Thread: Covid 19 Vaccine - Pro / Anti

Originally Posted by Milland

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...81f_story.html

Seems to be showing a lesser antibody response than either of the US-affiliated jabs, and less than usually seen in recovered Covid-19 victims. Not good news, but there's other CN vaccines in trial or in use, hopefully they're showing more promise.

I can't put much faith in this. I could easily believe the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are more effective, they are newer technology and should be. But this report is, as usual for Wapo, not-so-subtly twisted.

A single dishonesty that leaped out at me was the claim that the Sinovac trials had 144 and 600 participants. Sorry, but I know they started with the army and sinovac employees, then expanded to students going overseas, and are now giving them to the general public in Shanghai. (Have to come up with a bit of an excuse but if you are an old fart, that's easy.) Cost was $25 but hmm, they may indeed charge again for the second shot. Damn. This is way more than 744 people.

I read (this could be off as well, have to credit Mr Trump with noting that press accuracy these days SUCKS) that the Pfizer and Moderna tests were run on very small populations. Things can easily be way off when dealing with a tiny number of people - look at the San Marino stats, three people sick and they go off to the moon. So that number will be suspect in future as well.

Then another thing that makes the hair stand up is, "Participants ranged in age from 18 to 59 and were recruited from a single county of China’s southern Jiangsu province."

Excuse me you fucking dipshit ?! Jiangsu is above yangtse river. That's the dividing line, like Mason-Dixon. Above is north, below is south. Jiangsu is a northern province. (And besides that, I happen to know they are giving these shots at Huashan Hospital in Jing'An, and I am more than 59, and the army is not restricted to jiangsu and sinovac where the employees took the vaccine is a beijing company and even an earlier report in Wapo itself talked about people in shaoxing, which is zhejiang (a real southern province), getting shots weeks earlier, so .... consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds but ... ?)

If the guy can't get basic geography or arithmetic right, hard to trust him on more complex issues.

No surprise if the Moderna / Pfizer vaccines work better, but if this one works good enough, it'll be fine. Again, it's a matter of statistics, not individual health outcomes.

I just wish some of the non-poke-you vaccines had come out sooner. It'd be kinda fun to chop it up on the desk and do an Al Pacino imitation. And I hate needles

#161 EG
Thank you for taking [156] Pravda apart.
In this minor outlying island WaPo expects you to pay for the privilege!

#146 digger doug
"did they mistake him for a Mink ?"
Best PM laugh since ?

Originally Posted by ManicMetalBasher

#161 EG
Thank you for taking [156] Pravda apart.
In this minor outlying island WaPo expects you to pay for the privilege!

Here's a secret - turn off javascript

If you're using fireflop, enter " about:config " into the url box, then " javascript.enabled " and toggle it off. Wapo will now work fine ... (probably just blew the secret and now they'll change but who cares, it's kind of an annoying site anyhow). Remember to turn back on when you're done or a lot of other sites will get pissy. Stupid internet

We have been here before:
1979? 60 Minutes story on the 1976 swine flu and the vax/flue shot for it, watching the story it sure seems familiar.

Deja Vu: The Swine Flu Vaccination Fraud of 1976 - YouTube

Originally Posted by Rob F.

We have been here before:
1979? 60 Minutes story on the 1976 swine flu and the vax/flue shot for it, watching the story it sure seems familiar.

Deja Vu: The Swine Flu Vaccination Fraud of 1976 - YouTube

44 years ago, policies and vaccine development processes were not what they are now.

44 years ago, understanding of the spread of viruses and contagion variables per virus were not what they are now.

44 years ago, analytical tools to capture virus data and formulate vaccines were not what they are now.

44 years ago, test procedures and safety reviews are not what they are now.

Shall I go on?

Yes, 44 years ago they borked things up.

Now, today, for this pandemic we have vastly more information. We have international cooperation on data, virus makeup, and vaccine creation.

Now, today, we have confirmation of vast amounts of people being injured or dying (worldwide, more than 1.3M dead, over 56M ill):

Coronavirus Update (Live): 56,285,081 Cases and 1,350,122 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Now, today, we have safety and efficacy trials to ensure vaccine safety, as best as can be done. Look at trials being halted for the least number of anomalous illness reports:

Johnson & Johnson Covid-19 vaccine study paused due to illness

And now, today we have huge increases in of Covid-19 outbreaks in America, all over, but especially in areas with a cavalier attitude towards taking the virus seriously. Texas, North Dakota, much of the central part of the country. You know, trumpistan.

So now we have some solid vaccine candidates. I'm getting to the point of being fine if some don't want them - sure, make that decision for yourself.

But for sure you will not make it for me.

Originally Posted by Milland

Shall I go on?

Sorry. But no. I guess I prefer to deal with reality rather than fantasy, and have little patience with those who can't handle the truth.

[insert gif from appropriate movie here]

Originally Posted by Milland

I guess I prefer to deal with reality rather than fantasy, and have little patience with those who can't handle the truth.

If one does not like or trust the vaccines coming it is simple, do not get it.
Stay at home and away from the public, friends or family.
No one will take away your right to be a hermit,... yet if you want to interact with people one needs to think not only about you but also about them.
The one or two shots in the arm, just for you or also for others you meet?
One can be symptom free and still spread and from that not so good may happen. Answer the question of why the choice at the pearly gates.
Bob

RE: QT: [The list price for coronavirus antibody tests range from $35 and $300 at hospitals that provide their charges. Most charge less than $150. The analysis sought to …]

If a person has the antibodies from having a mild case of CV they don't need the vaccine.

