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Did your heritage influence on your decision to enter the trade?

Thunderjet

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Jun 24, 2019
So, I'm reviewing my career choices as I near the big 60 soon.

I ALWAYS knew what I wanted to do. That was something regarding mechanical stuff.

My family history is pretty much steeped in the machine trades. My dad held two cards, T&D and Patternmaker, Owned/run a shop for thirty years. I was running a South Bend flat belt lathe by the time I was 8. My dad's father was a designer for the Unit Cast foundry. My Mom's dad was a set up man and shop foreman for the Spicer corporation. His brother was a die maker in numerous shops locally, I have his tool collection here in my house.

With that said, I'm wondering was this baked in the cake?

Did I have a choice or an opportunity? Did any of you guys and gals have a choice or an opportunity?

I'm sure you all have similar stories and tales to tell.

I tell folks all the time that if I couldn't build/make/design stuff, I would be in jail or dead.

So let's get past the stupid political/covid/ crap and talk about stuff that motivates you every morning.

Are there differences between the European and the new world model that make a difference? I know that the trades/smithing thing began in the old world and extended to the new world.

Does this still influence the choices folks make with regards to career choices?

Follow your genes.
 
I'd think it's at least as much nurture (culture and upbringing) than nature (genes). I joke that I grew up with the "tool gene." My Dad and both Grandfathers on both sides were mechanically inclined. A great grandfather was a fairly famous inventor / businessman. And my lovely Mom turned from BA in teaching before WWII to a BS in engineering during WWII, then back to teaching primary grades. Unlike my Dad and Grandfathers, she never really had the "tool gene" - but was just smart enough to fly through the classes. She also claimed I learned to say "riiver" (for screwdriver) before "mom."

Certainly things like visualizing objects in space have a genetic component. But I suspect that those with those skills, but brought up in a mechanical-labor-averse culture will not likely make much use of them. In a huge country like India, with its heritage of the Hindu caste system, there are lots of socially-respected computer types and fewer not-so-culturally-respected mechanical engineer types. Getting your hands dirty? That's for lower castes. On the other hand, the Sikh areas of India often have some decent engineers and manufacturing companies.

Seems there are mechanical geniuses from all sorts of backgrounds. Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Afghani's (Pakistanis?) making guns with files, the Benin casting amazing bronzes, the Anglo-Saxons at the head of the Industrial Revolution, the French with the world's first practical micrometer, Yankee ingenuity, the Russians who claim to have invented everything, the Chinese who probably have a better claim - and are now again ascending the world of manufacturing, ancient Inca, Aztec, and Olmec artifacts, Israel and Poland punching above their weight in manufacturing, and so on,

Just my experience -- others may vary -- but culture and upbringing shouldn't be counted out. We imitate (and aspire to) what's around us.
 
In the late 1950's, my godparents moved from Ohio, in an already established tool and die shop (his parents had started the business many years before), to a Chicago suburb. My folks moved to this suburb in the mid 1960's and became friends with my future godparents.

From a young age I was influenced by them. We moved from there in the early 1970's but I kept in touch with my godparents and after high school I went to trade school and started my career. My brother followed me a few years later.

I do not recall anyone else in my extended family going into the trade. My son is now interested and I've been teaching him. He has a few years before he gets out of high school, but by then he should have a good start.
 
I'm knocking on 60 too. My Dad was a machinist. I was the youngest of 7 and helped my Dad as far back as I could remember fixing the car, washing machine whatever. Did I mention he was bald? Once while I was "holding the light" a job most junior apprentices know of I accidently touched his head with the outer metal frame of the drop light. Yeah THAT left a mark. I've often thought how it takes us so long to get the tools knowledge and wisdom to do what we do and when we get there it's over. God's cruel irony. I have no regrets going into the trades. Met and worked with some of the most stand up men and women in the world. They brought in an HR lady at my side job, I bet all of her clients are office people. This is a construction company. One side of the door is the office the other side is the shop. Shop side is an entirely different culture, if you trip and fall they bust your balls. If the shit should hit the fan they'd all be there to help you any way they could.
Did you hear about the machinist who retired and couldn't stand hanging around the house? So he went and got a job as a Walmart greeter. He went through all the training and got his blue vest. On his first day he's standing by the front door as the store opens ready to "Greet". He looks and sees coming toward the door a huge woman walking with two uglier than sin kids who are punching each other. The fat lady is cussing and swearing at them to knock it off. When they get to the door the retired machinist using all of his training says, "Good morning madam, my what a beautiful day and what handsome boys you have. Tell me, are they twins?" "TWINS" she yells. "Where the hell did you get the idea they were twins? He's 10 and he's 8. Twins, are you high?" To that the machinist replied, "I didn't think a woman as ugly as you could get laid twice." That's when he started looking for a used lathe.
 
