Detroit, Bankrupt

Whats everyones opinion about this?
Blame the people, the Gov. , economy?
I think they should elect Ted Nugent for Mayor, that will fix things.

Do you really want an answer or a screaming match. Sprawling city, very very sprawling. Detroit is something like 120 square miles with little central nexus. The big three build factories all over Detroit and assembly plants. The big three now outsource close to everything, going for the cheapest maker with a certain set of credentials. The city was far too sprawling to densify, all efforts to do this is very very costly. Add this together with a neglectful state and federal government and little ability to add to their tax base. Not sure what people were expecting. Politicians often do what is easy instead of what is best.

A very old city, totally dependent on one industry, a workforce that is not highly educated.
Who wants a 80 year old house, not so many jobs now for people who never made it past 6th grade.
But things worked for a long time and why change when you are fat, dumb, and happy?

One should realize that the city is not the greater Detroit area.
You do not want to go into the very old run-down areas for a walk at night but go outside 20-30 miles and it's a bit different.
The inner city was built a long time ago, as such it is a low income (read almost free) housing area.
This attracts a not so nice grouping of people.
Perhaps the blame belongs to the Ford's and Chrysler's for building a one horse town.

I've seen Ted every year once or twice for the past 39 years, love his music, and like to hear his rants but I don't think I could vote for him.
A bit radical on some viewpoints. He is a very interesting character.

Go one hour north and you'll find another city that suffered the same fate, just a smaller scale version and another one 40 minutes farther up 75.
Bob

A foreigner's point of view? It was on TV news a couple of days ago and the conclusion by the Danish reporter in Chicago was that it wasn't the fault of any government past or present. His opinion was that each state has enough autonomy to make or solve their own problems.

A city like New York seemed to be able to get out of the mess they were in a few years ago and Chicago is far from the only city in the US about to go bankrupt.

Would any mayor get elected if he publically said he'd do what had to be done? Would he be reelected if he did what had to be done? It'lltake a brave man or woman to straighten Things up and demonstrations would be widespread. This is one of the few times I feel sorry for politicians.

Gordon

I don't think there's very many places that aren't borderline bankrupt and headed well that way soon with the infrastructure falling apart and no $ to replace it, fixing time is over.
At some point its easier to just let it all fall apart and go start new elsewhere, people like new stuff, more vibrant, brings more $.

Gordon B. Clarke said:

A foreigner's point of view? It was on TV news a couple of days ago and the conclusion by the Danish reporter in Chicago was that it wasn't the fault of any government past or present. His opinion was that each state has enough autonomy to make or solve their own problems.

A city like New York seemed to be able to get out of the mess they were in a few years ago and Chicago is far from the only city in the US about to go bankrupt.

Would any mayor get elected if he publically said he'd do what had to be done? Would he be reelected if he did what had to be done? It'lltake a brave man or woman to straighten Things up and demonstrations would be widespread. This is one of the few times I feel sorry for politicians.

Gordon

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I don't think New York re-invented itself. It happened to be the financial capital when the US government decided that pensions method of investment weren't a good idea and move towards 401K's. People didn't care so much of the return as the immediate tax break. The massive change enabled the financial companies to employ a few thousand in 1960's to the millions today. Maybe someday in the future this will change again and the money won't flow into NY as it does today.

The U.S. finance industry comprised only 10% of total non-farm business profits in 1947, but it grew to 50% by 2010.[2] Over the same period, finance industry income as a proportion of GDP rose from 2.5% to 7.5%, and the finance industry's proportion of all corporate income rose from 10% to 20%. The mean earnings per employee hour in finance relative to all other sectors has closely mirrored the share of total U.S. income earned by the top 1% income earners since 1930. The mean salary in New York City's finance industry rose from $80,000 in 1981 to $360,000 in 2011, while average New York City salaries rose from $40,000 to $70,000. In 1988, there were about 12,500 U.S. banks with less than $300 million in deposits, and about 900 with more deposits, but by 2012, there were only 4,200 banks with less than $300 million in deposits in the U.S., and over 1,800 with more.[3]

Seems like there's some truth in all these answers but it is worth noting that it's a state and a city that has been governed by the Democrat party for a REAL LONG time. Not a group of people well known for fiscal responsibility. And, like California, generous pension plans get more expensive as more and more people retire and they take a big bite out of a city or company budget.

