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  1. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    no you mean how you beleive the ukranians were doing that

    or maybe that trumpski is just as lying and corrupt as he has been for the last 40 years, and he owes a lot of money to Russia, and oh, all his policy decisions hurt us and benefit vlad, and oh, the piles of evidence, and people in prison because of his corruption
    I can't find any content in the above that can even slightly relate to the OP.

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  3. #322
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    Michigan gas tax is 19 cents, fed tax is 18 and governor Whitmore wants to raise it Michigan tax 45 cents so total would be 79 cents per gallon.
    Plus, loss of the taxes paid by oil companies and income tax of the oil workers, gas station workers and the like would have to come from other sources..
    That is the rest of the story many seem to be ignoring.
    Agree we likely will all/most be driving EVs in the near future but thinking it will be free or even much lower priced when all true costs are added is just stupid, people are just kidding themselves or being hoodwinked..
    and money to pay for the incentives...where does free come from?

    Even the price of wind power is being misrepresented. I have not seen the cost of renting property, maintenance and longevity for replacement, storage, transmission costs added to the forecasts of costs.

    Here is one answer to that question from Newsweek.
    What's the True Cost of Wind Power?

  4. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMasochism View Post
    Is that the only thing your simple mind can come up with when confronted? POINT POINT POINT! Maybe ONCE in your your POINTLESS life open your eyes and you will see a point?

    Where in your post that I quoted is the point other than the mass hysteria conspiracy theory that Russia somehow has a mass hold on the US government? Take off your tin foil. Or maybe do a favor and drink some more Cool Aid.
    says the king of the kool aid drinkers, the man who knows his hero is a liar and a cheat and so he calls everyone else a liar and a cheat, who knows his hero spews conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory, so he claims everyone else is spewing conspiracy theories

    Even trumpskis buddy Lindsay Graham publically stated trumpskis Ukraine crap was BS

    on to the next lie
    Blah Blah Blah nothing is too bizarre for you to believe, but stacks of evidence, statements under oath are false, but rumour and lies, oh, that is what you believe

  5. #324
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    So lets sum up the right wing bobble head points here, if we can

    Even though EVs are faster, cheaper to run and need less maintenance, they suck

    They are useless until the infrastructure is fully built out

    Even though 90 percent of the average owners charging is going to be done in off time, the charging wait time is a deal killer

    Any money that goes to anyone who is not a right wing bobble head is wasted

    Oh, and now they are too ugly

    Think I got that covered

  6. #325
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    Perhaps it might help make the case if you would share your personal experiences as a BEV owner in the often snowed-in Northeast.

    You DO own one don't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    So lets sum up the right wing bobble head points here, if we can

    Even though EVs are faster, cheaper to run and need less maintenance, they suck

    They are useless until the infrastructure is fully built out

    Even though 90 percent of the average owners charging is going to be done in off time, the charging wait time is a deal killer

    Any money that goes to anyone who is not a right wing bobble head is wasted

    Oh, and now they are too ugly

    Think I got that covered

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  8. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Perhaps it might help make the case if you would share your personal experiences as a BEV owner in the often snowed-in Northeast.

    You DO own one don't you?
    Why not ask the thousands[and thousands] who do?

    Do you think you have some sort of point?

  9. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    I can't find any content in the above that can even slightly relate to the OP.
    SHall I follow all your fact filled posts in all sorts of topics by you that are unrelated to the topic

    pot, kettle, etc

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  11. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Michigan gas tax is 19 cents, fed tax is 18 and governor Whitmore wants to raise it Michigan tax 45 cents so total would be 79 cents per gallon.
    Plus, the taxes paid by oil companies and income tax of the oil workers would have to come from other sources..
    That is the rest of the story many seem to be ignoring.
    Agree we likely will all/most be driving EVs in the near future but thinking it will be free or even much lower priced when all true costs are added is just stupid, people are just kidding themselves or being hoodwinked..

    Even the price of wind power is being misrepresented. I have not seen the cost of renting property, maintenance and longevity for replacement, storage, transmission costs added to the forecasts of costs.

    Here is one answer to that question from Newsweek.
    What's the True Cost of Wind Power?
    SO a Koch funded writer is the best you can do? And why is he mentioning Obama's budget, is this an older retread?

    Energy costs analysis: Why wind broke into the mainstream in 2018 | Windpower Monthly

    You may not like the source, but look at the difference in the articles, and the amount of technical information in my link

    Lets for a second pretend climate change is real, what are the actual costs of burning fossil fuels and how would one add them into the equation

    [edit] it appears really outdated, using 7 and 8 year old numbers to support a tenuous theory,oh wait it is 4 years old

  12. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Why not ask the thousands[and thousands] who do?