I had neither nature nor nurture.

My dad once took a test, administered by the US Government, to evaluate his manual dexterity and mechanical aptitude.
He scored the worst the examiner had ever seen.

I can verify, from my 16 years of living with him, that this was true.
He was completely inept in all manual activities, beyond opening bottles.
He did read more than practically anyone- he was, for many years, the largest single borrower from the Seattle Public Library System.
He also made a living with his mouth- Arguing. He was a trial lawyer.

But the tool drawer in our house was pathetic, 2 or 3 screwdrivers, a hammer, and a green craftsman staple gun I still have. (actually, I still have the hammer, too- when I appropriated it in about 1972, it was extremely low miles).

So definitely no genetic input there.
No Nature.
My mother did sew, although as soon as my little sister was old enough to go to school (5), my mom went to Law School, and eventually ended up a Judge and Congresswoman. She did teach me to sew, though.

Thats about it for Nurture.

I was completely on my own, as far as fixing or making stuff went.
I learned on the job, so to speak, first, as a bicycle and ski mechanic at REI, back when they only had one store.
That 3 bucks an hour bought me metric and inch wrenches, and, eventually, a level, a tape measure, and a few screwdrivers.

From there, I had to first, figure out which tools even existed- I would haunt the industrial area of 1970s Seattle, visiting tool and machinery dealers.
As my income allowed, I would buy tools, starting with hand tools, working thru hand power tools, and, eventually, bigger machines.

I would often get a job, usually working for architects or decorators or contractors, with zero idea of how to actually do it, and wheedle out a down payment- and then buy the tools needed to do it.
One big breakthrough was when I was hired to trim out a storefront, the sales office for an as yet unbuilt condo tower, with all the baseboards and door and window trim made from 3" steel channel. Got a downpayment, bought a drill press and a horizontal bandsaw. Didnt have a welder, so I used JB weld to assemble the parts after bolting em to the wall, then sanded it out and painted over the "weld beads".
Most of the tools I bought, I had not only never used or been trained on, I had never even seen one.
Never handled a gas torch, or a stick welder, before I bought one.
How hard could it be, eh?
I have been welding for money for nigh on 40 years now, all hands on and book learning.

My only "formal" training was in Machine Shop.
In the late 80s, I took 2 years of night school, 2 nights a week at LA Trade Tech in Downtown LA.
Really good instructors, all ex-McDonnell Douglas Aerospace machinists.
3 machine shops- the beginner shop, about 2000 sq feet,
the main 5000 sq foot shop, and an early cnc shop, at that point still most tape machines.

So I learned how to run a manual mill and lathe.
But it was still almost 10 years before I could actually afford the machines, and then had to teach myself how to use them in real life.

Lucky for me, I am a pretty good reader, and I have a gigantic library of metalworking books, mostly bought used.
No YouTube back then.

Sometimes, I am sure, I do things "wrong".
But I still have all my fingers and toes, no stitches since that late night mix up with a router in 1986.
And I have made a living, running my own shop, since I quit my last real job in 1978.
Along the way, I have employed probably 40 different people in the shop, and, amusingly enough, had to teach a lot of em a lot of stuff....
 
My Dad, his Dad, his Dad, his Dad, his Dad... that's as far back as family history goes. My uncle, my cousin, my two brothers, my four nephews, my son, my daughter. Me.

George B.
 
Bigger question,
A good choice made? Would you encourage the children or grand children onto this path if mechanically inclined?
At one rough time Dad told me to become a auto mechanic and get the certs. I was just floored but I tend to make bad life decisions.
In the 80s a software wiz but the lure of cutting metal came hunting for me. Maybe it is in ones blood.
Bob
 
I had neither nature nor nurture.

My dad once took a test, administered by the US Government, to evaluate his manual dexterity and mechanical aptitude.
He scored the worst the examiner had ever seen.

