Does Chinese custom parts have a future in American market? - Page 14
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  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Played in the game or just thinking out loud?
    Is China worse or easier than Japan a few decades back or even now?
    Is the market closed more that Japan was to small outside shops? I do see a big difference here.
    How is the skill market off limits?
    Bob
    I've done BOTH, thanks [1]. Japan is ALL about networks. You have those, you have anything at all you need. ELSE NOT!

    China has "guanxi", too. "networking". But it is more about whether you pay up-front, or can be trusted to pay on delivery. Otherwise wide-open and intensely competitive.

    First time I ever had to hand-over a company check, new company, I was in Taipei trying to get a dead gateway switch to stay online. A new friend, now an OLD friend pulled in a few markers with one of HIS old friends to get China Battery to put a full set of new UPS batteries on their own company truck and drive through the night of a Sunday in a tropical storm clear from Kaoshiung to Taipei, wee hours arrival. And we were soon golden, again Just in Time for Monday-morning rush business traffic.

    He was astonished when the check was delivered next day in Hong Kong by my Father in Law. "This is written in CHINESE!" Dad didn't even speak English, let alone WRITE it, so the story had to be translated for me later.

    He had looked at the vendor deadpan said: "What else? It's a CHINESE company "Ah Bill" is the only Gweilo!"

    And the impossible was never impossible, ever again. Head of a major Taiwanese electronics maker or favoured Son who actually RAN a factory was in town? There was a third at dinner. Their shout. My guy was showing of HIS contacts to THEM!



    [1] Wife even more so. Director, Business Development, Asia. Cable & Wireless, HKG. Established and staffed the offices in Tokyo, Singapore, Seoul, Taipei, etc, etc.. and even made several ATTEMPTS to open-up Vietnam. Corrupt? You do NOT want to even KNOW! Brother-in-Law had much the same beat, larger-yet US multinational. Commuted, HKG, Tokyo. Concentrates on running China exclusively, now. It's where the MONEY is.

  2. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Played in the game or just thinking out loud?
    Is China worse or easier than Japan a few decades back or even now?
    Is the market closed more that Japan was to small outside shops? I do see a big difference here.
    How is the skill market off limits?
    Bob
    When I was there there were plenty of hungry little jobshops.
    Any level of skill you needed...very cheap too.
    The hardest thing was getting good material because McMaster wasn’t a click away.
    The rest is speculation.
    When I was in japan 20 years ago the quality and delivery were world class.

    The market in japan was closed because the Japanese are proud people and would rather buy their own stuff. Hell the tool room would bust a nut to keep management from outsourcing.
    In China it’s just plain easier and cheaper to source locally, as long as you are willing to lean o;your supplier to do a good job.

  3. #263
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    OK
    I see, so no chance, no need to chase after this, just take our place and die while making some squeaking noises.
    Hoping the government will help us all out, I'm not holding my breathe or waiting for that.
    Little China shops are probing us for openings, some PA here is gonna bite, are we doing so in return? I don't just see any that.

    Weird as it may be I have found China so easier to sell into than Japan by miles yet we accept one as friendly and not the other.
    Why can't a small shop here compete into these offshore customers as well as a small shop there can compete into a USA customer?
    I think mostly that we are afraid to try.
    All the noise of low wages, free power, handouts, etc, and the huge amount of high production imports at ultra-low prices have made us chicken shit.

    Some seem to be afraid of China rather than seeing it as a land of opportunity and a huge new market to run in.
    I just want a very, very little piece of that pie.
    Bob

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    OK
    I see, so no chance, no need to chase after this, just take our place and die while making some squeaking noises or hoping the government will help us all out.
    Weird as it may be I have found China easier to sell into than Japan by miles yet we accept one and not the other.
    Bob
    There are certainly markets.
    But I think this one is a non starter.

  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    ....
    But I think this one is a non starter.
    While a hard fight in this market I will keep this in mind as the cash continues to clear the bank.
    Perhaps it's best you sit on the porch while the dogs do their work.
    Some of us fight hard for the scraps and never give up. Sometimes that makes you come out golden in the end but you have to give it time.
    This will not be "easy money" and no one looking for such should be looking to sourcing into China.
    Plenty of hardened small shops and owners here and that is where I point my comments to.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Some seem to be afraid of China rather than seeing it as a land of opportunity and a huge new market to run in. I just want a very, very little piece of that pie.
    But you have something to offer. Being able to run a Haas isn't going to cut the mustard, there are five million guys in China who can do that just as well. Make a drawing in Autocad and poosh de green button is not an earth-shaking skill these days.

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    While a hard fight in this market I will keep this in mind as the cash continues to clear the bank.
    Perhaps it's best you sit on the porch while the dogs do their work.
    Some of us fight hard for the scraps and never give up. Sometimes that makes you come out golden in the end but you have to give it time.
    This will not be "easy money" and no one looking for such should be looking to sourcing into China.
    Plenty of hardened small shops and owners here and that is where I point my comments to.
    Bob
    Do you sell onesies into China?
    I think that’s what the op was talking about.
    I have sent plenty of automation into China.
    Generally the order is for one with a possible follow on.
    They get the machine, reverse engineer it and you never see the serialized machines.

