The effect of Taxation on American High tech by France of three percent - Page 6
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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    Back on topic - the 3% the French want for digital firms operating within their country - should it be used sensibly for things like business infrastructure and the productivity (education, health care) of their citizens -- strike me as just the sort of thing I'd like to see more of in the US.
    Given that France has - more than once - been described with a fair degree of accuracy - as the only remaining Communist nation on-planet (other "official"'claimants having devolved to dirt-common autarchies..)?

    And how the French manage to even screw that up with boring regularity?

    Seems the mutations off what was once the "Democratic Party" are lining up to grant that wish.

    We mought be more careful what we wish for - or at least VOTE for - lest we vote in a cure rather worse than the alleged disease just because the "opposition" is too damned lazy, incompetent, or confused to actually field cannibals for public office who are NOT "worse".

    Haven't we seen this movie already?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Given that France has - more than once - been described with a fair degree of accuracy - as the only remaining Communist nation on-planet (other "official"'claimants having devolved to dirt-common autarchies..)?

    And how the French manage to even screw that up with boring regularity?

    Seems the mutations off what was once the "Democratic Party" are lining up to grant that wish. . . .
    Yeah, it's easy to bet against the French. I do give Macron some credit for trying to restore a mix of sanity - balancing business, budget, and social needs. But with only something like a 40% approval rating to show for it.

    And, yup, some of the Democrat candidates are pretty scary as well. Instead of borrowing to make the rich richer, they'd borrow to make the poor still no better equipped for the future.

    Be nice, though, if the center-left and center-right could reassert themselves. There's more than enough of us in the middle to take back the country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    . . . Maybe we don't need a wall between us and Mexico, we need one between us and D.C. . . .
    Well, there's some truth to that.

    Finance has generally put money into both Republican and Democrat campaigns, assuring access. More of their money went to Republican candidates throughout most recent decades, including the 2016 midterms. These days the instability of Trump on things like trade and tariffs has them worried enough to throw a bit more to moderate Democrats. That said, most of Wall St. is banking on a second Trump term: 70% of Wall Street thinks Trump will be reelected in 2020

    It seems to me that it is vested financial (and energy, defense, pharma, etc.) interests that rule the roost here. But as you say, politicians are complicit. We now have a system where politicians spend most of their time begging for campaign funds, the sources of that money are increasingly hidden (thanks to Citizens United etc. and a packed Supreme Court), and on most any issue the laws and regulations we get aren't what a majority of citizens want but what the most influential donors want.

    Personally, I don't see Trump's obstructions, Cabinet choices, failures to even hold press conferences, lies, tax and regulatory give-aways etc. as moving us toward reform -- unless it's some sort of revulsion and push back. And Democrats, with just a few exceptions, seem bent on giving voters a choice of someone both inexperienced and far left of the mainstream. A more vigorous Biden, maybe with Warren as an understudy VP, might be as good as they will muster??

    I can think of a dozen important issues for 2020 (jobs, education, nuclear proliferation and war, health care, financial reform, climate, infrastructure, R&D . . .). But instead it looks like it will be about a self-amplified immigration crisis in the border, with one side decrying all the murderers and rapists and brown people from shit-hole countries -- and the other thinking, hey, let's just welcome anyone who wants to walk on in. Whatever happened to sensible, bi-partisan immigration reform? And real progress on all those other issues?

    If we managed to just get full financial disclosure on campaign contributions -- and more citizens spent less time in their favorite media corner (Breitbart, Fox, MSNBC, Workers World?) -- we might make a start on it. Anyone remember Lawrence Lessig's 2016 campaign?? Not sure how we're going to get back true public servants, until they see citizens rather than donors as their bosses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post

    Maybe we don't need a wall between us and Mexico, we need one between us and D.C.
    That would solve problems for 99% of us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazygoat View Post
    That would solve problems for 99% of us.
    It already has.

    DJT being a congenital shit-stirrer, the clowns inside the Capitol beltway are all at war, 24-7-365 with each other.

    Rest of the country gets the equivalent of free studio wrestling, a shared figurehead to go bug-f**k rabid to hating over so no need to kick yer own dog nor beat yer wife.

    Meanwhile, said clowns are too busy with the "war" to prevent we chickn's from making a living.

    Strange way for a President to add value, but it works way better so far than whatever is in second place, worldwide, even if only by accident.

    I'm actually good with that.

    Always was Americans as make America WHATEVER it is. Not our temporary arseholes on their 2, 4, 6, or 8 year rotations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    Well, there's some truth to that.