I can verify, from my 16 years of living with him, that this was true.
He was completely inept in all manual activities, beyond opening bottles.
He did read more than practically anyone- he was, for many years, the largest single borrower from the Seattle Public Library System.
He also made a living with his mouth- Arguing. He was a trial lawyer.

But the tool drawer in our house was pathetic, 2 or 3 screwdrivers, a hammer, and a green craftsman staple gun I still have. (actually, I still have the hammer, too- when I appropriated it in about 1972, it was extremely low miles).

So definitely no genetic input there.
No Nature.
My mother did sew, although as soon as my little sister was old enough to go to school (5), my mom went to Law School, and eventually ended up a Judge and Congresswoman. She did teach me to sew, though.

Thats about it for Nurture.

I was completely on my own, as far as fixing or making stuff went.
I learned on the job, so to speak, first, as a bicycle and ski mechanic at REI, back when they only had one store.
That 3 bucks an hour bought me metric and inch wrenches, and, eventually, a level, a tape measure, and a few screwdrivers.

From there, I had to first, figure out which tools even existed- I would haunt the industrial area of 1970s Seattle, visiting tool and machinery dealers.
As my income allowed, I would buy tools, starting with hand tools, working thru hand power tools, and, eventually, bigger machines.

I would often get a job, usually working for architects or decorators or contractors, with zero idea of how to actually do it, and wheedle out a down payment- and then buy the tools needed to do it.
One big breakthrough was when I was hired to trim out a storefront, the sales office for an as yet unbuilt condo tower, with all the baseboards and door and window trim made from 3" steel channel. Got a downpayment, bought a drill press and a horizontal bandsaw. Didnt have a welder, so I used JB weld to assemble the parts after bolting em to the wall, then sanded it out and painted over the "weld beads".
Most of the tools I bought, I had not only never used or been trained on, I had never even seen one.
Never handled a gas torch, or a stick welder, before I bought one.
How hard could it be, eh?
I have been welding for money for nigh on 40 years now, all hands on and book learning.

My only "formal" training was in Machine Shop.
In the late 80s, I took 2 years of night school, 2 nights a week at LA Trade Tech in Downtown LA.
Really good instructors, all ex-McDonnell Douglas Aerospace machinists.
3 machine shops- the beginner shop, about 2000 sq feet,
the main 5000 sq foot shop, and an early cnc shop, at that point still most tape machines.

So I learned how to run a manual mill and lathe.
But it was still almost 10 years before I could actually afford the machines, and then had to teach myself how to use them in real life.

Lucky for me, I am a pretty good reader, and I have a gigantic library of metalworking books, mostly bought used.
No YouTube back then.

Sometimes, I am sure, I do things "wrong".
But I still have all my fingers and toes, no stitches since that late night mix up with a router in 1986.
And I have made a living, running my own shop, since I quit my last real job in 1978.
Along the way, I have employed probably 40 different people in the shop, and, amusingly enough, had to teach a lot of em a lot of stuff....

Ries,, Thanks for the story and background. I can say that there are many persons familiar with what generations have accomplished. Many ancestors have changed up from hunter gathers. Exposure to tools and working with them are part of it. Sometimes a person never knows they like working that way until they stumble into it. Too a lawyer does make considerably more than a machinist at least there is a higher likelihood of that.


Many persons with high PHD’s can’t wait to get home to build something. My father in law grew up abandoned and had to fend for himself he survived and entered the Army and out to Korea with the Guard as China was pouring in. Then he worked full time and got a degree in computer science in the mid u0’s. He loves to run home and build things for himself and his dog houses look like something Snuffy Smith would build. They are classic. It represented his environment growing up when after a couple of years on his own his family relatives located and took him in.


He had it rough under their roof too. When he left to go to war he returned alive to find his family had sold all his meager possessions as they were sure he would die. Turned out he learned mathematics and in the Army; was directing artillery and mortars. Beats a foxhole. He passed away last August .

I guess what I am remembering is many people do not know they would enjoy it. Others who are not very good at it can still enjoy it yet it may take them longer. If turning a wrench does not make enough money to get married, have a few kids, or have a lot of kids providing well for them then they should do something that pays.

People can be preconditioned to stagnate like a frog in a pot of water as it heats up from a fire it is gradual and kills them. Myself I did have relatives who worked tool and die for Prat Whitney. Also I had potato farmers too. Most going back we’re farmers and further back I trace to one soldier a Indian fighter.