  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    OK
    I see, so no chance, no need to chase after this, just take our place and die while making some squeaking noises.
    THEY won't interfere. More space for people who will work.

    But some factories and businesses I know in China were built from bare ground.. by Carolina boys and Upah-Yew-Ess Left Coasters.. even a guy who used to make ham sandwiches in London, kids off the mean streets of Glasgow, the Slovak Republic, Denmark, Switzerland, Germany, and Brazil. More Parsi's in Hong Kong than you'd expect. Standard-Chartered Bank? Hong Kong Electric? Sindhi's too.

    Plenty of opportunity! You'll need two sets of license plates on the Benz, HKG and Guangzhou.

    It just ain't gonna fall out of a f***kn dirigible as it passes over your shop nor crawl up yer ass off a purchase order.

    You have to get that ass out THERE, on the ground, put yourself eyeball to eyeball and get some understandings into place. Trust does not come fast nor free, but it can be easy.

    Had you not noticed THEY come HERE when they want to buy a company?

    Even my kid Sister-in-Law makes a personal visit whenever she's buying another US home to add to the rental property. Mind, not that we are a privileged nation. She does the same in Australia, Europe, Malaysia, or even mainland China.

    She is taller and heavier than her eldest sister. Emily had a nine-year head start to get old enough to work and see that the next four kids had food that she had not had. She hand sewed all the clothing for a family of seven. Still a Helluva seamstress. For a retired Company Director and CEO.

    There's our problem, Bob. Motivation.

    They remember actual, not anecdotal, starvation. Up close and as personal as such things ever get.

    And we no longer do.

    How many FAT Chinese do you know? All the ones I know as are even "chubby" are second or more generation......Americans.

  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    ......

    I have sent plenty of automation into China.
    Generally the order is for one with a possible follow on.
    They get the machine, reverse engineer it and you never see the serialized machines.
    I don't know how to answer sending plenty in sentence one and never seeing the second machine in sentence three.
    If you sell plenty what is the problem?
    If you only sell one and no other did you not cover your costs or know the game you were playing?
    If you did cover your cost, why the complaint? You sold one and they copied it. You made money. Lost a cash cow maybe but made money on the deal.

    Here is where China is different. If you are a fool they will feel obligated to screw you.
    It is part of the business culture.
    Bob

  10. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Here is where China is different. If you are a fool they will feel obligated to screw you.
    It is part of the business culture.
    Bob
    Sounds like any small-town American used car salesman to me. Or major cities and NEW cars. Houses. Windows, doors, roofing, furnaces, air-con, hearing-aids, auto-repair cable or fiber media.. Banksters, Financesters... politicians, all political parties and a few political wakes as well.

    Wasn't aware the Chinese had been granted some sort of patent.

    Then again..what would you expect if the "business partner" was seen as a barbarian fool, a volunteer anal-receptive, of a country as had fought wars to force you to open your country to drugs for their profit. Even burned your capitol? Some combination or all of the above?

    Be grateful you are not a Japanese trying to make a profit off China. It works. It takes time to build any trust. One of my HKG cousins by marriage makes a good living off that hard work, but work it surely be. Both cultures have very long memories, y'see.

    People of integrity deal with OTHER people of integrity, stuff progresses, outcomes are predictably favourable.

    All else is but a side-show. One with bad outcomes.

    Kipling:
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

  11. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    I don't know how to answer sending plenty in sentence one and never seeing the second machine in sentence three.
    If you sell plenty what is the problem?
    If you only sell one and no other did you not cover your costs or know the game you were playing?
    If you did cover your cost, why the complaint? You sold one and they copied it. You made money. Lost a cash cow maybe but made money on the deal.

    Here is where China is different. If you are a fool they will feel obligated to screw you.
    It is part of the business culture.
    Bob
    Hell, I sold machines into American companies, only to have the reverse engineered and built out of China.
    It’s not just China that screws you.

  12. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Sounds like any small-town American used car salesman to me. Or major cities and NEW cars. Houses. Windows, doors, roofing, furnaces, air-con, hearing-aids, auto-repair cable or fiber media.. Banksters, Financesters... politicians, all political parties and a few political wakes as well.

    Wasn't aware the Chinese had been granted some sort of patent.

    Then again..what would you expect if the "business partner" was seen as a barbarian fool, a volunteer anal-receptive, of a country as had fought wars to force you to open your country to drugs for their profit. Even burned your capitol? Some combination or all of the above?

    Be grateful you are not a Japanese trying to make a profit off China. It works. It takes time to build any trust. One of my HKG cousins by marriage makes a good living off that hard work, but work it surely be. Both cultures have very long memories, y'see.

    People of integrity deal with OTHER people of integrity, stuff progresses, outcomes are predictably favourable.

    All else is but a side-show. One with bad outcomes.

    Kipling:
    There is no such thing as integrity.
    Greed is good.
    Integrity is only good business practice as long as you are held to it.

  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    Integrity is only good business practice as long as you are held to it.
    It only counts in a world that has a tomorrow. When nothing is dependable, all is for sale, what good is trust ?

    Thanks, Milton (Friedman, not John.)


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