    Finance has generally put money into both Republican and Democrat campaigns, assuring access. More of their money went to Republican candidates throughout most recent decades, including the 2016 midterms. These days the instability of Trump on things like trade and tariffs has them worried enough to throw a bit more to moderate Democrats. That said, most of Wall St. is banking on a second Trump term: 70% of Wall Street thinks Trump will be reelected in 2020

    It seems to me that it is vested financial (and energy, defense, pharma, etc.) interests that rule the roost here. But as you say, politicians are complicit. We now have a system where politicians spend most of their time begging for campaign funds, the sources of that money are increasingly hidden (thanks to Citizens United etc. and a packed Supreme Court), and on most any issue the laws and regulations we get aren't what a majority of citizens want but what the most influential donors want.

    Personally, I don't see Trump's obstructions, Cabinet choices, failures to even hold press conferences, lies, tax and regulatory give-aways etc. as moving us toward reform -- unless it's some sort of revulsion and push back. And Democrats, with just a few exceptions, seem bent on giving voters a choice of someone both inexperienced and far left of the mainstream. A more vigorous Biden, maybe with Warren as an understudy VP, might be as good as they will muster??

    I can think of a dozen important issues for 2020 (jobs, education, nuclear proliferation and war, health care, financial reform, climate, infrastructure, R&D . . .). But instead it looks like it will be about a self-amplified immigration crisis in the border, with one side decrying all the murderers and rapists and brown people from shit-hole countries -- and the other thinking, hey, let's just welcome anyone who wants to walk on in. Whatever happened to sensible, bi-partisan immigration reform? And real progress on all those other issues?

    If we managed to just get full financial disclosure on campaign contributions -- and more citizens spent less time in their favorite media corner (Breitbart, Fox, MSNBC, Workers World?) -- we might make a start on it. Anyone remember Lawrence Lessig's 2016 campaign?? Not sure how we're going to get back true public servants, until they see citizens rather than donors as their bosses.
    What happened to real issues?
    Mitch McConnell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    What happened to real issues?
    Mitch McConnell.
    Surprised you didn't claim AOC & the "squad" had it all back on track and running to plan arredy if only off the back of the unlimited credit-line on their Platinum "racist" card.


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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Surprised you didn't claim AOC & the "squad" had it all back on track and running to plan arredy if only off the back of the unlimited credit-line on their Platinum "racist" card.

    trump is a racist, no card required

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    The debt we're racking up today, to slash taxes mostly at the top, will be paid by a next generation. It's borrowed money.


    Back on topic - the 3% the French want for digital firms operating within their country - should it be used sensibly for things like business infrastructure and the productivity (education, health care) of their citizens -- strike me as just the sort of thing I'd like to see more of in the US.
    Suggesting the issue in France are not enough tax just defies all logic. 20% vat, 9% unemployment, back of the pack median wages and perhaps the worst environment for business in the EU. All supply and demand, there is too much supply and not enough demand for labour because of decades of an environment almost hostile toward business. If you read up on their business environment, no wonder no one picks France as place to expand or open a new plant. And look who loses in the end?

    Your country as well. The problem is hardly that you don't tax enough, its how you spend it. There's some sweet spot where tax is necessary and there is a great return on it, past that, tax is a sea anchor on an economy.

    I do agree about the debt...cutting taxes without cutting spending and allowing debt to grow does seem a bit nuts....but it may all work out when the big devaluation occurs. Night guy whoops it up and morning guy suffers....but who cares about that? Promise what thae masses want to hear and do whatever will get you elected, either party because all that matters is winning so fuck morning guy.

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    I think the point is that companies like Google are doing business in France [or the UK, or US or...] and not paying taxes there

    I am not sure this is the answer but it is an issue that probably needs to be addressed

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    sure, but hand wringing over transfer prices is as old as the hills. All that really works is 1) create a positive business environment so and industry actually opens there (France is a disaster in this regard) and 2) have a globally competitive corporate tax structure so businesses doen't mind pay tax there and possibly even reinvesting retained earnings.

    Taxes on revenue, like a royalty, largely become a price increase to the customer. The people of France don't need things more expensive because of a tax - they are already at the back of the bus. Take Amazon for example, I think they made a 4.5% profit last year, and some bright spark things a 3% tax on revenue isn't just going end up being carried by the consumer?

    Just make your environment attractive to business, demand for labour increases so labour rates goes up, taxes get paid, more retained earnings will stay there, domestic business will grow to service the local BigCo etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    trump is a racist, no card required
    Keep repeating it and some day it might come true.

    Just keep calling everyone a racist the new "N" word for the left. Ready available to dehumanize your opponent so you can easily ignore any thing they say no matter how logical because "My feelings!"

    How long before those horrible "racists" need to be identified with a tattoo and a arm band with a big red R.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    trump is a racist, no card required
    We need no newcaster come to tell us he's a card-carrying member of the KKK. This is and has always
    been painfully obvious to all. The more racist he is, the more accolades from his base voters. As they
    say, not a bug, it's a feature.

    Biden? Biden is basically a republican.

