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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    It is scary when we see that local government will have to give massive tax breaks to attract jobs to a area. .
    its not scary, its wrong. Get your fiscal house in order and lower taxes for all (if you think that is the main thing attracting jobs) rather cutting special deals to who ever has 1) lobbied the hardest, 2) contributed to campaigns the most, 3) will lead to the best headline or 4) who simply happens to be a buddy. Its another form of favoritism and corporate welfare; taxpayers should be incensed about this and thinking capitalists everywhere should reject it. I'm creating jobs in my business, working and pay tax so the #[email protected]#% politicians can give it to another company? All so some crooked provincial leader gets the get shovel turning ceremony headline? GRRRRRRR

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    Tax breaks and concessions increase the tax level of the local population.

    Tom

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    Tax breaks and concessions should increase the number of people paying taxes, buying things, keeping up property values, supporting local businesses.
    If not then yes, a bad investment.

    Flint gave all kinds of tax breaks to GM through the 60s, 70's, 80's. and many complained it unfair.
    Now we don't have these tax breaks to complain about anymore.
    I think things were better in my town when we were giving millions in such breaks, corporate welfare or whatever you'd like to call it.

    Very arguably they were not directly paying enough taxes to support the infrastructure they were using and it's cost to the local government.
    They were however providing many paychecks that paid all sorts of taxes.
    All the concessions in the world would not have changed what happened but the local effect when these non tax-paying entities left can't be denied.

    Sort of a death spiral.
    Money is needed but fewer to pay in. Higher tax rates are then needed but the population can't pay it.
    So a government desperate to work in a budget without cash cuts corners everywhere they can, even on your water supply.
    Funding for law enforcement goes down the tubes and the police force shrinks.
    The local gangs take over "policing or protecting" neighborhoods. They extract a "tax" of their own for said service.

    Looked at with a narrow view such giveaways are bad but it's a very complicated equation.
    I'd take a tax free zone any day to have the 80,000 jobs back.
    Bob

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  7. #184
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    is that a rare civilian promotion of pork barrel politics lol? Think big picture. Politics and gov is supposed to create an environment with all treated equally...not pick and chose. If lower industrial taxes are the key to attracting business, then lower them for all. Hows it not wrong for two businesses, possibly competitors, and one pays all the tax so other doesn't have to be because some government crook pointed the finger at one? What if the mayor who I know came by and gave me zero tax and you the finger, that ok with you? its just complicated?

    Next up, what net is accomplished? A tax break isn't creating jobs, its moving them from one place to another. Think of the hardship in the place the plant is leaving because some politician decides to shoulder their tax burden on their citizens in the new place. The net results is NOT new jobs, its broke municipalities and citizens suffering the tax burden; as you described it the death spiral. Just make it illegal to pick favorites, tax should apply equally to all.

    Knowing corporate welfare is wrong and that the rules and the law should apply equally to all is NOT a complicated equation. Its when your politicians push that aside and start doling out cash for the headlines that things get complicated. In Ontario there is a provincial law forbidding municipalities from offer tax incentives. It works very well, is never an issue and the economy has been very strong for a long time. The municipalities still compete with each and try to have the lowest industrial taxes, but its by having the lowest cost for all businesses there, not doling out to a select few. (While municipal politicians can't do that here, our past provincial crook sure did. , thats another sad tale)

    I'm all for lower tax, but it should not be discretionary. There is a strong argument backed up by lots of evidence that industrial growth tends to happen in places that tax it less. So tax it less if you want industrial growth, but don't play favorites.

    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Tax breaks and concessions should increase the number of people paying taxes, buying things, keeping up property values, supporting local businesses.
    If not then yes, a bad investment.

    Flint gave all kinds of tax breaks to GM through the 60s, 70's, 80's. and many complained it unfair.
    Now we don't have these tax breaks to complain about anymore.
    I think things were better in my town when we were giving millions in such breaks, corporate welfare or whatever you'd like to call it.

    Very arguably they were not directly paying enough taxes to support the infrastructure they were using and it's cost to the local government.
    They were however providing many paychecks that paid all sorts of taxes.
    All the concessions in the world would not have changed what happened but the local effect when these non tax-paying entities left can't be denied.

