Does Chinese custom parts have a future in American market? - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    Really, the USA is more divided? I got news for ya, pal. I was a little kid back in southern Georgia in the early sixties. You want to talk about divided? You've got no idea what you're talking about.
    Read again what I wrote "... more divided now than at any time since the Vietnamese war". As far as US military fighting in Vietnam went that was from 1965 to 1973.

    To me "early sixties" was before 1965.

    Yes the US was divided over racial disputes (black white) back then while today it is divided but I'm not sure how to "label" it. "Them" against "us" is about as close as I can come domestically and "THEM" against "US" internationally.

    With friends like Kim Yong-un who needs enemies?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    Really, the USA is more divided? I got news for ya, pal. I was a little kid back in southern Georgia in the early sixties. You want to talk about divided? You've got no idea what you're talking about.
    Anywhere with democracy and freedom is divided thats how it works

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  6. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Throughout Asia,there is an ancient tradition of greedy middlemen,who know or care nothing about the product,but are rich from buying for bottom dollar and selling for top dollar....y
    I'm not so sure this tradition does not exist in the USA...... Lower cost labor in places without jobs, a few bonus presents thrown around.
    Those coming from China have the same hurdles Japan did when it was know as a source of absolute crap.
    I most certainly remember those days, low buck stuff of low quality, even Toyota was joke you did not touch ,,,,,,,,Now not so much now.
    Those who bash or write off China as a shit supplier may want to learn a bit of history.
    Those who want to bury their heads in the sand, ignore history and how our competitors came to be......

    China is different than Japan but it is the 800 pound gorilla in the room.
    Here we have a source trying to sell into us, Are you trying to sell into his/her home market?
    Can you play the game or will you need protection from things you see as unfair?
    If Mom promised you life would be fair she lied to you.

    I have zero problems with high quality China sources as competitors.
    Yes we will do battle but no different than my USA enemies.
    Bob

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    Just a note:

    I received a couple of incidental shop aids in the mail today.

    One item was a 5C x ER32 collet holder that I wanted to aid an indexing job I have in the shop.

    The outside looks great. The inside. ahh besides the burrs and rust, the threads are only a little torn and ragged. The device is claimed .0002 concentricity, I will see...
    It's difficult to find this piece NOT made in China.

    The second item was a dial caliper. Just a bench knock around, but a trade up from the .200 per rev unit I've been using for the past 30 years. The eyes are aging, the lines are getting fuzzy.
    The look is good, the feel is smooth, but those burrs! .

    Both items are worth everything I paid, and meet my expectations, but not my desires. I would pay more for better!

    Gordon, If the OP was posed to the Danish manufacturing market, What would be the response?

    ETA

    We all must be aware that the official policy of the Chinese politic is to CAPTURE markets. Profits be damned, and subsidies are handed out on both merit and desirability basis .

    Not really "fair trade" by any stretch,

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    Just a note:

    I received a couple of incidental shop aids in the mail today.

    One item was a 5C x ER32 collet holder that I wanted to aid an indexing job I have in the shop.

    The outside looks great. The inside. ahh besides the burrs and rust, the threads are only a little torn and ragged. The device is claimed .0002 concentricity, I will see...
    It's difficult to find this piece NOT made in China.

    The second item was a dial caliper. Just a bench knock around, but a trade up from the .200 per rev unit I've been using for the past 30 years. The eyes are aging, the lines are getting fuzzy.
    The look is good, the feel is smooth, but those burrs! .

    Both items are worth everything I paid, and meet my expectations, but not my desires. I would pay more for better!

    Gordon, If the OP was posed to the Danish manufacturing market, What would be the response?

    ETA

    We all must be aware that the official policy of the Chinese politic is to CAPTURE markets. Profits be damned, and subsidies are handed out on both merit and desirability basis .

    Not really "fair trade" by any stretch,
    I had to go back and read the OP! My thought when I read it was that someone was spamming in their very first post. Not a wise move.

    How much more would you have been willing to pay for your collet holder that you would have really liked? Of course a Chinese company (or from any other country) could make and supply better than what you bought. You're blaming the producer when you should be blaming the company that bought a poor quality item that they could have checked before bulk buying.

    Personally I'd NEVER buy a dial caliper. At least not since the advent of digital ones. To me they were always the stage between vernier and digital. Maybe a bit like who'd buy a plasma TV today?

    Of course we have Chinese imports here in Denmark but I've never heard the complaints that I read in PM from Americans. The only two reasons I can think of is that people here are willing to pay more and that our importers don't buy as much junk as others.

