The effect of Taxation on American High tech by France of three percent - Page 7
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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    I'm getting fucking tired of trump pandering to nazis and KKK assholes.
    Must have missed that show.

    But if it wearies the self-inflicted fools, tools, fascists, and demented Bolsheviks with low/no threshold of even IMAGINED suffering in their quest for victimhood ...before it has even begun?

    Maybe he should start.


    You have any special way you like to be pandered to?



  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    So, much the same as tariffs?
    Taxes rend to be much more permanent to me really.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    No need. they already have lots of armbands and ink. Last time this happened we had to firebomb dresden to make it stop.
    Time before that we had to burn atlanta to the ground and march to the sea.

    I'm getting fucking tired of trump pandering to nazis and KKK assholes.
    Jim let’s avoid trailing down the Nazi , KKK race thing. We see enough anyway without dwelling strongly here.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    Taxes rend to be much more permanent to me really.
    Primary difference, actually, is that taxes are generally more pervasive than tariffs.

    A fee (whichever it was) levied on tea, "long ago", had no impact at all on those who brewed local "tea-like" beverages, drank water, milk, cider, or beer.

    A tax on salt - a major disinfectant as well as a/the primary food preservative, same era and prior, not just seasoning at-table, affected nearly everyone, even if only indirectly. Goods or services purchased from others may have depended on salt, even if the buyer otherwise did not. Tea, not so much. Fuel or electricity vs imported cigars might be better modern-day examples.

    I'd class taxes, as a tribe, as harder to avoid than tariffs. Lifestyle or purchasing choices are not good enough.

    "Permanent" can be taken as a given, as it is RARE for a tax to EVER be retired, once implemented, though tariffs are being adjusted constantly.

  5. #125
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    FWIW, the current issue of The Economist has a center section devoted to global supply chains and the effect of tariffs in dismantling them. Worth a read. It's a major disruption to larger manufacturers.

    Among the highlights - even when the initial tariffs went into place by the end of 2018, they were costing US consumers around 15 billion a year. For 2019, companies like Cat & Deere figure they'll cost something like $300 million (Cat) and $150 million (Deere). Likely bigger numbers for Boeing, Apple, etc. Bigger hit would be if these end up costing these companies long term market share.

    While tariffs might be temporary, damage to companies whose customers find other sources might be permanent. Flip side, of course, is understanding just where IP and business is already being stolen and reversing that. Disclosures like the UK ambassador leaks -- or Trump's numerous tariff flip flops -- don't give me a whole lot of confidence anyone in Trump's increasingly disgraced and dismantled cabinet is really attending to this.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    FWIW, the current issue of The Economist has a center section devoted to supply chains and the effect of tariffs in dismantling them. Worth a read. It's a major disruption to larger manufacturers.

    Among the highlights - even when the initial tariffs went into place by the end of 2018, they were costing US consumers around 15 billion a year. For 2019, companies like Cat & Deere figure they'll cost something like $300 million (Cat) and $150 million (Deere). Likely bigger numbers for Boeing, Apple, etc. Bigger hit would be if these end up costing these companies long term market share.

    While tariffs might be temporary, damage to companies whose customers find other sources might be permanent. Flip side, of course, is understanding just where IP and business is already being stolen and reversing that. Disclosures like the UK ambassador leaks -- or Trump's numerous tariff flip flops -- don't give me a whole lot of confidence anyone in Trump's increasingly disgraced and dismantled cabinet is really attending to this, beyond the our Tweeter-in-Chief.
    As a former member, USWA, born just one year before my native Pittsburgh produced more steel in a single year (1946) than the entire rest of the world COMBINED - other very proud and capable US mill cities included - I cannot shed the least tear for those firms you mention - nor hundreds of others - taking a loss.. off the back of having exported their own core business, and long ago.

    Tough shit that they can no longer count on banking gold from US consumers off the back of offshore facilities. If CAT, Boeing, or Apple cannot compete off US staff and facilities carrying a share of US wages and taxes?

