Is doing business with China really worth the risk?
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    Default Is doing business with China really worth the risk?

    Since China released Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor concurrently with the release of Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou it is clear that the Chinese government has no problem grabbing foreign nationals and jailing them on trumped up charges (nearly three years each on espionage here) in a clear case of "hostage diplomacy".

    Seriously, why would any company send their employees, or any company's executives go to China for business? Knowing they could be detained unlawfully for political purposes?

    Is it just that lucrative?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Keeley View Post
    Since Canada released Meng Wanzhou concurrently with the release of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor it is clear that the Canadian government has no problem grabbing foreign nationals and jailing them on trumped up charges
    Who detained whom on trumped-up charges first ?

    Could the lesson possibly be, quit acting as the US dirty tricks enforcer, and bad things won't happen ?

    These type of statements always crack me up. You do something totally shitty, then act all righteous when there is a reaction. Somebody has been pushing the rest of the world around far too long, and has become spoiled.

    btw, yeah, there is LOTS of money involved. Billions and trillions.

    Lesson : don't be an ass. You're not pushing around Lichtenstein anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Who detained whom on trumped-up charges first ?

    Could the lesson possibly be, quit acting as the US dirty tricks enforcer, and bad things won't happen ?

    These type of statements always crack me up. You do something totally shitty, then act all righteous when there is a reaction. Somebody has been pushing the rest of the world around far too long, and has become spoiled.

    btw, yeah, there is LOTS of money involved. Billions and trillions.

    Lesson : don't be an ass. You're not pushing around Lichtenstein anymore.

    Really?

    So Meng admits to conspiracy to commit bank fraud and conspiracy to commit wire fraud, bank fraud and wire fraud so the US will let her go. Unfortunately Canada was caught in the middle fulfilling it's extradition commitments to the US.

    Huawei CFO Wanzhou Meng Admits to Misleading Global Financial Institution | OPA | Department of Justice

    Neither Michael Kovrig or Michael Spavor admitted to any wrong doing, were detained ten days after Meng's arrest and were released from very serious charges at the exact moment Meng was.

    Meng Wanzhou and the two Michaels: a timeline | Meng Wanzhou | The Guardian

    So who's the guilty party here again?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Keeley View Post
    So who's the guilty party here again?
    The US.

    Washington has absolutely NO fucking right to pull any "sanctions" shit on Iran or anyone else. It's a Mafia extortion power play, enforced by the biggest crooks and sleazeballs on the planet. Or don't you remember who overthrew the democratically elected government of Iran and started the current mess in the middle east ?

    That's trumped-up, Jack. Trumped-up from the word go. If Al Capone tells you to do something and you go along, too fucking bad if Dutch Schultz wacks you back. Just stay the fuck out of those things, and take your garbage treaty and burn it, you don't believe in it anyhow. How long did it take you to extradite Charles Ng ?

    Fuck Canada, and the horse you lackeys rode in on.

    (Generally speaking I like Canada. But if you are going to let yourselves be used by a bunch of extortionist assholes, then you get what you deserve. I hope you learned your lesson.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Keeley View Post
    Since China released Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor concurrently with the release of Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou it is clear that the Chinese government has no problem grabbing foreign nationals and jailing them on trumped up charges (nearly three years each on espionage here) in a clear case of "hostage diplomacy".

    Seriously, why would any company send their employees, or any company's executives go to China for business? Knowing they could be detained unlawfully for political purposes?

    Is it just that lucrative?
    It seemed to be at one time. No longer. Not for quite a while, already.

    That their Government is actually just one more Feudal-System flavour of organized crime isn't all that different from any OTHER Feudal system power bloc.. that's surely not limited to China.



    But forget Seamoss and his knee-jerk hooring of all things "Pee are Sea".

    The REAL problem NOW is that the sea-freight container biz - and the PORTS - is seriously AFU.

    That crimps supply-chain reliability, predictability, and fast turn on the money, just as much as it makes finished goods harder to predict and far more costly to transport.

    So even for a Pee-are-Sea hoor, the politics don't much matter when you can't reliably know WHEN you can move materials nor expect finished goods.

    Let-alone at what actual cost.

    "shipping problems for world economy" will google 87 MILLION hits.
    Here are just two:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-getting-worse

    No End In Sight For The COVID-Led Global Supply Chain Disruption

    Besides the unpredictability, Pee Are Sea ain't either one of cheap nor cooperative no more, even when operating 'normally'. Hasn't been for long years, already.

    Bloom is off that rose. And a few others:

    Why Evergrande Debt Problems Threaten China - The New York Times

    If one MUST "offshore"?

    Look for a place with better stability, better predictability, greater advantage as to costs & lead-times.

    Europe within "pan Europe".

    The Americas within "Pan America".

    Asia within Pan Asia.. and Oceania.

    China is the world's largest exporter?
    Whomever told you that hasn't been reading the actual numbers.

    China's domestic market is too large to ignore?
    For THEM is surely is!

    Not a problem at all "ignoring" it for those more cautious-wise than greedy-stoopid.