    Another thing is that if China (or any other country) choose to sell by subsidizing that means little or no profit. Not exactly a good way to get rich and sooner or later that'll change and another country step in. Do you believe for a second the USA wouldn't capture a market if it could?

    The above probably aren't the answers you were looking for but all I can offer are my own opinions. I'm not omnipotent

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    I worked for a company that imported Chinese fabricated parts. We would get samples sent over that were consistently of high (enough) quality. After that we'd order a shipping container full and most of the time the first shipment would be ok. Everything after that first shipment would be a tossup as it seemed the job would be sub'd out for the lowest price without any notification of the change.

    Maybe it was our fault for not offering to pay more up front but I don't think it would make much of a difference. Seemed standard business practice. We'd put out jobs for quote and I feel the bids would assume a loss on the first shipment which would be made up by outsourcing following shipments. I came away believing I would never source anything from China unless I could afford to pay someone over there to QA every shipment.

    Teryk

    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by mTeryk View Post
    I worked for a company that imported Chinese fabricated parts. We would get samples sent over that were consistently of high (enough) quality. After that we'd order a shipping container full and most of the time the first shipment would be ok. Everything after that first shipment would be a tossup as it seemed the job would be sub'd out for the lowest price without any notification of the change.

    Maybe it was our fault for not offering to pay more up front but I don't think it would make much of a difference. Seemed standard business practice. We'd put out jobs for quote and I feel the bids would assume a loss on the first shipment which would be made up by outsourcing following shipments. I came away believing I would never source anything from China unless I could afford to pay someone over there to QA every shipment.

    Teryk

    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
    We can probably agree that most buy from China because the price is lower. Depending on how much money is involved I'd suggest that a visit should be part of the cost. I've found that personal relationships are very important in China. See what they do and how they do it.

    Some of the members here in PM are an example of what I mean. I've met a few IRL and they were nothing like some of the insolently aggressive types that post. In fact I've never met some of the types that post in PM in any country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    "People" no. Some people then yes. I refuse to believe you've never bought something you didn't need.

    The things some collect never ceases to surprise me but to each his own.

    People, some people more than one person a bunch of people whatever, the point I am making is that people(more than one person) will buy really stupid shit. If a Kim Kardashian were to take a dump into a paper bag and put it on line for auction, hundreds if not thousands of stupid sheeple would bid for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawnrs View Post
    People, some people more than one person a bunch of people whatever, the point I am making is that people(more than one person) will buy really stupid shit. If a Kim Kardashian were to take a dump into a paper bag and put it on line for auction, hundreds if not thousands of stupid sheeple would bid for it.
    Unfortunately, they don't put it in a paper bag. They put it on TV

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    I think the answer to the original question is- less and less.

    That is, for custom parts. The time delay, the language barrier, and the history of uncertain quality means that custom work still gets done mostly in the USA.

    Mass production, thats a different story- every Iphone, for example, is assembled in China.

    But China has been consistently raising wages, and therefore prices, every year, for probably 2 or 3 decades.
    Its not uncommon for Chinese workers to get a 15% wage increase yearly. When was the last time US manufacturing workers saw a ten year run of 15% wage increases?
    We are still half the cost of Sweden, for Ikea, so they make furniture here- we are soon to be a lower labor cost country than China, for middle to high skill level work.

    Over ten years ago, I knew a guy who designed and sourced custom injection molding machine molds for US manufacturers.
    And, back then, in the mid 2000's, he was already sending somewhere around 50% of that custom machining to eastern europe, because wages in China had risen enough, even then, that Poland and Bulgaria and Romania were cost competitive. And the europeans were generally more reliable on quality, and almost always had someone who could answer the phone and speak english.

    I know that Europe, still, is cost competitive with China in many categories- especially machinery for oddball industries- aspirin pill making machines, plate rolls for wind generator towers, coining presses for the jewelry industry, and on and on.

    I see a fair amount of short run and custom machining and fab work being done in my county, in a very high tax, high wage, left wing part of the USA with high real estate costs. But because we have a bunch of shops that are known quantities that will quickly deliver quality work, we get a lot of work from Tech, Medical, Aerospace, Military, and more.
    Work that, theoretically, the OP is fishing for.

    But Skagit Valley shops can deliver it quicker, with fewer translation issues, and deal with known and trusted sandblasters, powdercoaters, platers, and other finishers.