Even worse, union labor makes cars too expensive to compete in the current world market. They had no choice but to outsource, like it or not. When you're paying someone something like $30/hr for a low skilled, repetitive job you can't expect to be able to hold costs down very well.

I guess nobody here recalls when NYC went bankrupt, almost.

Infrastructure problems? Like when a two-mile long elevated section of the West Side
Highway collapsed to the ground because there was no money to pay for upkeep?

Go talk to mayor Lindsay.

Can't spend more than you make. If you gamble and loose you gotta pay the house. And don't expect your neighbor to loan you the cash either cause he's eating beans and rice.

Mydrrin said:

Do you really want an answer or a screaming match. Sprawling city, very very sprawling. Detroit is something like 120 square miles with little central nexus. The big three build factories all over Detroit and assembly plants. The big three now outsource close to everything, going for the cheapest maker with a certain set of credentials. The city was far too sprawling to densify, all efforts to do this is very very costly. Add this together with a neglectful state and federal government and little ability to add to their tax base. Not sure what people were expecting. Politicians often do what is easy instead of what is best.

Click to expand...

Screaming match? Just saw it on the news and heard Ted responding to it, He makes a lot of sense- "to me anyways" Also watched him and Piers Morgan debating gun control- also made a lot of sense.
If you have seen some of my previous threads you know Im not looking to stir up "Shit"
Their are a lot of smart well read articulate people here with interesting view points.
When I see pictures of people in Detroit sitting around and cant even pick up the garbage in front of them it reminds me of "Some" of our Native peoples. Build them houses, build infrastructure for them at taxpayers expense and before long the homes are destroyed and nothings working.
Then they go on the band wagon going on about how they arent being looked after and need new homes and clean water.
I understand about despair, unemployment is high and future looks bleak , but is their not opportunities out their for people to better them selves, education, work elsewhere?
When I see people sitting around doing nothing when yes there is opportunities for them- You may have to move, or make sacrifices, but many a person has risen from poverty, abuse, despair, and become very successful.
Dont Bitch and Complain if your sitting on your ass waiting for someone else to do all the work.
JMHO

Guess the view's pretty good from the cheap seats, Dr. Ted.

Where were you when things were going bad? Raking in the
big entertainer paychecks then as well as now I guess.

I can point at something and say "that's a cow."

Doesn't make me a veternarian.

Plenty of blame to go around as to who screwed the pooch in Detroit- for years, everybody was skimming, kicking back, and stealing, both parties and a lot of people who didnt have a party, just a handfull of gimme and a mouthful of much obliged.

But the current "bankruptcy" is an attempt to dump all the losses off on the retired civil servants. Most of whom are cops and firefighters who didnt, personally, steal anything, but signed up for a job, that included health care and a pension, and now are being told- "welcome to the 21st century, heres your last paycheck, have fun growing old" (to misquote a musician who is about as opposite to Ted Nugent as you can get- Ani DiFranco)

The mayors and city councils for years mismanaged Detroit. But none of those guys will pay a dime. None of the contractors who overbilled, or the outright crooks who got paid a million bucks for a $20,000 job will pay anything back. Just the guys who actually worked for a living.

If you want a real up close and personal view of firefighters and cops in Detroit, along with politicians and everybody else, read Detroit- An American Autopsy, by Charlie LeDuff, a native son.
Detroit: An American Autopsy: Charlie LeDuff: 9781594205347: Amazon.com: Books
Its funny, sad, maddening, and true.
LeDuff spends time with all the players, and spares nobody.

One very interesting fact about Detroit- 61% of the people who live in Detroit, and actually HAVE a job, have jobs outside of Detroit-
But 70% percent of the jobs INSIDE Detroit are held by people who dont live there-

In other words, the poor people who live in Detroit have to commute to the suburbs to work at their minimum wage jobs in fast food and hotels and mini-malls.
But the real jobs in Detroit, both the City jobs, and the downtown jobs (there still are a fair amount) all go to suburban residents who commute in to town, but wont live there.