    Do you think you have some sort of point?
    “He does not believe that does not live according to his belief.”
    ― Sigmund Freud

  13. #330
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    Wind power prices now lower than the cost of natural gas | Ars Technica


    The levelized cost of electricity, which eliminates the impact of incentives and subsidies on the final prices, places wind below $40/MW-hr in 2018. The cheapest form of natural gas generation was roughly $10 more per MegaWatt-hour. Note that, as recently as 2015, the US' Energy Information Agency was predicting that wind's levelized cost in 2020 would be $74/MW-hr.
    ...........
    That figure is notable, as having over 30% of your power supplied by an intermittent source is a challenge for many existing grids. But there are a number of states that have now cleared the 30% threshold: Kansas, Iowa, and Oklahoma, with the two Dakotas not far behind. The Southwest Power Pool, which serves two of those states plus wind giant Texas, is currently getting a quarter of its electricity from wind. (Texas leads the US with 25GW of installed wind capacity.)
    ........
    Better grid management also helped the economics of wind. At times, strong winds can cause wind farms to produce an excess of power relative to demand, causing a farm's output to be reduced. This process, called curtailment, remained a small factor, with only 2% of the potential generation lost this way. Put differently, if the curtailed electricity had been used, it would have only raised the average capacity factor by 0.7 percentage points

    [edit added quotes]

  14. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Lets for a second pretend climate change is real, what are the actual costs of burning fossil fuels and how would one add them into the equation
    Let's for a second pretend climate change ISN'T real, what are the actual costs of "alternative energy" and how would one add them into the equation?

    Co2 is NOT a pollutant. If it contributes to existing natural climate change is another matter, and despite claims of "consensus" still very much a subject of debate.

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  16. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    “He does not believe that does not live according to his belief.”
    ― Sigmund Freud
    So why don't you move out of the people's republic to a nice red state like Mississippi?

  17. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Let's for a second pretend climate change ISN'T real, what are the actual costs of "alternative energy" and how would one add them into the equation?

    Co2 is NOT a pollutant. If it contributes to existing natural climate change is another matter, and despite claims of "consensus" still very much a subject of debate.
    Let's pretend we need to deal in facts, and you have none, just your right wing bobble head 'sources'

    Wind is cheaper than Nuke, and getting cheaper than gas

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    SHall I follow all your fact filled posts in all sorts of topics by you that are unrelated to the topic

    pot, kettle, etc
    No....We all know your a "Never Trumper", but doo you really need to drag each and every topic down to a pissing match involving your insanity ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    No....We all know your a "Never Trumper", but doo you really need to drag each and every topic down to a pissing match involving your insanity ?
    pot kettle

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  21. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Let's pretend we need to deal in facts, and you have none, just your right wing bobble head 'sources'

    Wind is cheaper than Nuke, and getting cheaper than gas
    likely natural gas is the lowest cost/cheaper energy in the USA. if tax money was not being used to support free stuff.

    Burning 100 dollar bills in the wood stove would be the lowest cost energy if the grubberment would give me $200 for every 100 dollars I burned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    likely natural gas is the lowest cost/cheaper energy in the USA. if tax money was not being used to support free stuff.

    Burning dollar one bills would be the lowest cost if the grubberment would give me $2 for every dollar I burned.
    Please read the links, wind is competitive without subsidy

    Yeah,I get it, any money going to anyone who is not you is wasted

    typical know nothing thinking

    The road in front of your house does not benefit me, so any money spent on it is wasted

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  24. #338
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    Report Confirms Wind Technology Advancements Continue to Drive Down the Cost of Wind Energy

    manufacturing content

    The domestic supply chain for wind equipment is diverse. For wind projects recently installed in the United States, domestically manufactured content is highest for nacelle assembly (more than 90%), towers (75 to 90%), and blades and hubs (50 to 70%). It is much lower (less than 20%) for most components internal to the nacelle. Wind sector employment reached a new high of 114,000 full-time workers at the end of 2018.

  25. #339
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    I see a lot of smoke and mirrors in many of such reports. The potential of wind is much lower when one considers how many wind turbines are facing the wind and how many are not, how many are down, how often the wind does not blow, The projected cost of gas pricing over so many years, tax credits for wind....
    Better would be the output of a wind farm over the total costs.. not the one device.

    Re: QT [trumpski is just as lying and corrupt as he has been for the last 40 years]

    Another thing, I don't like or not like Trump but to be sensible one has to rate what good and what bad he has done for the country ..not how much one likes him.. just more smoke and mirrors.

    Like some don't/did not like Obama because he is black or don't like Bill Clinton because he can't keep his zipper closed. People not weighing the facts like this is very common..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    “He does not believe that does not live according to his belief.”
    ― Sigmund Freud
    There's some people around here stepping up to the plate, then. On a short trip yesterday I started looking at plates - electric plates are different in Shanghai city, easy to tell who is electric. I was surprised. Close to a third of the cars that day were electric. Not sure if hybrid gets those same plates, will have to ask.

    Maybe on a different day things'd be different but electric is certainly taking off here.

    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    I see a lot of smoke and mirrors in many of such reports. The potential of wind is much lower when one considers how many wind turbines are facing the wind and how many are not ...
    They turn, buck. They've got these really cool 2.5 meter slewing bearings that rotate the turbine into the wind.

    I wish people would buy more

    So that looks like $12.500 in taxes somebody other than the car buyer has to pay,plus the incentives for chargers and the like...some body has to make up for the lost taxes..
    Send a note over to AlloyMcGraw, who thinks our corporate leaders are wonderful because they figure out ways to pay no tax

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