    F**k 'em! Twice over.

    At least if one buys an Asian-brand, made in Asia, or a European brand, made in Europe, there is no great mystery as to who gains, nor at which end of the transaction.

    And NO UN-EARNED US POLITICAL INFLUENCE.

    Kowtowing to US-in-name-only firms to help them avoid a fair bargain with their country and customers was not TRUMP's invention.

    He's actually TRYING to undo that sort of s**ty deal.

    Whether you embrace "TDS" or otherwise, the MONEY is moving in a direction healthier to the US taxpayer.

    Votes will probably follow as well - 2020 cycle. TDS or otherwise.

    "Deplorables" are actually right smart at grocery-store 'rithmetic, and WILL take the best routes to insuring they git to EAT reg'lar like.

    What attraction d'yah suppose is in "Medicare For All" "Free College" and the $60,000/year, EACH tax bill to the self-reliant and healthy as didn't NEED a near-as-dammit HANDICAP of a University's so-called "education" and don't get as sick as leftist snowflakes to begin with?

    "Democratic Socialist" may sell, tragically - but even if it does, it cannot last.

    Simple 'rithmetic again. Enterprise success can be repeated. Many times. Over a long life. Generation after generation.

    Socialist suicide can only go the one round. About one human lifetime, 70-75 years.

    Then the looters have to go quiet, skip a generation, wait for a new generation of the lazy and gullible to parasitize.

  7. #127
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    [QUOTE=thermite;3385429]Must have missed that show.

    Now, I *know* you don't live under a rock. Unless that's true, you've been aware of the
    antics in the white house recently. Avoid discussing nazis and the KKK? Well that means
    leaving out most of the front page nowadays. After all, lots of fine folks. On both sides.

    Right? Unless, you happen to be a black woman member of congress. Then it's 'dark underbelly' time.

    All they're missing, are the white sheets and the flaming crosses.

  8. #128
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    [QUOTE=jim rozen;3385452]
    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Must have missed that show.

    Now, I *know* you don't live under a rock. Unless that's true, you've been aware of the
    antics in the white house recently. Avoid discussing nazis and the KKK? Well that means
    leaving out most of the front page nowadays. After all, lots of fine folks. On both sides.

    Right? Unless, you happen to be a black woman member of congress. Then it's 'dark underbelly' time.

    All they're missing, are the white sheets and the flaming crosses.
    For a reasonably competent craftsman, you are awfully LAZY about digging for facts, and incredibly foolish to prattle that outright nonsense - propaganda of the most dishonest sort - to folk who are a great deal LESS lazy and DO bother to go and research things, bulls**t or otherwise.

    THIS.. is how that other misguided old fool who just recently suicided at an ICE-contractor's facility must have started out. With a burning anger over his chosen set of delusions being at odds with the real world.

    As has been CNN of recent years. Lazy, dishonest, and angry over their own self-inflicted disconnect from reality.

    So much so, they are having trouble finding enough TDS-afflicted victims to earn the coin to keep their lights on.

    Check the ratings.

    In a manner of speaking, "Valdez is coming!" Or already has.

    Most of our media not only have their heads up and locked where the sun shineth not, they are in a terrible quandry over WHICH orifice, and ON WHOM to seek their next home up-into.

    Couldn't happen to a more deserving set of liars.

  9. #129
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    I have to respect the Democrats for not firing back at Trump that his wife and mother are both illegal Alliens. And since his mother was an illegal she should never have met his father and he should not have been born, if the laws had been enforced.
    Bill D.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    I have to respect the Democrats for not firing back at Trump that his wife and mother are both illegal Alliens. And since his mother was an illegal she should never have met his father and he should not have been born, if the laws had been enforced.
    Bill D.
    Aw f**k.

    just when poor old Jim was gittin' ready to file for the patent on stupidity, and retire a VERY rich man off the royalties?

    YOU have to come along, prove "prior art", and screw another Seniour Citizen out of a crust!


