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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    Can someone explain what gives the US leadership such a hard-on about trying to crush Iran? Seems to me that the Iranians have more than enough justification to feel aggrieved at the way they've been treated over the last 60 years or so.
    They had the unmitigated gall to throw out our puppet. Have you not noticed that the US loves dictators, when they are our dictator ? but as soon as they have the audacity to enact any legislation benefitting their own people, Axis of Evil !

    That missionary thing is pretty deep in the American DNA ... we're big on "do it our way or we will kill you."

    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    In terms of abusive behavior as a colonial power, the US is behind many European and Asian periods/leaders. Here's a little taste of what King Leopold of Belgium ...
    Absolutely ! That's why we murdered the guy who stood up to Leopold and supported the biggest prick we could find in Africa ! We're behind you 100%, European despots ! (e.g. Opium Wars, burning Beijing so the Brits could continue to sell opium in peace.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    I think he's right about this, PeteM. What that means is, the Dow should not be interpreted as a sign of the health of the US economy. We should see it as an indicator of the disease that is eating up the US.
    Hello Goldstien,

    The Dow is a sign of the health of the US economy. What happened last Saturday involving these drone attacks would have cratered financial markets throughout the world if it happened 20 years ago. What this recent event actually did was to start a rally in energy stocks, that will continue.

    For those that don't see what I'm seeing, go ahead short sell the NYSE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    Hello Goldstien,

    The Dow is a sign of the health of the US economy. What happened last Saturday involving these drone attacks would have cratered financial markets throughout the world if it happened 20 years ago. What this recent event actually did was to start a rally in energy stocks, that will continue.

    For those that don't see what I'm seeing, short sell the NYSE.
    If I just take a contrarian view to whatever you post about the market, I'd expect to be a wealthy man in weeks...

    Oil prices tumble after Saudi Arabia says production is coming back online - CNN

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    You and EG are accusing the American soldier as the murderers. You just have again. Your stats are made up out of thin air as usual. You have the usual supporters to like what you post.

    That is too bad.

    Yet it is not as bad as the education you have had to believe crap like that.

    You remind me of the way Russians tell the story of Syria, Hezbollah, and the houthies. Add to that those who have been doing the killing in Iraq that is the real ones responsible. I do not care what ridiculous crap you post the American soldier has a place of honor in this world and does not murder civilians.

    I think you owe a apology to them and us who have served and have loved ones serving. I think you will not.
    It is the American solder that enables some to be the disrespectful fools that they are.

    If the USA was to retreat all forces back to homeland and just watch things would go to he'll in a hurry and those being foolish may change their views.



    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    If I just take a contrarian view to whatever you post about the market, I'd expect to be a wealthy man in weeks...

    Oil prices tumble after Saudi Arabia says production is coming back online - CNN
    Hello Milland,
    You can , obviously do what ever you wish, but even if I'm wrong, when will you re-enter the market? What is the severity of the downside here, that your crystal ball is showing you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    Until it doesn't. You're likely right in the short term. However, at some point people lose faith in the institutions that are ripping them off.
    Doubtful. The market does not reflect goodwill. It reflects profitability and future earnings. You could do a whole lot of good that would throw stocks down. Most of the trading is done by large institutions - they don't care about those things - they care about what sectors/stocks have value and will go up over the longer term. There are plenty of things I would like to see done politically/fiscally that would make the S&P go down. It's not a relevant yardstick for this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyc123 View Post
    Doubtful. The market does not reflect goodwill. It reflects profitability and future earnings.
    You've forgotten the French Revolution so quickly ? fickle fickle

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyc123 View Post
    Doubtful. The market does not reflect goodwill. It reflects profitability and future earnings. You could do a whole lot of good that would throw stocks down. . .
    Well, I'd agree with both you and E.G. that we can do good that won't be reflected in higher stock prices. But, on the flip side, when errant captains of industry really screw up and consumers notice, growth and stocks drop.

    We have a history of boom and bust. Otrit seems to be somewhat of the perpetual boom persuasion - thinking anything from spending more on nukes to bombing Saudi oil facilities is reason for jubilation.

    In my own working time, there have been economic crises about every ten years.*. Each typically accompanied by a loss of consumer / citizen confidence. Growth plummets. Stocks drop. Also seems that in each cycle since around 1970, the middle class loses a bit more ground.

    My basic point is that there is little reason to believe consumers and citizens won't be disappointed yet again. Could also be we're accumulating enough debt (financial, climatic, trust, allies, etc.) that we may be really disappointed the next time around.

    boombust.jpg



    *e.g the fraudsters behind the Savings & Loan crisis, Dot.com BS bubble, sub-prime Great Recession, etc.

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    Some things in the world change so fast they often go unnoticed.

    YouTube

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    Saudis accuse Iran as being behind drone attacks on Oil infrastructure.

    It does not make any sense this happening unless that it is so bad a action that it is thought no one can believe how dumb a move this might be. Except for the fact the attack actually happened it is a serious attack and likely will bring a response from someone. Too bad the US tends to get involved with Saudi when the countries who use Saudi Oil a lot feel they can just wait for the US to act.

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    It might be good for countries who buy Saudi Oil to feel real shortage and high prices.

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    From what I've gathered, the attack was a combination of cruise missiles and drones. Apparently they came from the direction of Iraq or Iran. There will be radar tracks and imaging, and a forensic analysis of the weapons.

    There will be some kind of declassified report once the analysis is complete. The Houthis could not plan and carry out this scale of coordinated attack on their own. I'm expecting IRGC/QF fingerprints, have to wait and see....

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    Well let's see, higher oil prices for a while or a massive war that will make Iran and Afghanistan look like a walk in the park?

    I suspect a lot of those pushing for war with Iran don't have children at or near draft age. And make no mistake about it, if we get a major war going there WILL be a draft. The mechanisms have already been put in place and just require activation.

