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  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    I prefer steam, myself, but too bad

    So next time around, buy a steam tug. That should keep you entertained.

    PDW

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    So next time around, buy a steam tug. That should keep you entertained.
    Already did a steamboat, years ago. It was fun but too much work ... really takes two people to run steam - one for propulsion, one for driving. Seemed excessive on a 30 footer

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    Janie and I have two cars.. We often travel separately over 100 miles one way so would not be in the market for an EV, a third car just for local trips.

    So everyone has their own reasons for what they pick/have/buy/own.

    My paying for someones else's car with my tax money is just robbery of my money and likely little benefit to the green idea.

    But yes the grubberment gets to handle more money and sticky fingers get to touch it...guess we need to give all the grubberment people there own private jet so they can do more of what they do..next to nothing.

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  5. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post

    My paying for someones else's car with my tax money is just robbery of my money and likely little benefit to the green idea.

    .
    And as mentioned, the money for the road in front of your house is obviously robbery since it is of no value to me

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  7. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    And as mentioned, the money for the road in front of your house is obviously robbery since it is of no value to me
    Not so..I use the USA roads so should help pay for them...That was a dumb thing to say...

    Or are you saying that you as a People's Repubic person should not pay for my road..just as dumb a thing to say.

    note; send me $12.000 so I might buy an EV on your tab...

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  9. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Not so..I use the roads so should help pay for them...That was a dumb thing to say...

    Or are you saying that you as a People's Repubic person should not pay for my road..just as dumb a thing to say.

    note; send me $12.000 so I might buy an EV on your tab...
    No it is playing on the ignorance and stupidity of complaining about the government paying for things you do not agree with or do not want

    That is not the deal with governments, you get a lot of benefits that do not do me any personal good, complaining about it is ignorant and short sighted.

    One does not get to pick and choose, one simply gets to vote, and apparently, whine

  10. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    And as mentioned, the money for the road in front of your house is obviously robbery since it is of no value to me
    At last....it is revealed that Gustafson is indeed "Amish"....

  11. #368
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    Back to the subject of the actual cost of power from windmills, there are some situations where they absolutely make economic sense.

    One such case is in the state of Hawaii. Normally electricity is generated by oil-fueled generators and the oil is very expensive because it must be delivered by ship. In this case the fuel savings make up for all costs including the construction, maintenance, and the cost of maintaining and operating the oil-fueled generators that act as backup.

    Rooftop solar is also very popular in Hawaii but as more and more were added they changed the rules. You can either use the electricity yourself to reduce grid consumption or you can sell to the grid at rates similar to wholesale producers but can't do both. This policy is fair to utilities and homeowners with and without rooftop solar and I'd like to see it implemented nationwide as an alternative to net metering.

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  13. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    At last....it is revealed that Gustafson is indeed "Amish"....
    He's something "ish" but I suspect it isn't Amish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    No it is playing on the ignorance and stupidity of complaining about the government paying for things you do not agree with or do not want

    That is not the deal with governments, you get a lot of benefits that do not do me any personal good, complaining about it is ignorant and short sighted.

    One does not get to pick and choose, one simply gets to vote, and apparently, whine
    You should stop..your not making much sense.. I pick and choose what I spend my money on if it is left in my pocket..buying other people things with some of them being richer than me is robbing me of my money..

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    A local greenfield windfarm is selling power into the grid for A$60/US$ 40 per MWHr.(megawatt hr) at the farm gate....is this expensive or cheap ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    A local greenfield windfarm is selling power into the grid for A$60/US$ 40 per MWHr.(megawatt hr) at the farm gate....is this expensive or cheap ?
    We pay about $ .14 per Kw hour for home electric here in Michigan. So that price seems very good/low...but that is the production cost/price.

    What does it cost to buy it for the residential customer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    A local greenfield windfarm is selling power into the grid for A$60/US$ 40 per MWHr.(megawatt hr) at the farm gate....is this expensive or cheap ?
    What time of day & year is this rate ?

    Time of day price changes or (peak demand time) varies, so should supplying when no
    one needs it.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    You should stop..your not making much sense.. I pick and choose what I spend my money on if it is left in my pocket..buying other people things with some of them being richer than me is robbing me of my money..
    No it is not, ever

    IT is the price of living in a representative democracy

    Not implying that some gov't spending is not wasteful or counterproductive.

    but it is not stealing

  20. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    What time of day & year is this rate ?

    Time of day price changes or (peak demand time) varies, so should supplying when no
    one needs it.....
    It depends what other sources are selling power for

    I don't know if it is cheap, but it is competitive

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    You should stop..your not making much sense.. I pick and choose what I spend my money on if it is left in my pocket..buying other people things with some of them being richer than me is robbing me of my money..
    Doesn't fly, buck. For one thing, the US was built on protectionism and such things as public libraries and public schools paid for with tax money. That's how we turned dirt-farmers into technical people. We taxed the crap out of imported goods so that US manufacturing could grow. We built the interstate highways with tax money. We built dams and hydro power with tax money. We electrified rural areas with tax money. We built the transcontinental railroad with tax money. We built the Panama Canal with tax money.

    All of this came out of some people's pockets and went into other people's. We're supposed to elect congressmen smart enough to choose sensible things to build with tax money. Sometimes that works, sometimes not. But every single thing the US has ever done with tax money benefits some group and unbenefits some other group. You can't just pull one item out of the bowl and say "Spending my money on this is bad because it's MY money and you have no right to it."

    You can say something is a stupid waste but the idea of taxes for benefits, well, the US was built on that. Long history, Whiskey Rebellion and all that.

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    I done with this. I am talking about my dollars to buy cars for other people and you seem to be stuck/argue on everything tax dollars are spent on... when I see an EV I think that I helped to pay for that car.
    Some one is going to buy a $125,000 Tesla and I will help pay for it when I'm driving a car worth perhaps worth $6,000...Go figure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    when I see an EV I think that I helped to pay for that car.
    When I see an army base in afghanistan I think "I'm helping pay for that shit". It makes me puke.

    Some things we just gotta get over. Either that or flip out.

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    Buck,
    You also paid for Fermi 1 and Fermi 3. Particularly paid hard if your energy bill says DTE.
    We, our parents or grandparents all bought the interstate highway system and before that railroads.
    Such is the price of progress.
    For reasons good or bad the people we elected have tried to jump start windmills and EVs and this tech overall.
    The market and makers respond to the next quarter of a year.
    One hopes that someone takes a longer view and that means moving money that simply does not make sense today.
    At the time most were functioning just fine without an international highway system or the TVA.

    Of course it tastes bad,... But you just bite the bullet and hope future generations get some benefit.
    Neither of us can predict a win or a loss and certainly bad bets will be made but perhaps it is best to try something in the interest of those who will follow us.

    Doing nothing, cutting all such tax or other advantages leaves corporate interest to rule all and that is all about short term profit and current stock price.
    Once upon a time the big corps may have been concerned about profitability 10-20 years out or a concern for the workforce and the country.
    Those days are long gone and to be real there where few that actually did it.
    Bob


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