    China's own mega-billionaires start to bail-out?
    What d'yah suppose they already know ... that we ain't yet learnt?

    "Diminishing returns happens", mayhap?

    Xi Jinping Aims to Rein In Chinese Capitalism, Hew to Mao’s Socialist Vision - WSJ

    Enterprising Chinese want that sort of "retrograde" a great deal less than anyone else!

    But have it they assuredly shall.
    Last edited by thermite; 09-25-2021 at 04:07 AM.

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    EG is a pro commie piece of trash, you are wasting your time arguing with him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CITIZEN F16 View Post
    EG is a pro commie piece of trash, you are wasting your time arguing with him.
    ??

    Functionally, he is nowt but a wind-up typing-toy.

    Not up to the level of understanding where anyone sane COULD "argue" with him.

    Even then.. why wuddja wanna?

    Kinda like registering a boil on yerazz to run for President.

    How'd THAT work out?


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    "Big and Lasting"...?

    More like too little too late eh?

    The strategic reverberations of the AUKUS deal will be big and lasting | The Economist

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Depends. "Quality" of China's high-hull-count undersea fleet isn't the latest nor greatest:

    China Submarine Capabilities | NTI

    Does China Have an Effective Sea-based Nuclear Deterrent? | ChinaPower Project

    If the AUS have to build nuke subs from a cold start, even with blueprints (CAD/CAM...) ?

    Tough go.

    Never mind the motive power. They aren't equipped to roll the hull sections. It isn't watcha call "mild steel".

    If they get to buy used, refurbed UK or US boats?

    How British, French, and American Submarine Tech Stacks up

    Faster to get into service?

    Main delay is getting Beijing-Joe-Buyed-In AKA Pretzelbent Cluster-F**k out of Washington and retired back to his basement.

    OTOH, AUS doesn't lose a thing if they have to go 100% UK sourced.

    NOTHING good will happen while circus-lied-in-ista is still giving away more compulsory-grief tickets than anyone ever thought they were going to have to PAY FOR.


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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    The US.

    Washington has absolutely NO fucking right to pull any "sanctions" shit on Iran or anyone else. It's a Mafia extortion power play, enforced by the biggest crooks and sleazeballs on the planet. Or don't you remember who overthrew the democratically elected government of Iran and started the current mess in the middle east ?

    That's trumped-up, Jack. Trumped-up from the word go. If Al Capone tells you to do something and you go along, too fucking bad if Dutch Schultz wacks you back. Just stay the fuck out of those things, and take your garbage treaty and burn it, you don't believe in it anyhow. How long did it take you to extradite Charles Ng ?

    Fuck Canada, and the horse you lackeys rode in on.

    (Generally speaking I like Canada. But if you are going to let yourselves be used by a bunch of extortionist assholes, then you get what you deserve. I hope you learned your lesson.)
    "Fuck Canada"? Careful...Look a bit to the North from where you sit---a veritable Chinese colony. Just a hop-skip-jump and you are among friends.

    I urge moderation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Depends. "Quality" of China's high-hull-count undersea fleet isn't the latest nor greatest:

    China Submarine Capabilities | NTI

    Does China Have an Effective Sea-based Nuclear Deterrent? | ChinaPower Project

    If the AUS have to build nuke subs from a cold start, even with blueprints (CAD/CAM...) ?

    Tough go.

    Never mind the motive power. They aren't equipped to roll the hull sections. It isn't watcha call "mild steel".

    If they get to buy used, refurbed UK or US boats?

    How British, French, and American Submarine Tech Stacks up

    Faster to get into service?

    Main delay is getting Beijing-Joe-Buyed-In AKA Pretzelbent Cluster-F**k out of Washington and retired back to his basement.

    OTOH, AUS doesn't lose a thing if they have to go 100% UK sourced.

    NOTHING good will happen while circus-lied-in-ista is still giving away more compulsory-grief tickets than anyone ever thought they were going to have to PAY FOR.

    What's the lead time for your basic nuke sub---nothing fancy. Three years minimum?

    The Aussies have been jacking around sub shopping for years with nothing to show for it.

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    Are you saying cause the Oz navy has spent billions and didnt even know the boats was supposed to go under the water...as in sink?...We havent had anything as advanced as a playstation in the navy in 40 years ,and the horde havent attacked yet.......anyhoo,I'm thinkin nuclear could be dangerous when those navy guys lose the key and try to jump start the reactor with a squirt of hairspray.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Are you saying cause the Oz navy has spent billions and didnt even know the boats was supposed to go under the water...as in sink?...We havent had anything as advanced as a playstation in the navy in 40 years ,and the horde havent attacked yet.......anyhoo,I'm thinkin nuclear could be dangerous when those navy guys lose the key and try to jump start the reactor with a squirt of hairspray.
    Well if you think Australia's fleet is a joke you should check out Canada's navy. Great (?) Britain can't even send their carrier out to sea without borrowing aircraft and crews, along with someone else's fleet support.

    Expensive toys them nuke subs. Japan, some say, got it right with their diesel electric concentrating on regional defense instead of projecting worldwide power.

