Cost of not disconnecting a scrap vehicle's battery...

Milland · Dec 17, 2021

NTSB: Used Vehicle Battery Caused Weeklong Cargo Ship Fire | IMPO

These cars were due to go overseas to be scrapped, but a small error in securing a battery led to a bit of a problem. Now the ship is scrap too...

Moral of the story: It's all Tesla's fault! [Ok, not this time]. Be careful when storing or getting rid of old batteries.

CAMasochism · Dec 17, 2021

This is yet another problem that I don't see addressed by those pushing for a full immediate switch to electric vehicles. What do we do with these old batteries?

You know, other than our current standard of shipping them off to dump on poor countries to make it their problem.

EmGo · Dec 17, 2021

CAMasochism said:
This is yet another problem that I don't see addressed by those pushing for a full immediate switch to electric vehicles. What do we do with these old batteries?

Recycle them, just like people already do with lead-acid batteries. Same thing could have happened if the scrap yard left the tank full of gas and it leaked into the hold and there was a spark, too. Energy is energy.

dalmatiangirl61 · Dec 17, 2021

No mention of type of vehicle, or battery, so guessing it was just a plain car battery. What kind of lame scrapyard does not remove the batteries?

Edit: I did get a Prius battery to play with for free from a scrapyard a few years ago, scrapyard owner was worried his crew would get hurt removing it, it had a "key" that disconnects battery before you touch the terminals.

Milland · Dec 17, 2021

dalmatiangirl61 said:
No mention of type of vehicle, or battery, so guessing it was just a plain car battery. What kind of lame scrapyard does not remove the batteries?

Edit: I did get a Prius battery to play with for free from a scrapyard a few years ago, scrapyard owner was worried his crew would get hurt removing it, it had a "key" that disconnects battery before you touch the terminals.

I'm 99.9% sure it was a regular car battery, but don't have proof. Short one of those with a decent charge and you can get a good fire going if luck runs out.

Neato on getting the Prius battery. Did you hook it up to a DeWalt cordless drill for infinite runtime?

Milland · Dec 17, 2021

EmanuelGoldstein said:
Recycle them, just like people already do with lead-acid batteries. Same thing could have happened if the scrap yard left the tank full of gas and it leaked into the hold and there was a spark, too. Energy is energy.

There's a lot of incentive to recycle lithium batteries, but I'd don't think the technology is really there yet for mass recovery. It may also take an industry agreement on battery chemistry and "design for de-manufacture" to make this a reality.

EmGo · Dec 17, 2021

Milland said:
There's a lot of incentive to recycle lithium batteries, but I'd don't think the technology is really there yet for mass recovery.

I was thinking of "take them apart and do something else with them" recycling, like they do to car tires now, not "make into a new battery" recycling ... but the second one would be way better, for sure.

PeteM · Dec 17, 2021

CAMasochism said:
This is yet another problem that I don't see addressed by those pushing for a full immediate switch to electric vehicles. What do we do with these old batteries? . . .

Study: Recycled Lithium Batteries as Good as Newly Mined - IEEE Spectrum

CITIZEN F16 · Dec 17, 2021

I used to scrounge junk yards for parts ages ago when restoring cars for myself or helping friends. At the many places I went the batteries were pulled and the fluid drained before the car was put out to be cannibalized.

idacal · Dec 17, 2021

had a pair of 8d batterys blow up we we were attempting to jump start a drill truck saw a lit flame start on the terminal my brother and I took off running. had chunks of battery on the roof, in the neighbors yard, acid all over the paint. it was great fun. I dont use a welder to jump start anymore
also had 31 series explode no abuse just on a long crank, cold morning truck wouldn't start, then boom. I never did figure out why that one blew

PeteM · Dec 17, 2021

idacal said:
. . .I dont use a welder to jump start anymore
also had 31 series explode no abuse just on a long crank, cold morning truck wouldn't start, then boom. I never did figure out why that one blew

Charging a lead-acid battery produces hydrogen. Maybe hydrogen as well from draining it down???

crickets · Dec 17, 2021

Milland said:
NTSB: Used Vehicle Battery Caused Weeklong Cargo Ship Fire | IMPO

These cars were due to go overseas to be scrapped, but a small error in securing a battery led to a bit of a problem. Now the ship is scrap too...

Moral of the story: It's all Tesla's fault! [Ok, not this time]. Be careful when storing or getting rid of old batteries.

Where does it say vehicles were to be scrapped ? Used vehicles from developed countries are often sold in large quantities to the developing countries.

EmGo · Dec 17, 2021

crickets said:
Where does it say vehicles were to be scrapped ?