    Sort of a death spiral.
    Money is needed but fewer to pay in. Higher tax rates are then needed but the population can't pay it.
    So a government desperate to work in a budget without cash cuts corners everywhere they can, even on your water supply.
    Funding for law enforcement goes down the tubes and the police force shrinks.
    The local gangs take over "policing or protecting" neighborhoods. They extract a "tax" of their own for said service.

    Looked at with a narrow view such giveaways are bad but it's a very complicated equation.
    I'd take a tax free zone any day to have the 80,000 jobs back.
    Bob
    Last edited by Mcgyver; 04-07-2019 at 12:20 PM.

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  9. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    is that a rare civilian promotion of pork barrel politics lol? Think big picture. Politics and gov is supposed to create an environment with all treated equally...not pick and chose. If lower industrial taxes are the key to attracting business, then lower them for all. Hows it not wrong for two businesses, possibly competitors, and one pays all the tax so other doesn't have to be because some government crook pointed the finger at one? What if the mayor who I know came by and gave me zero tax and you the finger, that ok with you? its just complicated?

    Next up, what net is accomplished? A tax break isn't creating jobs, its moving them from one place to another. Think of the hardship in the place the plant is leaving because some politician decides to shoulder their tax burden on their citizens in the new place. The net results is NOT new jobs, its broke municipalities and citizens suffering the tax burden; as you described it the death spiral. Just make it illegal to pick favorites, tax should apply equally to all.

    Knowing corporate welfare is wrong and that the rules and the law should apply equally to all is NOT a complicated equation. Its when your politicians push that aside and start doling out cash for the headlines that things get complicated. In Ontario there is a provincial law forbidding municipalities from offer tax incentives. It works very well, is never an issue and the economy has been very strong for a long time. The municipalities still compete with each and try to have the lowest industrial taxes, but its by having the lowest cost for all businesses there, not doling out to a select few. (While municipal politicians can't do that here, our past provincial crook sure did. , thats another sad tale)

    I'm all for lower tax, but it should not be discretionary. There is a strong argument backed up by lots of evidence that industrial growth tends to happen in places that tax it less. So tax it less if you want industrial growth, but don't play favorites.
    Sustainability is a big thing. Giving tax incentives for wealthy corporations is in principle defeating the purpose of having taxes is not very fair to wealthy or not businesses. It is like specific tax cuts also like reducing the corporate tax. When this is done it reduces taxes for the whole category equally.

    It is endless it seems when started that deciding to make the practice against the law is refreshing in a real way. Sports teams will often move their team to another area if tax cuts provided expire. Each state, city, or locality have advantages and disadvantages such as energy resources, labor, educated workforce and other factors.

    California (I like California) has a higher tax rate than many States yet they have a lot of very profitable businesses there in the State. It appears (or could be implied) that higher taxes attracts businesses and maybe highlights a important factor and that is lifestyle or quality of life. How tax monies are spent for the greater good of citizens is very important also and it is a selling point to attract business.

    Detroit was very hot for some time yet despite all that money, profits, and high pay the city society declined. A highly responsive government which faithfully serves the public interest is a critical feature of a working society. Corruption will eventually destroy this and so respect and the enforcement of the rule of law is critical. When you mention making it (tax breaks) against the law it makes sense.

    Just making tax breaks equal adds real clarity with a law and yet down the road another place may choose to give tax breaks. There must be other factors besides tax cuts which would make different places competitive quality of life being one factor I can think of.

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    You're wading into who and what shouldn't be taxed, a whole different subject and no doubt wll be highly contentious. (btw most economists would say you really can't tax corporations, as all a tax does is reduced retained earnings which at some point down the chain has an individual as it's beneficial owner). My point was much simpler (I'd hope entirely uncontentious) than what category should be taxed, being that fiscal policy should be a framework universal applied based on criteria, not something politicians get to pick and chose which particular entities it applies to ....which is (I think) mostly the case with municipal negotiated tax incentives.

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    Its extremely simplistic to say that industrial growth happens in places that tax it less. That might be true, but only if all other factors were equal- infrastructure, financial system that is regulated enough to be safe and trustworthy, a working justice system, a working transportation network, educated populace, and a dozen other major factors.
    But, the thing is, even in the USA, those factors are NOT the same from state to state, or even within states.

    So we have plenty of examples of places with low tax rates, but so many other undesirable factors, meaning profitable industries and manufacturers choose higher tax areas because the total package makes it possible to be a more profitable business.