    Might be Lockheed Martin has optioned up the nukes with executive suites to provide long term safe haven for the elites in case things go to shit worldwide. Underground bunkers are old school and vulnerable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    The US.

    Washington has absolutely NO fucking right to pull any "sanctions" shit on Iran or anyone else. It's a Mafia extortion power play, enforced by the biggest crooks and sleazeballs on the planet. Or don't you remember who overthrew the democratically elected government of Iran and started the current mess in the middle east ?

    That's trumped-up, Jack. Trumped-up from the word go. If Al Capone tells you to do something and you go along, too fucking bad if Dutch Schultz wacks you back. Just stay the fuck out of those things, and take your garbage treaty and burn it, you don't believe in it anyhow. How long did it take you to extradite Charles Ng ?

    Fuck Canada, and the horse you lackeys rode in on.

    (Generally speaking I like Canada. But if you are going to let yourselves be used by a bunch of extortionist assholes, then you get what you deserve. I hope you learned your lesson.)
    I thank gawd every day G7 countries like the US put political pressure on these rouge states keeping them from nuking the shit out of their neighbors and the rest of us.

    It is unfortunate that your obvious bias towards China will not allow you to see the truth here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Keeley View Post
    I thank gawd every day G7 countries like the US put political pressure on these rouge states keeping them from nuking the shit out of their neighbors and the rest of us.
    Get serious. The US created these rouge states (shipped them cheap MAC and everything.)

    The US is a giant piece of shit, pushing the rest of the world around, and that's about to come to an end.

    It is unfortunate that your obvious bias towards China will not allow you to see the truth here.
    Has nothing to do with China. I've had eyes since I was eight years old. The US is shit, with a hyped PR department. Find any piece of crap totalitarian dictatorship in the past fifty years and the US supports them. Find anywhere that people have revolted for a better life and the US has supplied guns and money to suppress and torture them. The US is garbage, it's been common knowledge for a hundred years. See Butler, Smedley.

    Pinochet, the Diems, Ky, Tshombe, Batista, Pahlevi, Marcos, and a cast of thousands more, all US puppets. Iran is no rouge state (that's more of a Dutch look), they did nothing to the US, the US does not own the world, the US is who deposed their elected government, fuck the US. It's a shit country full of shit people.

    If you want to be a lackey for a mafia don, go right ahead. But when results happen, quit crying.

    It's unfortunate that your bias twoards the United States will not allow you to see the truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Get serious. The US created these rouge states (shipped them cheap MAC and everything.)

    The US is a giant piece of shit, pushing the rest of the world around, and that's about to come to an end.


    Has nothing to do with China. I've had eyes since I was eight years old. The US is shit, with a hyped PR department. Find any piece of crap totalitarian dictatorship in the past fifty years and the US supports them. Find anywhere that people have revolted for a better life and the US has supplied guns and money to suppress and torture them. The US is garbage, it's been common knowledge for a hundred years. See Butler, Smedley.

    Pinochet, the Diems, Ky, Tshombe, Batista, Pahlevi, Marcos, and a cast of thousands more, all US puppets. Iran is no rouge state (that's more of a Dutch look), they did nothing to the US, the US does not own the world, the US is who deposed their elected government, fuck the US. It's a shit country full of shit people.

    If you want to be a lackey for a mafia don, go right ahead. But when results happen, quit crying.

    It's unfortunate that your bias twoards the United States will not allow you to see the truth.

    I've obviously hit a nerve.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Keeley View Post
    Since China released Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor concurrently with the release of Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou it is clear that the Chinese government has no problem grabbing foreign nationals and jailing them on trumped up charges (nearly three years each on espionage here) in a clear case of "hostage diplomacy".

    Seriously, why would any company send their employees, or any company's executives go to China for business? Knowing they could be detained unlawfully for political purposes?

    Is it just that lucrative?
    Same reason they poison rivers, pollute the air, and steal people's pensions after they worked 30 years. Where are all the customers yatchs? The world looks very different on the 50th floor halfway into an 8 ball.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Keeley View Post
    I've obviously hit a nerve.
    You're damn right. I've heard this garbage all my life, "freedom" and "democracy" and "human rights" and "property rights" from two-faced bastards who murdered everyone living here, stole everything at gunpoint, then expanded overseas to fuck up every place they touch. Every single one.

    The US is shit. It's no more shit than all the rest of the imperialist empires that preceded it, but they sure as hell have the lying propaganda figured out, since so many people believe that crap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Keeley View Post
    I've obviously hit a nerve.


    @EmanuelGoldstein

    BLOCK

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    You're damn right. I've heard this garbage all my life, "freedom" and "democracy" and "human rights" and "property rights" from two-faced bastards who murdered everyone living here, stole everything at gunpoint, then expanded overseas to fuck up every place they touch. Every single one.

    The US is shit. It's no more shit than all the rest of the imperialist empires that preceded it, but they sure as hell have the lying propaganda figured out, since so many people believe that crap.

    EmanuelGoldstein...BLOCK

    Not meant for you Terry Keeley


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