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    Yes adding on a tax extra does cost someone and that someone will pay for it. He producers of services and products cutting prices or the citizens who buy will end up paying. When a tax is implemented it tends to be absorbed one way or the other.

    Tax is paid by the companies which employ people because they have jobs and pay them. Is there some kind of infrastructure tax for roads or electricity which would go unpaid without this tax or is it a attempt to replace lost tax revenue? I think it could be after the fuel tax increase did not work out and was eliminated this attempts to replace that.

    It can be seen as foreign companies paying it for the prize of doing business in France. Whatever the reason there will be a time when taxation will become so much that a downturn in the economy occurs. Europe has a good bit of taxation already.

    I see the extra tax will be paid and something will go up in price/cost. Amazon makes a low profit margin like a large chain Supermarket and turns it over quickly. Food and clothing are important needs and Amazon sells a huge Amount of things which are not basic needs and often is reasonably priced. I know prices vary yet the results from Amazon proves their model is successful. Raise a cost and it gets put into their system and adjustments will occur in one place or another. Amazon will not absorb the cost in favor of losing profit and why should they?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMasochism View Post
    Keep repeating it and some day it might come true.

    Just keep calling everyone a racist the new "N" word for the left. Ready available to dehumanize your opponent so you can easily ignore any thing they say no matter how logical because "My feelings!"

    How long before those horrible "racists" need to be identified with a tattoo and a arm band with a big red R.
    He was racist in business
    he was racist as a candidate

    you want to deny your support for a full on proud racist, whatever, that is who he is and has been

  18. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    . . . DJT being a congenital shit-stirrer, the clowns inside the Capitol beltway are all at war, 24-7-365 with each other. . .
    I used to think having different parties in control of the Senate/House/Executive/Judiciary -- plus complete partisanship and gridlock -- wasn't all that bad. But there are too many real problems to be addressed to have that the new normal. All that does is leave finance with it's finger on most everything and defense, pharma, medical insurance, energy etc. to divide up a good part of the rest. And the paid-by-sponsors mud wrestling show (pick your daily outrage) as seen on Fox, CNN, etc. as a diversion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    I used to think having different parties in control of the Senate/House/Executive/Judiciary -- plus complete partisanship and gridlock -- wasn't all that bad. But there are too many real problems to be addressed to have that the new normal. All that does is leave finance with it's finger on most everything and defense, pharma, medical insurance, energy etc. to divide up a good part of the rest. And the paid-by-sponsors mud wrestling show (pick your daily outrage) as seen on Fox, CNN, etc. as a diversion.
    One could "wish for" a better situation, yes.

    But WTF has happened to the Democratic Party?

    I'm actually beginning to believe that their "real decision makers" have realized they CANNOT prevent a second-term for DJT and are instead taking the opportunity to draw-out the Socialist nutters and burn them out off the back of failure, 2020.... with malice aforethought.

    That could STRONGLY position a blowback that supported moderate/centrist Dems taking the Presidency if not also both houses of Congress - and EASILY SO - 2024. You KNOW they can. Ripofflicans do "complacent" and "arrogant" and "blindsided (yet, again)" better than anything else they play at.

    "Real" Dems seem to be playing the "long(er) game", IOW, as they don't have much other choice, near-term, yah?

    Maybe they are not as foolish in private as they act in public, after all?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    Taxes on revenue, like a royalty, largely become a price increase to the customer. The people of France don't need things more expensive because of a tax - they are already at the back of the bus. Take Amazon for example, I think they made a 4.5% profit last year, and some bright spark things a 3% tax on revenue isn't just going end up being carried by the consumer?
    So, much the same as tariffs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    So, much the same as tariffs?
    Why the "?" (question mark...Mark?

    Now "Consumer" isn't always a solitary individual or family. Coporations are "consumers". Government Agencies are "consumers", NGO / non-profit entities and Political parties are also "consumers".

    Not always of the same goods, services, lies, or empty promises.... but the point is..

    There IS NO OTHER SOURCE of paying. For any of it. Only consumers.

    Bluntly, that is why they are CALLED "consumers". The last-mile. The one that goods or services stop with - no longer passed-on to the next buyer.

    No one can hand-off the demand for payment, tax, or tariff, by using the gold out of a pot at the end of the rainbow, nor Mrs. God's Platinum Card.

    This, BTW, is why there is no such thing as "Government" money, nor "free" lunch.

    Costs are either being handed-off to the next player. Or absorbed at the final stop. A "consumer". Of whatever type.

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    [QUOTE=CAMasochism;3385171
    How long before those horrible "racists" need to be identified with a tattoo and a arm band with a big red R.[/QUOTE]

    No need. they already have lots of armbands and ink. Last time this happened we had to firebomb dresden to make it stop.
    Time before that we had to burn atlanta to the ground and march to the sea.

    I'm getting fucking tired of trump pandering to nazis and KKK assholes.


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