    NYC, or California (really, the whole West Coast) or London, or Singapore, or Hong Kong- all examples of places with higher taxes, and yet, are big magnets for business.

    Taxes are one factor- but, often, given how low actual net tax rates are on corporations in the USA, often a pretty minor one.
    Tax rates are more of an ideological burr under the saddle than a practical concern for most US businesses.
    I made more money in Los Angeles, consistently, even though the taxes are pretty high- because there was so much business going on in every field. Most people have no idea how much manufacturing goes on in LA- its enormous. There is a steel mill, and pretty much every kind of manufacturer there you can imagine. Bigger, more professional platers, or anodizers, or sandblasters, than in whole states in other parts of the country.

    Certainly individuals, especially retired ones, move more based on tax rates. But Boeing, or Microsoft, or Haas, or a few dozen other of the largest and most profitable companies (and exporters) in the USA still keep building more in high tax areas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    Its extremely simplistic to say that industrial growth happens in places that tax it less.
    sure, but all things being equal, of course it does. I think its obvious a statement like that implies all things being equal, and equally obviously (i hope) its one of many factors. You're hardly going located your billion $$ company HQ in the Sudan because taxes are 10% lower. Having been in the advisory position to fortune 500's on making those decisions, it as absolutely guaranteed an important factor on where business locate.....along with a list of other criteria.

    I guess we're saying the same thing, but a good example of how impactful lower taxes are was the development pattern in the GTA where pretty everything is the same on either side of an imaginary line vs the other, except industrial taxes. There was an exodus to the low tax area.

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    There are advantage and disadvantages for automation. Its good that everything is automated nowadays it makes life easier and efficient but on the downside lots of jobs for man power industry will be decrease.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    sure, but all things being equal, of course it does. I think its obvious a statement like that implies all things being equal, and equally obviously (i hope) its one of many factors. You're hardly going located your billion $$ company HQ in the Sudan because taxes are 10% lower. Having been in the advisory position to fortune 500's on making those decisions, it as absolutely guaranteed an important factor on where business locate.....along with a list of other criteria.

    I guess we're saying the same thing, but a good example of how impactful lower taxes are was the development pattern in the GTA where pretty everything is the same on either side of an imaginary line vs the other, except industrial taxes. There was an exodus to the low tax area.
    Moving 5 miles in the Greater Toronto Area is one thing- but much more common in the USA is a computer assembly firm deciding whether or not to move to rural Wisconsin, or within 100 miles of Silicon Valley, where there are subs who specialize in every obscure factor of computer parts.
    Or BMW, deciding between adding capacity in South Carolina, where, over the years, 100 different subcontractor factories have sprung up, versus lower taxes in, say, Louisiana, where everything needs to be trucked in 500 miles.

    all things are almost never equal.
    Greater Toronto may be one of the very few areas in North America where a 25 mile move gives you everything the same except some (but certainly not all) taxes being lower.

    In most cases, industrial development happens in clusters, and is based on easy access to transportation, employees, and subcontractors and suppliers.
    The big tax giveaways in the USA have happened in remote, largely rural states, with generally not much else to recommend them besides tax give-aways and cheap, but unskilled, labor.

    This has worked in a few cases, usually when a European or Japanese company with a long history of extensive employee training is willing to commit for long term investments- it took close to a decade for each of the Southern US auto making areas to reach the level of support and infrastructure to mean the plants were really profitable. They needed cooperation with glass factories, wiring harness plants, local community colleges, utility companies, and the local government on many levels, much more than just a single, initial tax break, or a lower net corporate tax rate- which, most corporations do not actually pay at all.

    It can work when somebody like Amazon wants to build a server farm, which means very few jobs, almost no traffic, and just needs cheap real estate, cheap power, and cheap taxes. Or a distribution center, where you want a few hundred people to pack boxes for the lowest possible wage. Again, no need in either case for much infrastructure beyond a road.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    its not scary, its wrong. Get your fiscal house in order and lower taxes for all (if you think that is the main thing attracting jobs) rather cutting special deals to
    I don't know if it's really that cut and dry.

    What if let's say I as a business owner with perhaps 80% involved in aerospace manufacturing decide that I'm too single sided, and try to break into a different market, medical for example,
    and in order to do so I cut my shop rate by 10-20% for non-aerospace work.
    Or, what if I find a person who I'd really need and would like to have on the team, and decide to hire him at a considerably higher wage than average, even if it means stealing it from someone's employ?

