The effect of automation in Manufacturing in the world - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    How can anyone profit from Automation when they are not engineering and making these robots?
    The owners profit quite nicely.

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    I was taught in school (Pre College) that the future held great advances in farming with machines harvesting crops. True the reality seems to be the human factor does not damage crops as much when the crop is sensitive to rough treatment. I get that. It means that human labor is important in this case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    I was taught in school (Pre College) that the future held great advances in farming with machines harvesting crops. True the reality seems to be the human factor does not damage crops as much when the crop is sensitive to rough treatment. I get that. It means that human labor is important in this case.
    In truth automation has had a huge impact on AG.
    What used to take weeks and hundreds of workers now takes days and one guy in a big machine.

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    I do work for several wineries here and the good ones hand pick all the grapes. Others have picking tractors that pick everything on the vine, bird nests and all. The guys doing the hand picking are selling their wine for right around $100/bottle and cant make enough of it.
    Another thing that comes to mind is the Apple/small screw threads. I think the point was that no USA shop was going to do a run of 30k screws, it was not worth tooling up. Point is there is a point where automation is not worth it if qty is to low.
    I mainly do architectural metalwork, some hand forged stuff, custom to each project. This could never be automated. I do not worry about a robot taking my work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    I do work for several wineries here and the good ones hand pick all the grapes. Others have picking tractors that pick everything on the vine, bird nests and all. The guys doing the hand picking are selling their wine for right around $100/bottle and cant make enough of it.
    Another thing that comes to mind is the Apple/small screw threads. I think the point was that no USA shop was going to do a run of 30k screws, it was not worth tooling up. Point is there is a point where automation is not worth it if qty is to low.
    I mainly do architectural metalwork, some hand forged stuff, custom to each project. This could never be automated. I do not worry about a robot taking my work.
    Yes there is always the point of rapidly diminishing returns. You have a good business based upon architectural metalwork.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    You have a good business based upon architectural metalwork.
    Only as long as people are willing to spend money, one good thing about Calif is there are plenty of people who have money to spend. Work may slow down or dry up but it wont be due to a robot.

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  11. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    Printing technology is very fascinating to me also. I sure wish I had money to invest in things. Early on in this area I knew it would be very good investing in printer technology. Not so sure this automates anything yet Printing tech is able to do a lot of amazing things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    I do work for several wineries here and the good ones hand pick all the grapes. Others have picking tractors that pick everything on the vine, bird nests and all. The guys doing the hand picking are selling their wine for right around $100/bottle and cant make enough of it.
    Another thing that comes to mind is the Apple/small screw threads. I think the point was that no USA shop was going to do a run of 30k screws, it was not worth tooling up. Point is there is a point where automation is not worth it if qty is to low.
    I mainly do architectural metalwork, some hand forged stuff, custom to each project. This could never be automated. I do not worry about a robot taking my work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    Yes there is always the point of rapidly diminishing returns. You have a good business based upon architectural metalwork.
    There’s a difference between bespoke or artisan products and production.
    My dress fedora is hand made, my work hats cost 10% but are pretty much stamped out.

    Remember also there’s an entire class of products that can exist exclusively because of automation.
    Hard drives, semiconductors, even assemblies like tablets and phones.
    Cars are far safer and generally better because of automation.

    Then there’s a class of white collar automation.
    I can do things in an afternoon with Solidworks and Office that would take a dozen people a week in the 70s.
    This trend really started in civil engineering, earthworks, drainage, lot closures, surveying...all became heavily automated in the 80s

    Purchasing agent? Nope. I can half a dozen quotes in my inbox in th morning.
    One of the last bastions is genuine applications engineers that have a knowlege base beyond the catalog specs...but even there I can see machine learning expanding those capabilities dramatically.

    Just eliminating the walk to the fax machine is an act of automation.
    Productivity is up, as are profits, but not wages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    In truth automation has had a huge impact on AG.
    What used to take weeks and hundreds of workers now takes days and one guy in a big machine.
    Current cotton pickers that harvest6 does at once while compressinginto round module and wrapping it in plastic for on site storage is one ag example.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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    Automation is the creation of technology and its application in order to control and monitor the production and delivery of various goods and services. It performs tasks that were previously performed by humans. Automation is being used in a number of areas such as manufacturing, transport, utilities, defense, facilities, operations and lately, information technology.

    Hasn't automation been around almost as long as humans? If of course it falls into "tasks that were previously performed by humans" then that includes using dogs for hunting and protection.

    As to it taking jobs then if that's the case why does the population keep on increasing? The Industrial Revolution (250 years ago) caused things to accelerate and it doesn't look like slowing down any time soon.

    Just look at "How is it made?" in Youtube and see a few of the things we just take for granted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Quiring View Post
    Current cotton pickers that harvest6 does at once while compressinginto round module and wrapping it in plastic for on site storage is one ag example.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
    Hell thats oldschool.
    These days the combines drive themselves harvesting grain and corn...gps guided.
    Drones measure growth and drainage profiles for higher productivity.

    Similar technology guides big earth movers, detail graders and road placement.

    All designed with automation and verified with one guy and a gps total station.