So the tax base in Detroit is even worse- the taxes from the people who make money in Detroit get paid in places like Grosse Point and Bloomfield Hills.

Everybody has been strip mining Detroit for a long long time.

everything has a life and eventually most things have a death, in between there are ups and downs.

Living 20 miles from Stockton, California, which went bankrupt about one year ago, Detroit is not going out of busniess. Simply put it means all the public employee contracts, including pensions, must be renegiated. Public salaries will be lowered and medical costs will be split. This also means all those sweet deals for private companies being paid higher then fair market rates will be reviewed and also those ones were they pay less then the cost to the city. I wonder what the rent is for the local football team to use the stadium vs someone renting it for a concert. Wonder how much the airport costs to run.
Bill D.
PS: I saw a ad on TV for a "free' legal service. Idea was you work with them to report IRS violations and they split the reward with you. Add was very similar to the ambulance chaser adds.

Not much different than the whole country and most of the industrial world.
Most regions had a distorted revenue stream during the 'boom' and ran into trouble during the bust...

Cities and countries which have legacy burden run into more trouble than others- some fail.

Unions negociating things with gov and no one is watching -Boom it explodes .

I feel for the old people who are getting screw. I also know that I am not getting a pension, healthcare, wellfare, food stamps, section 8, special tax breaks, or anything else. I work my ass off way more than 8 a day and don't expect any one to help as long as I can walk. For those that can't earn a living, I feel for you and that's what the safety net is for.

Detroit has had more than its share of lousy (and often crooked) mayors in the past. IMO, Ted Nugent would add to that list. A mirror image to some in the past, but just as much mouth over substance. So, yeah, you could blame the people for both the past and their contemplation of the future.

For many years Ford and then GM tried to make a go of places like the Renaissance Center. Their failures suggest the problems of Detroit go beyond poorly educated folks electing piss poor politicians. Auto execs didn't have much luck trying to pull strings either.

King Books used to be my main reason for venturing downtown. Haven't been there for a few years, but hope there are still four stories jammed with used books (a full aisle of manufacturing books) and the business is making it.

Downtown Detroit still had a bit of swagger and cool in the area around Tiger Stadium last time I was there (maybe 2008?). I grabbed breakfast near Tiger Stadium, the place was filled with mostly black businessmen who looked like athletes, spoke like execs, and seemed to be enjoying each other's company. A good vibe.

Lots of cities have faced problems -- Seattle, NY, Chicago, Atlanta, Long Beach . . . come to mind. Detroit has a rich history -- the center of manufacturing, jazz, soul, sports, a magnet for folks trying to make a better life. Hopefully it will rise again, as those other cities have. Also, hopefully, the State of Michigan will try to be a part of a sensible turnaround rather than just sticking it to the people there, as seems to be one of the political motivations today. As an example, the city still needs an Art Museum IMO; rather than selling the place off bit by bit. Perhaps some of its citizens who have made fortunes there can step up?

There are some terrific towns around Detroit. How much they will be hurt if Detroit completely collapses is another question.

As for blaming political affiliation for Detroit's many woes (rather than just plain greed and stupidity crossed with tough economics), many of the nation's richest cities (Boston, San Francisco, Seattle, San Jose, Chicago) are pretty much liberal leaning. Texas' best city (IMO, Austin) is also its most liberal. One might argue that some of our most conservative states (think old South) have looked like Redneck versions of Detroit for decades: poor, poorly educated, but conservative. Turns out that intelligence and integrity (plus stupidity and greed) cross party lines.

Maybe it's time to let some moderates govern the city rather than framing it as a clash of idiot extremes?

Detroit is a crap hole. It has been controlled by the dems since 1962.....prior to the 67 riots a lot of white folks and business fled, after the 67 riots most of the remaining white folks fled....detroit is a cesspool of thieves, thugs and grifters. Everyone of them out to "stick it to da man"...Or "I'm gettin mine" Watch a city council meeting you will be left speechless.....
This one is from 5 years ago but it is the same today....

Detroit City Council hearing adjourned amid shouting match - YouTube

Here is another one

Obamma should bail us out cuz we voted for him , "our people" voted for him.

Detroit councilwoman to Obama: We voted for you, now bail us out. - YouTube

let it go down the drain.