    There have been too many military "strikes" in recent years based on shaky intelligence, much of it coming from countries who'd like nothing more than for the U.S. to fight their enemies as a proxy.

    I'm not exactly a pacifist but I'm no warmonger either.

    "What do you call a thousand warmongers at the bottom of the ocean?"

    "A good start."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    Saudis accuse Iran as being behind drone attacks on Oil infrastructure.

    It does not make any sense this happening unless that it is so bad a action that it is thought no one can believe how dumb a move this might be. Except for the fact the attack actually happened it is a serious attack and likely will bring a response from someone. Too bad the US tends to get involved with Saudi when the countries who use Saudi Oil a lot feel they can just wait for the US to act.
    Of course the Saudis accuse Iran and if they can get the USA to fight for them then they'll be happy. Palestinians get used by several of the Arab countries against Israel.

    I don't believe for a minute Iran fired the drones but probably sold/gave then to whoever did. What would be ironic would be if it was US drones that were used. Would the USA go to war against the USA if it were US drones that attacked?

    Don't sell weapons to foreign countries. Ally one day, enemy the next.

    29 Largest Armies In The World - WorldAtlas.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Well let's see, higher oil prices for a while or a massive war that will make Iran and Afghanistan look like a walk in the park?

    I suspect a lot of those pushing for war with Iran don't have children at or near draft age. And make no mistake about it, if we get a major war going there WILL be a draft. The mechanisms have already been put in place and just require activation.

    There have been too many military "strikes" in recent years based on shaky intelligence, much of it coming from countries who'd like nothing more than for the U.S. to fight their enemies as a proxy.

    I'm not exactly a pacifist but I'm no warmonger either.

    "What do you call a thousand warmongers at the bottom of the ocean?"

    "A good start."


    I surely understand your concern Scotti,

    But there is very little here to be overly concerned about. The damaged facilities will be up and running again within a few weeks.

    The Saudis and Israel are very capable of defending themselves, but they both know that the sanctions are working and it's only a mater of time before Iran collapses from within.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Well let's see, higher oil prices for a while or a massive war that will make Iran and Afghanistan look like a walk in the park?

    I suspect a lot of those pushing for war with Iran don't have children at or near draft age. And make no mistake about it, if we get a major war going there WILL be a draft. The mechanisms have already been put in place and just require activation.

    There have been too many military "strikes" in recent years based on shaky intelligence, much of it coming from countries who'd like nothing more than for the U.S. to fight their enemies as a proxy.

    I'm not exactly a pacifist but I'm no warmonger either.

    Could very well be the plan from Iran to close off oil deliveries setting a flame to military tensions in the region. Everyone suffers with Iran that way.

    "What do you call a thousand warmongers at the bottom of the ocean?"

    "A good start."
    I hope there is not a major war and doubt there will be. It would really disrupt business if that happened. I do think something will happen to those connected in Yemen.

    Always we should never be influenced by those who are too ready for war. What you say is a good point except the fact is there is a volunteer Military and that would not change unless required. Looks like Iran feels the blowback will make everyone suffer with Iran.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    ...Don't sell weapons to foreign countries. Ally one day, enemy the next.
    You better tell your neighbors while you're at it. And you're going to have to give up your little air force, because you can't build those jets in Denmark.

    The value of US arms exports will grow as the F-35 comes online. If you exclude F-35, we are about 30% of global arms exports. 36% if you include F-35. About half our exports are aircraft to our allies, and a lot of that is made up of transport class and patrol aircraft like C-17 and P-8.

    The EU is the source for 27% of global arms exports. France and Germany dramatically increased their arms exports to Egypt in the last 5 years, and 59% of UK arms exports go to Saudi Arabia.

    European Union

    Exports from Western Europe's top 5 have risen by 2% since 2009, with a particular focus on the Middle East.

    France saw a huge increase of 261% to the region, with Germany coming in second at 125%.

    Italy's grew 75%, while UK exports grew 30%.

    As the world's biggest importer of arms, Saudi Arabia is a crucial client for many countries, but in particular for France, the UK, Spain and Sweden.

    Seven European countries make the top 10 of world's major arms exporters | Euronews

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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    The Saudis and Israel are very capable of defending themselves, but they both know that the sanctions are working and it's only a mater of time before Iran collapses from within.
    Might want to check your facts on these statements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    The Saudis and Israel are very capable of defending themselves, but they both know that the sanctions are working and it's only a mater of time before Iran collapses from within.
    I do wonder about this. There has been a pretty clear attempt by the media to cover up what has happened as a result of tariffs/sanctions by the White House. There was a really good article a while back in the Nikkei on North Korean sanctions that were placed that were higher than they had been, and it choked the hell out of their trading. Then there's the tariffs on China and their effect that gets glossed over or selectively ignored. There was the trouble with Turkey where the lira was in freefall because of sanctions, and then there's Iran with sanctions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    You better tell your neighbors while you're at it. And you're going to have to give up your little air force, because you can't build those jets in Denmark.

    The value of US arms exports will grow as the F-35 comes online. If you exclude F-35, we are about 30% of global arms exports. 36% if you include F-35. About half our exports are aircraft to our allies, and a lot of that is made up of transport class and patrol aircraft like C-17 and P-8.

    The EU is the source for 27% of global arms exports. France and Germany dramatically increased their arms exports to Egypt in the last 5 years, and 59% of UK arms exports go to Saudi Arabia.
    You missed my point which was, don't make and sell weapons or there's more than a good chance they'll be used against you.

    Add to that the fact that it's too big a business so that won't happen. Just think of all the useful stuff that could be made and sold for the money.

    List of countries by military expenditures - Wikipedia

    For defense? Who's kidding who?


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