Like the old saying we have “Run what you got”. I will think it over and tell a bit of my background in the context of my opinion on the OP’s question yet after I take some time.
 
My Dad was an outstanding mechanical engineer. His father was a surgeon. My surgeon grandfather indulged my Dad's interests from an early age, buying him a 9" South Bend lathe when he was 18, and otherwise indulging him because he could. While my Dad did not have a surgeon's income, I benefited from my grandfather's indulgence, and got to learn on the South Bend and Buffalo Forge drill press in our basement. Lucky for me, I did not know what I was missing in terms of skimpy selection of cutting tools, work holding, and materials. I did some crazy shade-tree machining and fabrication without fear. I would have been frozen in my tracks if I knew the "right way" that I know now.

I think there is some kind of gene for mechanical aptitude. There seems to be one for getting turned on by good tools. My Dad got these genes big time, possibly from his Grandfather on his mother's side, who had a farm with an old Fordson tractor, 1928 Dodge truck, an other goodies my Dad got to play with in his youth. I got the genes. I think my son got them. None of my other three kids got them, though two are not afraid to try fixing things around their houses. We've all been fortunate that worries about health, food, clothing, and shelter haven't derailed us, as those things can for so many in the world.
 
I don't know of anyone in my family that amounted to jack shit. I'd say it's NOT gene/family related at all. Been in tool & die / machining since I was 19....
 
One of my first memories was sitting on my butt holding a jar of full of varsol cleaning bearings while my dad was repacking all the axles on the car and trailer for our big yearly camping trip.
One of the second was sitting on my butt holding a jar full of rivets as my dad was knacking together a pop-up camper from some old aluminum sheet and canvas on a Model T chassis he had got somewhere.

So yeah it runs in the family to work on things and also to gather up some bits of scrap and build things with the perfect confidence that you can do it and have something worth the effort when done.

But my grandad was an electrical engineer who worked laying the grid through PA as electricity first came it.
Oddly I remember on road trips in the car as a small boy drawing truss elements in my head thinking about what made them strong.
So somewhere in my makeup was a specific interest in the mechanical world.

So I was raised to it and I guess my dad was too.
I have a knack for it and just about the only thing I do is work on designs for mechanical problems and always have.

The career path for me was much more on the artisan side- classical string instruments, carpentry, furniture and boat building.
I started late at uni and studied biology and then did about half a ME before stopping.
I guess if I had it to do over the ME would have been where I started.

I am closing on 60 as well.
It is an age where ones lives path is no longer a vague ideal you are working on.
What you did is done and it is all right there on the damn paper.

I am very glad to have such a strong skill set for design- It made my life very easy as I have always been the man on spot who knew exactly how to get jobs done.
I don't have so much in the way of getting along with others so that cuts me out of lots of normal work where being a 'people person' is required.

I will never want for anything- if I end up on the streets I can make one hell of a house out of a cardboard box and be quite happy doing it.

Edit-

One thing I noticed which is age related.
Decades ago I got bored with lots of the work I was doing- I never was that challenged by the run of mill work and one just sees a long line of projects where being a decent tradesman just means making things faster.

Over the last few years I am really starting to become interested in original design work.
I have lost interest in the run of mill and I think I am going to try to refocus on those projects which really hold my interest.
I don't know how or if that will play out but that is where my heart is- I'm thinking develop some crazy product and spend a large fortune to make a small one as the saying goes but enjoy doing it..

Oddly I find myself right back where I started helping my dad build that camper.
I have a good design and want to build out a prototype and more than a few friends who might buy one.

Knowing what I do about camper and boat building outfits I can see it is not a real bright business ideal but at this point don't really care.
I think that is what retirement is for mechanical types- they get to build things they are interested in after doing every damn other thing that just needed getting done..
 
Interest in technical things is probably the biggest force in my life, but its not genetic. Dad was semi competent; he could build a dog house or a fence but would also call an electrician or a plumber. His Dad, Papa, if he owned a screw driver might not have known what end to hold on to. Both were great guys and excelled in other areas....but limited technical ability and zero machining knowledge/experience.
 