    Now turn this around and look at it from the perspective of a local or state government.
    What-if the state has an over abundance of low skilled labor force, but not enough businesses to absorb them.
    Or perhaps there is an existing infrastructure that is necessary for the state's current operation - say roads, railroads, ports, shipyards etc. - but it is way under utilized or running a deficit even.
    Or perhaps a state decides to increase it's involvement in a specific field - medical, high-tech, aerospace etc. - for the hopes of future growth.

    Is it really wrong for a local or state government to take necessary steps towards achieving their goals?
    And if the method of doing such is by way of tax incentives, then so what? Who is helping who? Who is being wronged?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeymourDumore View Post
    Is it really wrong for a local or state government to take necessary steps towards achieving their goals?
    And if the method of doing such is by way of tax incentives, then so what? Who is helping who? Who is being wronged?
    Fiscal policy is key way government achieves its objective, agreed. However policy is just that, a framework that applies too all. What I object to playing favorites, some politician picking an individual firm for preferential treatment over other firms in the same situation. That's not policy, that's pork barrel stuff. i.e. every one occupying an industrial building in municipality X pays Y psf in tax. Some politician shouldn't get to decide one particular company gets to pay 1/10 Y. That's not a policy, that is favoritism.

    I don't buy your comparison to a businesses looking at getting into a new market. Businesses are suppose to act in their own interests to the exclusion of others and there is no obligation for equal treatment. Government has an entirely different mandate. Its to establish that framework applying blindly to all, not just to Bob Smith at 123 Industrial Blvd. Business, being out for itself, is free to give Bob preferential treatment, but its the worst slippery slope once we start thinking that's ok for politicians to do. If there was an analogy to business it would be you work for someone else but arbitrarily, at your discretion, and contrary to normal pricing, ring a sale up to someone, buddy, cute girl, whatever at 90% off - should the owner be ok with that?

    So long as the rules applies equally to all, no issue. Its when the rules is like this tax break is specifically for Bob and no one else that I have a problem. That's when you move from government making policy to pork barrel nonsense and what I object to. A fiscal policy of say lower industrial taxes or faster depreciation on capital spends, lower taxes for an environmental cleanup etc etc are legitimately policy not pork barrel as they don't have a politician picking and choosing which individual benefits, anyone meeting the criteria is treated equally

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    I don't buy your comparison to a businesses looking at getting into a new market. Businesses are suppose to act in their own interests to the exclusion of others and there is no obligation for equal treatment. Government has an entirely different mandate. Its to establish that framework applying blindly to all, not just to Bob Smith at 123 Industrial Blvd. Business, being out for itself, is free to give Bob preferential treatment, but its the worst slippery slope once we start thinking that's ok for politicians to do. If there was an analogy to business it would be you work for someone else but arbitrarily, at your discretion, and contrary to normal pricing, ring a sale up to someone, buddy, cute girl, whatever at 90% off - should the owner be ok with that?
    I think we'll just have to agree to disagree about the validity of the comparison.

    Sure, if Company A, B and C is in the very same line of business, then equal treatment by government is absolutely expected.
    If OTOH Company A is say Caterpillar but the state is looking to boost it's presence in the pharmaceutical field, an incentive by way of tax benefits to Company B who
    happens to be Pfizer is OK in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeymourDumore View Post
    I think we'll just have to agree to disagree about the validity of the comparison.

    Sure, if Company A, B and C is in the very same line of business, then equal treatment by government is absolutely expected.
    If OTOH Company A is say Caterpillar but the state is looking to boost it's presence in the pharmaceutical field, an incentive by way of tax benefits to Company B who
    happens to be Pfizer is OK in my opinion.

    I don't know that I at all want a government pulling the strings what business is considered good and what is bad (there is SO much wrong with that) , but what if Rouche was already in the municipality? still ok to give a freebie to Pfizer but charge Rouche full fair? Or are you saying you think it ok to charge real estate taxes based on what industry they are in (vs the characteristics of their industry, i.e polluting polluting or not, retail, manufacturing, office etc )?

    R Its a slippery slop when a politician gets to pick and choose like that. Why not instead figure out what fosters and attracts the type business you want and offer it to all rather than one company a politician selects? It works perfectly here. Also, as I said, Its not creating jobs, its shifting them with a clearly negative net result - unfair taxation of some companies while others have a free ride and taxes shifted to citizens and no net increase in anything.