    Long term, I dont see the US post office continuing to subsidize products from China- both liberals and conservatives are against this, its only the really big multinationals and Amazon and Ebay that like it and profit from it. If that goes, a lot of this cheap chinese stuff is no longer so attractive- if you are paying real freight charges, those $400 tig welders suddenly become less competitive, especially given that they are basically disposable anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    Unfortunately, they don't put it in a paper bag. They put it on TV
    LOL! Probably the "manipulating", head-games, and "family" politics over it as well!

    There's got to be a reason I have over 2,000 DVD &. Blue-Ray, no TV service off the coax, and only indoor antenna enough to catch news or weather if the 'net link has gone dark.

    The good news?

    Hell has been de-emphasised for shortage of Management talent and pressure from the Green Lobby- easily as expert at torment as Satan..

    Devil and his more capable minions are swamped with work just managing US Daytime TV production, politics, worldwide, Africa and Middle East most of all, and - what else? - the advertising industry - as far the greater torment to the masses than smelly old Hell fire and brimstone ever were anyway!

    Hang on. Why did I think that was "good news"?



    Ah, well. it's only temporary.

    The way taxes are going, Devil will soon have to offshore all that back to Hell ... or go broke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    Long term, I dont see the US post office continuing to subsidize products from China- both liberals and conservatives are against this, its only the really big multinationals and Amazon and Ebay that like it and profit from it. If that goes, a lot of this cheap chinese stuff is no longer so attractive- if you are paying real freight charges, those $400 tig welders suddenly become less competitive, especially given that they are basically disposable anyway.
    I wouldn't be so confident of that part if I were you. Freight and postage into Australia isn't all that cheap but shipping a container load of stuff for local distribution seems to work OK. I have a 250A MIG and a 120A plasma cutter, both very well made Chinese machines, purchased locally at 1/3 and maybe 1/5 of the price of equivalent US or EU manufactured machines. The freight component is pretty insignificant compared to the other costs.

    I'll accept arguments that the big US plasma cutter manufacturers make a superior product - they do, I've used one - but at 5X the price, they're priced out of my market. The Chinese unit I have cuts 25mm plate and is supposed to be able to cut 40mm plate which is plenty for my purposes. I don't care a lot about consumable life because I don't use it heavily.

    Soon I'll be in the market for a 300A AC/DC TIG welder. It'll be interesting to see what the offerings are....

    PDW

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    shipping a container load of stuff for local distribution seems to work OK.
    And there you have it. 20 years ago, Chinese-made shoes, exact same style as I was buying in the US were twice the price in the same Chiense County as the factory.

    "Dumping"? Not really. Factory could ship multiple containerloads at a go to the USA and sell them all.

    Needed a search warrant to find enough Chinese with a size 12 or 13 foot to sell more than a few, locally.

    US or LATAM, even teen-age girls have feet that big.


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    I believe that the Chinese have all the ability in the world to make good products and probably do all the time. I don't think it is a quality issue from Chinese made products but a perception that what is sold here is not up to usable standards. It is hard to turn a poor reputation around and I think everyone that has gotten something that failed and read made in China in the past has a hard time letting that go.
    It is true that most major manufacturers have facilities in China but they probably have a certain system set up to make sure that quality meets the engineered specs. The average business owner hasn't the money to deal with that so rather than take the risk he has to go elsewhere.
    It's like that old saying, "once bitten - twice shy".
    Dan

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    Maybe its time for a new forum " Manufacturing in China and India"

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    Minya,
    I hope that China will continue to be a close supplier to the United States and vise versa. I think that Custom designs are great and I believe anything can be adjusted in business. There is nothing that indicates that China or the United States are not capable makers. Yes quality may vary in either country but that does not prove lack of quality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Maybe its time for a new forum " Manufacturing in China and India"
    Be careful of what you "wish" for.

    Marriage is like a deck of cards. In the beginning all you need is two hearts and a diamond. By the end you wish you had a club and spade.

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    Yes, Chinese custom parts not only in the American market but also other countries wholesale markets, because the main reason is the Chinese part is available in very cheapest price and every dealer wants to more profit against the sale. In the Indian market also examples of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AdyDev View Post
    Yes, Chinese custom parts not only in the American market but also other countries wholesale markets, because the main reason is the Chinese part is available in very cheapest price and every dealer wants to more profit against the sale. In the Indian market also examples of that.
    Tag Team Spamming !

    Excellent...Maybe they will cancel each other out eh ?


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