I have been mechanically inclined since I was a kid.
Like many here I suspect, my Mom used to joke that nothing in our house got thrown out until I had the opportunity to tear it apart. Most never got put back together....but I remember enjoying figuring out how stuff worked (to some degree). My lineage is Scot and Irish (as grandma used to say....that means you would like a pint...bur you are to damn tight to pay for one...that may have influenced her home brew lol)
Fast forward to early high school....I had a girl friend who's father was a tool maker. He had a home shop and I watched him quite often and decided it was for me. Most of my family had been farmers but my grandfather spent WWII as a welder in ship yards on the west coast of the U.S. He was disabled and unfit for military service but knew how to weld. I had other relatives who have worked in factories (Ford, AMC, Minneapolis Moline).
To be perfectly honest.....I never knew this trade even existed until I was dating my future x wife at 16. However in her family it was a generational thing and the conversations between the male members of her family revolved around it.
I guess to answer your question.....I dont know...lol
 
One of my first memories was sitting on my butt holding a jar of full of varsol cleaning bearings while my dad was repacking all the axles on the car and trailer for our big yearly camping trip.
One of the second was sitting on my butt holding a jar full of rivets as my dad was knacking together a pop-up camper from some old aluminum sheet and canvas on a Model T chassis he had got somewhere.

So yeah it runs in the family to work on things and also to gather up some bits of scrap and build things with the perfect confidence that you can do it and have something worth the effort when done.

But my grandad was an electrical engineer who worked laying the grid through PA as electricity first came it.
Oddly I remember on road trips in the car as a small boy drawing truss elements in my head thinking about what made them strong.
So somewhere in my makeup was a specific interest in the mechanical world.

So I was raised to it and I guess my dad was too.
I have a knack for it and just about the only thing I do is work on designs for mechanical problems and always have.

The career path for me was much more on the artisan side- classical string instruments, carpentry, furniture and boat building.
I started late at uni and studied biology and then did about half a ME before stopping.
I guess if I had it to do over the ME would have been where I started.

I am closing on 60 as well.
It is an age where ones lives path is no longer a vague ideal you are working on.
What you did is done and it is all right there on the damn paper.

I am very glad to have such a strong skill set for design- It made my life very easy as I have always been the man on spot who knew exactly how to get jobs done.
I don't have so much in the way of getting along with others so that cuts me out of lots of normal work where being a 'people person' is required.

I will never want for anything- if I end up on the streets I can make one hell of a house out of a cardboard box and be quite happy doing it.

Edit-

One thing I noticed which is age related.
Decades ago I got bored with lots of the work I was doing- I never was that challenged by the run of mill work and one just sees a long line of projects where being a decent tradesman just means making things faster.

Over the last few years I am really starting to become interested in original design work.
I have lost interest in the run of mill and I think I am going to try to refocus on those projects which really hold my interest.
I don't know how or if that will play out but that is where my heart is- I'm thinking develop some crazy product and spend a large fortune to make a small one as the saying goes but enjoy doing it..

Oddly I find myself right back where I started helping my dad build that camper.
I have a good design and want to build out a prototype and more than a few friends who might buy one.

Knowing what I do about camper and boat building outfits I can see it is not a real bright business ideal but at this point don't really care.
I think that is what retirement is for mechanical types- they get to build things they are interested in after doing every damn other thing that just needed getting done..

Remember the member who posted about RV life? There is a large amount of persons converting vans and SUVs to live in and travel. Plus too the whole thing about catering trucks from the box on the back of a good pickup to the big ones that are mobile or move from customer factory ro factory if you will.

Handy stuff for fabrication and there are likely large customer bases that need something fixed,added, or redesigned. Hell someone one posted a thread on Hotdog stands portable ones. Now that might explain why people do not wish to work in the trade vs Hot Dog stands. Strange that someone might want to have a descent place to live, a car that runs, and enough money to have and care for a family.

If a job will not pay for the dreams and the natural order of things then it is time to find employment that will. It is like leaving a really bad relationship.
 
Gotta travel pretty far up my family tree but there it is, 1n 1891 my great grandfather was inentured as an apprentice to the PA railroad company to learn the "art, trade, or mystery of 'A Machiinist' "
 

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Amazing Jim. Railroad jobs were pretty good. Of course laying the tracks East and West was very hard and deadly. Amazing time when people actually built things which would enrich and advance the country before the banksters decided the way was to make money on money.

I have built up and returned railroad car wheels in the past. Back when true Job shops were around. They are hard material.
 








 
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