    Politicians getting to picking and choose who pays and who doesn't? If m BIL is mayor and says I don't pay but you do, I doubt that would be ok with you? Why? Its much of a stretch as when politicians have that discretion it will get dirty.

    I guess i'm am fundamentally opposed to those elected to a democratic government doling money to specific individual firms they arbitrary choose. I don't think its right and I resent paying taxes into that environment.

    If we brainstormed we could come up with a long list of legitimate policy items that would likely encourage pharma industry locating there. Implement those, then its blind and applies to all ......and is sustainable - those that move there do so for real reasons vs cash inducement by some politician picking their favourite company.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    i'm am fundamentally opposed to those elected to a democratic government doling money to specific individual firms they arbitrary choose to. Its not right and I resent paying taxes into that environment.

    .
    See, I might be looking at that from a different perspective.
    Crooked politicians aside, I am not thinking it's doling money to a specific firm, rather a specific industry or profile that best suits the needs of the particular area or government plan.

    In your example, if Roche was already in the state, and the state has so planned that it wants to become a pharmaceutical powerhouse, made investments in the field of training, additional
    laboratories etc, then sweetening a deal to convince Pfizer to relocate ... Why not?
    Now if Roche pipes up and is looking to get the same or similar deal in order to stay in the state? Well, if that is the means to an end, then so be it and give it to them as well.

    Let's not forget that it is a business deal after all with a quid-pro-quo. The State agrees to do X for Company A, who in turn agrees to provide Y for the State, whatever those demands be.

    But again, we can simply agree to disagree.

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    Historically government does pass laws to foster certain needed industries even subsidizing them to a very large extent. This was done for the so called robber barrons and likely it will continue to be the case in the future. It kicks pure capitalism right in the hind. That is the way of things and likely not to change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeymourDumore View Post
    See, I might be looking at that from a different perspective. . .

    Seems to me that both you and Mcgyver could be right.

    As Mcgyver says, it's hard to justify giving one firm in an industry a break, at the expense of its competitors.

    As you suggest, there can be all sorts of policy reasons why we might want to accelerate investment and the experience curve in particular industries; in order to better compete locally or nationally in the years ahead.

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    I think you have be specific. First my objection has zero to do with encouraging an industry. There are all kinds of good ways to encourage say pharma, but real estate taxes were suggested. If that's what you want, just make real estate for pharma X% and Y for everyone else. I think that is terrible idea (for real estate tax!) as, there are better ways to encourage the result you want as it deviates from the spirit and logic of real estate tax methodology, which is well understood,entrenched and more or less far.

    However, as a bad policy as that would be (done via real estate taxes), it would be a policy - a set of rules known and open to all. That is hardly what I object to (Which I tried to be clear about, but must have failed.) The objection is politicians picking individual companies for a reward - which btw for the most part is exactly how municipal tax concession are done! A big firm has a bake off with a bunch of municipalities and they drop their drawers on taxes for 10 years for example - its done specifically for that company. i'm surprise anyone would have issue with objecting to that given the unfairness, obvious opportunities for abuse and that nothing is net accomplished job wise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    . If that's what you want, just make real estate for pharma X% and Y for everyone else.
    Yupp, that is what I was trying to point out. Targeted incentives based on what is best for the locality.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    I think that is terrible idea (for real estate tax!) as, there are better ways to encourage the result you want
    Can you elaborate please?
    But since I am in the state of Connecticut,...
    How can the State of CT encourage Silicon Valley to relinquish it's stronghold on computing tech?
    How can the State of CT encourage Detroit to relinquish it's stronghold on automobile tech?
    How can the State of CT encourage Texas to relinquish it's stronghold on oil research tech?

    In our case, we have UTC, P&W, and we have Sikorsky. We used to have GE-corporate as well.
    Hartford CT used to be known as the Insurance Capital.
    Why is it wrong if the state of Connecticut decides to build on that heritage ( on it's own accord ) and give freebies to continue said heritage for as long as it can?
    And, in the meanwhile saying the hell with oil extraction, coal mining, solar technology, chemical research or whatever else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeymourDumore View Post
    Can you elaborate please?
    I appreciate the polite request - Spinit, this place is improving

    I don't think we are disagreeing with an outcome or that government should have their hands tied, its just that how attempt to do this carries real dangers and unintended consequences

    Why (imo) its a bad idea to start tweaking real estate taxes based on industry sector. New topic, its not what I objected to earlier, and it would be a legitimate policy, just not a really good one imo.