95% being protected with taking the vaccine seems very good..USA testing likely proves it is a safe vaccine.

I knew a fellow who would have to go on dialysis and he chose to not do so and died. likely he would have lasted a good number of years with wasting a couple/few hours a week for treatment.

Originally Posted by Hodge

Beats the hell out of Russia cheering cause you picked the right guy for them......

Still with the Russia thing...
Dont let facts get in the way.

Originally Posted by toolsteel

Still with the Russia thing...
Dont let facts get in the way.

We let facts guide the way.

Try it some time...

Originally Posted by Milland

We let facts guide the way.

Try it some time...

It's probably true, but I don't know why some people get their panties in a twist over it. The US has been meddling in elections for a hundred years. And if your people are so stupid that a bunch of tweeter posts can determie an election, then democracy isn't such a good idea after all.

It's an easy choice if you live in the glorious land of New York.
Komrade Cumo has said "no soup for you"....whilst he probably got his injections by now.

So, one recipe is stored at -650f, how to inject ? It comes frozen as a needle and they just ram it in ?
And the other flavor is (2) parts ? Does it harden once injected ?

Originally Posted by Dualkit

I see that often, I would think the person is more likely a germophobe.

Comment was in response to driving with mask on.

I do it often enough that I could be one that you saw.

Thing is, I forget it's there.

Originally Posted by digger doug

It's an easy choice if you live in the glorious land of New York.
Komrade Cumo has said "no soup for you"....whilst he probably got his injections by now.

So, one recipe is stored at -650f, how to inject ? It comes frozen as a needle and they just ram it in ?
And the other flavor is (2) parts ? Does it harden once injected ?

All vaccines have storage requirements...doesn't mean they have to be administered at that temp...they'll have a period of time once thawed to administer.

Same thing for the 2 parts...mixing drugs, reconstitution, etc...it's all pretty normal. Reconstituted drugs will have a "use by" date that is measured post mixing. A lot of cephalosporin antibiotics are shipped dry, in a sterile vial, that you aseptically add water to, mix, then administer. Same for chemo drugs. Some anesthetics.

Originally Posted by digger doug

It's an easy choice if you live in the glorious land of New York.
Komrade Cumo has said "no soup for you"....whilst he probably got his injections by now.

So, one recipe is stored at -650f, how to inject ? It comes frozen as a needle and they just ram it in ?
And the other flavor is (2) parts ? Does it harden once injected ?

I'm curious how it improves your quality of life to push ignorance.

Did that work on the professional side? Were customers impressed when you told them you knew nothing, and would ruin their projects if you worked on them?

Originally Posted by g-coder05

I, as well as the rest of our town of 63,000 had the vaccine back in March just before the USFDA and PFDA came in and shut down the clinic and confiscated the materials. There is a local Filipino/American MD here that has several antiviral patents in USA that was giving the injections out to the town as well as the surrounding towns.

Normally i'm not on the antivirus bandwagon but this fella developed and HIV vaccine that had a 9 out of 10 success rate (Until the FDA shut him down). So I grabbed up the girlfriends and headed out to a rice patty with several Kubo huts set up and got the injection. The lines were long and the SE Asian sun in March was brutal but nothing compared to what I was fixing to go through! Apparently some of the ingredients in the injection are Dexamethasone and Procaine as well as some other steroids.

Whew, You guys ever see the T shirts that say "I'm not loud, I'm Filipino"? I've got 7 live in girlfriends that are now roided out during a time when leaving the house required a military pass. Absolutely miserable, Every house in the Philippines has a videoke machine and for two days I endured non stop shrill screaming through an amplification system that would rival a Led Zeppelin concert. Whatever was in that injection had the whole town running around like they had spent the day at a cartel wedding in Columbia. I'm a big guy and even I was dropping 1/2 mg Xanax tablets in Tequila shots just to get off that rush. The side effects for the first day and a half were absolutely horrible.

But..... here we are 8 months later and out of 63,000 residents we had 52 cases which 48 recovered with one dead and the rest are still recovering. I think the doc had it right and the big pharma didn't like it. I wonder how many cities this size in USA have these kind of stats?

The old PM forum would not have let this post go unnoticed.

Originally Posted by AARONT

Pro vaccine once they have a better understanding of it and the side effects. I'm not buying the 90% effectiveness yet. The flu vaccine is supposed to be 60% effective or something along those lines. I don't pretend to understand epidemiology, but it doesn't seem possible to me.

I don't pretend to understand quantum physics, but I've got no problem trusting the people that post their work for the public to review once a group of like minded professionals come to the same conclusions.

Because that's how science works. My opinion doesn't mean jack shit, up until the point that I show that the original publishers work is wrong.

Originally Posted by snowman

The old PM forum would not have let this post go unnoticed.

I'm curious why ? I thought it was accurate and funny, and an interesting bit of information re: vaccines ?

About AARONT's remark, I'd have to agree, 90% seems quite optimistic, those were very early results on a small number of subjects in a politically-charged time, from the people who developed the vaccine. Doesn't mean you are promoting ignorance to be a little skeptical of very early results, which is also "what science is".