  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post

    There IS NO OTHER SOURCE of paying. For any of it. Only consumers.

    Bluntly, that is why they are CALLED "consumers". The last-mile. The one that goods or services stop with - no longer passed-on to the next buyer.

    No one can hand-off the demand for payment, tax, or tariff, by using the gold out of a pot at the end of the rainbow, nor Mrs. God's Platinum Card.

    This, BTW, is why there is no such thing as "Government" money, nor "free" lunch.
    What I want for Christmas is a world where this didn't need to be explained. But it does and we're too old to believe in Santa so the perpetual shit show will continue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    What I want for Christmas is a world where this didn't need to be explained.
    Short journey. No other form of life on the entire planet as is not subject to it.
    "Root, hog. Or die" started with single-cell organisms. If-even yet "cellular" or "organisms".

    Only a subset of humans can convince theyselves that the self-anointed among them are immune.

    That their brand of looting is "new" and will become the first generation to not simply run out of victims.

    That ain't "new" either. Parasites are waaay older than primates.
    Even so? The most successful ones don't kill-off their hosts right away. Or even necessary at all.

    Makes a body wonder.

    What is it that a tapeworm or a roundworm "knows"... that a Socialist does not know?


  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    . . I cannot shed the least tear for those firms you mention - nor hundreds of others - taking a loss.. off the back of having exported their own core business, and long ago.

    Tough shit that they can no longer count on banking gold from US consumers off the back of offshore facilities. If CAT, Boeing, or Apple cannot compete off US staff and facilities carrying a share of US wages and taxes?

    F**k 'em! Twice over.

    At least if one buys an Asian-brand, made in Asia, or a European brand, made in Europe, there is no great mystery as to who gains, nor at which end of the transaction. . . .
    My guess is you haven't spent much time in Caterpillar, Deere, and Boeing plants? I have -- a couple dozen of them -- and they're good manufacturers, still producing much of their product in the US. Apple, not so much.

    Each of those companies has been #1 worldwide in their markets. In autos it's now VW and Toyota neck and neck. And the reason VW and Toyota do so well, is pretty much the same as for Cat, Deere, and Boeing: they sell to the world and have plants and employees around the world. Toyota, for example, has 30,000 employees in the US. So, not trying to serve all of India from Peoria made (and still makes) sense. With Boeing, the sales of aircraft are so political that part of being able to sell to, say, Japan or Korean airlines is having things like wings and wing-tips built in those countries, then shipped to the US for final assembly.

    Just as Bernie is wrong to brand all the 1% as leaches (some of our 1% have created tremendous value, while others are mostly skimming it), so not every company with a global manufacturing footprint has sold out.

    I would agree that once you see a company formerly headed by engineers (interested in the product) or even sales guys (the better ones interested in the customer) -- and turned over to some financial type interested in playing numbers games to get a bonus -- then we get problems. That's happened too many times in recent decades. But many of our world-leading manufacturers still deserve at least a modicum of respect.

    As for Trump fixing the US balance of trade, like the immigration and nuclear proliferation crises, histrionics have only made it worse. Click the 10 year tab to see the run up to 2016 and then 2016 to 2019: United States Balance of Trade | 2019 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    .. many of our world-leading manufacturers still deserve at least a modicum of respect.
    They earn it, they get it.

    ELSE not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    They earn it, they get it.

    ELSE not.
    I'm not too sure that Caterpillar is worried about your opinion, dear.

    When you design and build something better than a D11, let us know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    I'm not too sure that Caterpillar is worried about your opinion, dear.
    What with the paltry sum of a billion US-dollars - due for just two of the years they chose to f**k with the IRS , and more still coming - they've no time for it, no.

    Don't even get me started on what hoors Boeing has degenerated into to save a buck-three-fifty an hour on software wages, avoid testing, forget that angle-of-attack sensors must be no-fail or fail-safe. PM already has that covered, elsewhere.

    I said "earn" respect. Not "f**k-your-country and let customers DIE for it".


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