    1)Real estate taxes are an extremely broad tax base, its hard to think to think of a tax with more jurisdictions. It works on two simple principals - charge based on the value, and charge based on the type of use. I think there is simple logic to that, value would roughly equate to ability to pay and use would equate to the impact to the municipality and community. Reason one, it works, its simple, its fair, is understood and given the huge number of collecting jurisdictions, there is a lot of risk tampering with that - law of untended consequences.

    Secondly, the huge potential for abuse. If municipal politicians get to pick tax based on industry sector, the potential for abuse is endless. Here's $5000, lower the tax on dog leash manufacturers, Mayors BIL has GM dealership so town lowers the tax on car dealerships starting with G. It would endless and produce exactly the result you don't want - business success based on politics versus the merits of a good business.

    Good bureaucracy has to transcend politicians and election cycles. Can you imagine the economic anarchy if businesses developed based on rewards from municipal politicians, and then every four years they changed it up? It would be an economic disaster, decrease global competitiveness (punishing business that are viable while propping others that are not) and have a huge human toll with a big increase in frequency of business failures (as their sector fell out of favour)

    The most important reason though is it encroaches on why private enterprise models succeed vs socialist ones. Remember socialist models are those where the means of production are owned or controlled by the state. Giving politicians the ability to financially reward sectors just because they like them, starts to look like an element of central planning control. Business is suppose to succeed based on its merits, efficiency, meeting the needs of market etc, not whether its favour with a politician. Its advantage over socialism is the decentralized decision making. I believe putting that lever in politicians hands contravenes the basic reasons why the system works better than other systems. I shudder at the notion of system where the government will determine hardware is better than software say, let alone that we want an Apple and not a Microsoft. Its not what government is suppose to do.

    We see some of the fourth point happening at the federal and provincial/state level. I don't think its right there either (corporate wealfare), but least there are a smaller number of jurisdictions who are (hopefully) a little better than scrutinized than thousands of municipalities.

    But since I am in the state of Connecticut,...
    How can the State of CT encourage Silicon Valley to relinquish it's stronghold on computing tech?
    How can the State of CT encourage Detroit to relinquish it's stronghold on automobile tech?
    How can the State of CT encourage Texas to relinquish it's stronghold on oil research tech?
    First of all, I the notion of what is a good or bad idea also needs to be viewed in a national context. As soon as you start giving companies money directly to induce a result that would not happen on its own, its a danger sign that that test may fail or at least be on shaky ground.

    How would you propose to get those industries? Maybe you can't, maybe its not the best thing to get in any event. But if you want to, imo, the right approach is for jurisdictions to think in terms of the results they want and the characteristics of economic development that provide that, NOT financial inducements to industry sectors or individual firms. That's the only way to have a even playing field and keep the government out of picking ponies and pork barrel hand outs. You as a municipality or state could certainly target pharma, but do so on the merits of your competitive commercial industrial tax base, great school system, educated diverse workforce, and on so on....but keep fiscal policy transparent and even playing field

    You might decide you want to attract knowledge bases business with lots of highly paid STEM workers. Brainstorm what those business want and start to figure out how to deliver it .....and in end, who cares what company you get or what sector provided it has the characteristics of the corporate citizen and employer you want?

    And, in the meanwhile saying the hell with oil extraction, coal mining, solar technology, chemical research or whatever else.
    I'm guessing your issue is with some result or characteristic of having these around? So deal with that, penalize infractions, don't giving drilling licenses or mining permits in any area where it could hurt things (kind of all them), regulate waste etc. I'm not saying what to do, I'm saying there is a very long list of options, with teeth, that do not involve the slippery slope of politicians picking sectors and companies. No one is saying government should not have an active role in this stuff, just that its wrong to do it via tax incentives awarded out by politicians to specific sectors

    Why is it wrong if the state of Connecticut decides to build on that heritage ( on it's own accord ) and give freebies to continue said heritage for as long as it can?
    Government taxing people to carry on a business not sustainable on its own? yes I see lots wrong with that.


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