They weren't, they were going to west africa. But procedures developed from a previous fire were not followed. In fact, reads like no procedures were followed ... hope the insurance doesn't pay for it. More in-depth article

https://www.marinelink.com/news/car-battery-triggered-fire-board-hegh-492953

CarbideBob · Dec 17, 2021

Just wait.
Electric cars are going to pose a whole new problem for firefighters.
Richard Hammond Crashes A $1 Million Rimac Concept One | The Grand Tour - YouTube
Watch starting at 8:00. It sure is fast.
Reportedly burned for 5 days as the fire was put out and then started back up later.
Much work is going into batteries that don't do this but not solved yet.
EV fires are tough to fight and pose new hazards. Inside the race to get responders ready. - YouTube
Bob

EmGo · Dec 17, 2021

Ship was apparently leased, was a conventional car, Bob. Marine report has more info. But the benefit here is learning that Heogh Autocarriers can do machinery and breakbulk as well. There's another option instead of flat racks and expensive export packing and deck cargo.

CarbideBob · Dec 17, 2021

EmanuelGoldstein said:
..., was a conventional car, Bob.

I know that but a whole new world is coming and fast.
So often we do think about these things until too late.
Lite a gasoline car on fire and the normal. These are different and will take over a lot of the normal ICE based fleet.
A car is one thing. Long haul big trucks are going to have much bigger batteries.

This one a fluke. Know a guy with a car repair shop and a very expensive older car lit up at night for no reason.
They said it was a short in old wiring. Took out his building and 10 other cars so this not just in shipping.
The guy does exotics and normal. Are you going to disconnect the battery on all when not being worked on if you own a car shop?
My old cars not driven but on trickle charge so that they will fire and move that old gas. Should I pull one cable in fear of rotted wires?

EmGo · Dec 17, 2021

CarbideBob said:
Lite a gasoline car on fire and the normal.

Couldn't find a shot of a Pinto or an ABC pickup, this'll have to do

p.s. Pintos got a bum rap. If you park just over the crest of a hill, in the fast lane not the median, and don't put out any kind of warning, well ... bad stuff can happen.

crickets · Dec 17, 2021

CarbideBob said:
Just wait.
Electric cars are going to pose a whole new problem for firefighters.
Richard Hammond Crashes A $1 Million Rimac Concept One | The Grand Tour - YouTube
Watch starting at 8:00. It sure is fast.
Reportedly burned for 5 days as the fire was put out and then started back up later.
Much work is going into batteries that don't do this but not solved yet.
EV fires are tough to fight and pose new hazards. Inside the race to get responders ready. - YouTube
Bob

It is a solved problem though not without a cost - LFP cells will not burn like NMC and NCA ones, but have a lower energy density.

crickets · Dec 17, 2021

CarbideBob said:
I know that but a whole new world is coming and fast.
So often we do think about these things until too late.
Lite a gasoline car on fire and the normal. These are different and will take over a lot of the normal ICE based fleet.
A car is one thing. Long haul big trucks are going to have much bigger batteries.

This one a fluke. Know a guy with a car repair shop and a very expensive older car lit up at night for no reason.
They said it was a short in old wiring. Took out his building and 10 other cars so this not just in shipping.
The guy does exotics and normal. Are you going to disconnect the battery on all when not being worked on if you own a car shop?
My old cars not driven but on trickle charge so that they will fire and move that old gas. Should I pull one cable in fear of rotted wires?

EV batteries in production vehicles are designed as self-contained units. Contactors (some people call them solenoids) are located within the same enclosure with the battery and disconnect high voltage output when inactive. The only times there is high voltage in the vehicle outside of the battery enclosure is when onboard computer or a charging system demanded for the battery management to activate HV output. Additionally that output is current-controlled by the Battery Management AND is fused, all inside the same box.

Most of the problems surrounding EV battery fires stem from the thermal runaway caused either by a manufacturing defect (like in the case of Chevy Bolt), or a mechanical impact. Cells heat up to critical temperatures, gassifying the flamable electrolyte, and go up in flames until all of the electrolyte burns out. Naturally, non-flamable electrolytes would not be producing such issues. LFP cells are quite safe in that regard, and more exotic LTO cells are even better, but both have reduced capacity in comparison to more common NMC and Tesla's NCA cells. LFPs are now becoming more common in lower range vehicles, including Tesla's standard range Model 3, and LTOs were used in some Japanese hybrids.

Trueturning · Dec 17, 2021

CAMasochism said:
This is yet another problem that I don't see addressed by those pushing for a full immediate switch to electric vehicles. What do we do with these old batteries?

You know, other than our current standard of shipping them off to dump on poor countries to make it their problem.

Lol someone in a article said rocket the radioactive stuff into space that is Nuclear material waste from Nuclear energy. Turns out making them go into the sun requires more fuel and expense so they say just launch it up and away. Don’t think the batteries would be cost effective to do that.

Space factories may be the future some insist. I have heard that before just like I heard electric cars would bring down one of the big ICE companies a while back. Guess they moved into the future a ways once again.

Cost of not disconnecting a scrap vehicle's battery...

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