

    IMHO you must actually have lived in both countries to make the kind of comparison you seek. We can speculate, and imagine, but we cannot *know*. You have to walk a mile in the other's moccasins for that.

    I had heard a lot about the conditions in the Philippines before travelling there. I didn't really know what it was like until I actually experienced it.

  13. #53
    art_deco_machine Guest

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    Knowing more is no replacement for Wisdom or Values. It matters, too.... Values are not taught as much now, that is for sure....
    Yeah, I am sure that those guys at Enron had good grades in accounting and probably a diploma from a pretigious college. Just like the guys at WorldCom.

  14. #54
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    rj:

    We are not talking science here. A "feel" or a best guess estmate is all that we can get.

    My main idea is to grope towards whatever understanding of or commonality with two different cultures that is at all possible.

    Of course any insight will be hazy. But from personal experience I know that even the haziest (in)sight is better than total blindness.

    I am betting that although the Chinese and the Americans have vastly different cultural and historical backgrounds they both share human nature and in fact are quite similar to each other.

  15. #55
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    I am betting that although the Chinese and the Americans have vastly different cultural and historical backgrounds they both share human nature and in fact are quite similar to each other.
    I will agree 100% with this one.

    Given all the variables tho, I wouldn't even be able to make a good guess at an answer for you. I hope someone else can. [img]smile.gif[/img]


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