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  18. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Automation is the creation of technology and its application in order to control and monitor the production and delivery of various goods and services. It performs tasks that were previously performed by humans. Automation is being used in a number of areas such as manufacturing, transport, utilities, defense, facilities, operations and lately, information technology.

    Hasn't automation been around almost as long as humans? If of course it falls into "tasks that were previously performed by humans" then that includes using dogs for hunting and protection.

    As to it taking jobs then if that's the case why does the population keep on increasing? The Industrial Revolution (250 years ago) caused things to accelerate and it doesn't look like slowing down any time soon.

    Just look at "How is it made?" in Youtube and see a few of the things we just take for granted.
    Why does the population increase?
    Did your dad skip the birds and bees?

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    I worked for an automation company in the early 90's. They were the first to automate putting razor strips onto plastic blade holders for disposible razors. Had multiple patents on the assembly of medical devices for IV drip assemblies and catheters. They sold a lot of machines to the medical device industry.

    In other words automating the assembly of products that wouldn't be feasible to made by hand by humans.

    Last machine they made was the slowest dumbest largest machine they ever made. Conveyor went at a snails pace. Rubber seals were placed into an automotive connector and then snapped together, probably not any faster than a human could do it.

    We asked the engineer, "this machine isn't really any faster than what a few humans could do"

    He said it's required to be automated "because where we are in Kansas, we can't find workers who can turn up sober, and clean from drugs, 5 days a week, week in week out"

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    I worked for an automation company in the early 90's. They were the first to automate putting razor strips onto plastic blade holders for disposible razors. Had multiple patents on the assembly of medical devices for IV drip assemblies and catheters. They sold a lot of machines to the medical device industry.

    In other words automating the assembly of products that wouldn't be feasible to made by hand by humans.

    Last machine they made was the slowest dumbest largest machine they ever made. Conveyor went at a snails pace. Rubber seals were placed into an automotive connector and then snapped together, probably not any faster than a human could do it.

    We asked the engineer, "this machine isn't really any faster than what a few humans could do"

    He said it's required to be automated "because where we are in Kansas, we can't find workers who can turn up sober, and clean from drugs, 5 days a week, week in week out"
    Or ask for raises, unionize, get sick, get overtime, file harassment suits.

    People are a pain in the ass.
    Ideally there should be nothing between the owners and the customers’ bank accounts but a single email.

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  23. #34
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    I don't buy into the whole automation is going to ruin the job market. The job descriptions may change but there will still be plenty of jobs. Machines can't maintain themselves, can't program themselves, and can't troubleshoot themselves...yet

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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    I don't buy into the whole automation is going to ruin the job market. The job descriptions may change but there will still be plenty of jobs. Machines can't maintain themselves, can't program themselves, and can't troubleshoot themselves...yet
    Replace 100 workers with two maintenance people.
    Do the math.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    I do work for several wineries here and the good ones hand pick all the grapes. Others have picking tractors that pick everything on the vine, bird nests and all. The guys doing the hand picking are selling their wine for right around $100/bottle and cant make enough of it.
    Another thing that comes to mind is the Apple/small screw threads. I think the point was that no USA shop was going to do a run of 30k screws, it was not worth tooling up. Point is there is a point where automation is not worth it if qty is to low.
    I mainly do architectural metalwork, some hand forged stuff, custom to each project. This could never be automated. I do not worry about a robot taking my work.



    Never say never!

    Tom

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    Gordon laments about the effects of automation and increase of population.

    A little more than 150 years ago, about half the population was involved in agriculture. Over the last hundred years the percentage of people involved has diminished to just a few percent, in developed countries. In that same time frame, crop production has exploded and food became so widely available the population exploded as well. Without cheap available food populations would have grown at much lower levels.

    Between internal combustion engines, chemical fertilizers, genetically manipulated plants and, automation and, AI the production of food is as industrialized as any industry. The pickers that hand pick fruits and vegetables including wine grapes are still used in high value select crops. In feed and grain crops the automation process is almost entirely automated, from GPS driven seeder doing 24-32 rows in a pass to the moisture meters that signal when the harvesters come in to reap and shuck the crops.

    We have millions of head of hogs, cattle, sheep and foul growing and being processed like row crops at twice to five or six times as fast as grazing livestock. Food and feed stocks are grown so efficiently that exports of commodity grain and feed stocks are mega businesses unto themselves. Simply put a few percent 2-3% feed billions of people.

    That level of automation is possible in perhaps half to three quarters of all production processes, from fast food to orthopedic surgery Yea there will still be some jobs a fraction of what we have today. As noted, it is as much about dependability and consistency as it is about ability. There will always be SOME jobs, there just won't be the ratio of jobs to workers we envision today.



    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in SoCal View Post
    Gordon laments about the effects of automation and increase of population.
    Steve
    No I most certainly did not. Read again what I wrote.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    No I most certainly did not. Read again what I wrote.
    I did and, must have missed something in translation. Population growth is a function of having the fuel, food to grow. Just because there is billions of people doesn't mean they have jobs that produce goods or services.

    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    The owners profit quite nicely.
    Owners are supposed to do that,that is why they invest.
    Without their investment you don't have a job,get over it.

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