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  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    I like to pretend you have a brain because you can, like type in the english language and all, so the only assumption is you cannot read


    one does not, ever need, to charge an EV at home in 3-5 hours, in a power outage

    no real point

    you keep coming up with wildly extreme examples

    You drive home, at the end of charge, while the world around you is on fire, and the power is out, OMG, you forgot to charge your EV.

    IT is just as likely in similar situations, that you would run out of gas, because you forgot to fill your car and cannot get to the station

    they are thoroughly unconvincing

    I am sure, somehow, inside your head, it makes sense.

    Outside of your skull it does not
    ...Until you need to drive to the hospital for an emergency, or leave the area because of a wildfire....

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  3. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    ...Until you need to drive to the hospital for an emergency, or leave the area because of a wildfire....
    And in many jurisdictions, including the state of Florida, require gas stations near interstate highways or along evacuation routes to have provision for backup power so they can continue to pump gas. Many other gas stations have voluntarily chosen to do so. A single gas pump only requires a few amperes so a modest sized generator can run several pumps plus lights and point of sale terminals. Some older small service stations were originally equipped with 30 amp service so that should give some idea.

    And if the backup generator runs on gasoline or diesel they have a ready supply of fuel in the underground tanks.

  4. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    And in many jurisdictions, including the state of Florida, require gas stations near interstate highways or along evacuation routes to have provision for backup power so they can continue to pump gas. Many other gas stations have voluntarily chosen to do so. A single gas pump only requires a few amperes so a modest sized generator can run several pumps plus lights and point of sale terminals. Some older small service stations were originally equipped with 30 amp service so that should give some idea.

    And if the backup generator runs on gasoline or diesel they have a ready supply of fuel in the underground tanks.
    read my links, your beloved Florida 40 percent of the stations ran out of gas before a hurricane
    before the power went out

    silly
    meaningless
    panic stricken


    nothing

  5. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    read my links, your beloved Florida 40 percent of the stations ran out of gas before a hurricane
    before the power went out

    silly
    meaningless
    panic stricken


    nothing
    That was due to poor planning, not some imagined inferiority of gasoline. In many other parts of the country during several major storms they DIDN'T run out of gasoline. What happened in Florida on that occasion was unexpected demand pre-storm as people topped up cars that normally would be half empty and also some bought reserves for generators, chain saws, etc.

    The extra demand should have been anticipated as that is typical human behavior and has been seen many times before.

    Your other links were ridiculous, pointing out a handful of instances of idiots running out of gas. I've never run out of gas in a road-going vehicle since I started driving, although I came close once during a blizzard when it took five hours to drive home from work due to idiots who didn't know how to handle the snow and kept causing road-blocking accidents. When I finally got off the highway I pulled into a station with the gauge on E. Then I had to zig-zag around stalled out cars going up a steep hill. This was in a rear wheel drive car with positraction, snow tires and extra weight in the trunk.

    Idiots exist and always will. Some drive conventional cars and some drive EVs but the choice of vehicle doesn't change the fact that they are idiots.

  6. #486
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    Default Good nesw for Tesla, bad news for EVs in general

    Other than in California EV sales are slumping nationwide as detailed in this LA times article.

    The only electric vehicles that have had success are Teslas - Los Angeles Times

    Tesla has an almost cult-like following* but it looks like EVs in general aren't very desirable to most people. As I said, I would be willing to someday buy a plug-in hybrid or an EV with a gasoline fueled Range Extender such as the optional one on the BMW i3 but unless something radically changes I would have no desire for a pure EV and most people I've talked to feel the same way.

    * "Tesla was expected to suffer as new EV competition came online, but that’s not been the case. Some analysts think buyers don’t necessarily want an electric car when they buy a Tesla — they primarily want a Tesla, which has replaced the latest iPhone as the coolest accoutrement in Silicon Valley and similar cultural enclaves around the world."

    From the LA Times article linked above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    I saw the Beatles play live.
    The Beatles and Alice on the same bill ... let's not, and say we did


    ^ Scott, the LA Times has gone to shit under its new owner. Previously they were kind of stuffy but the new guy is a wackadoodle promoting his own crap through propaganda. It is throughout the paper. The reporting is really bad, I wouldn't put three cents' worth of faith in them anymore.

    Electric has certainly taken off over here, the biggest automotive market in the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    That was due to poor planning, not some imagined inferiority of gasoline. In many other parts of the country during several major storms they DIDN'T run out of gasoline. What happened in Florida on that occasion was unexpected demand pre-storm as people topped up cars that normally would be half empty and also some bought reserves for generators, chain saws, etc.

    The extra demand should have been anticipated as that is typical human behavior and has been seen many times before.

    Your other links were ridiculous, pointing out a handful of instances of idiots running out of gas. I've never run out of gas in a road-going vehicle since I started driving, although I came close once during a blizzard when it took five hours to drive home from work due to idiots who didn't know how to handle the snow and kept causing road-blocking accidents. When I finally got off the highway I pulled into a station with the gauge on E. Then I had to zig-zag around stalled out cars going up a steep hill. This was in a rear wheel drive car with positraction, snow tires and extra weight in the trunk.

    Idiots exist and always will. Some drive conventional cars and some drive EVs but the choice of vehicle doesn't change the fact that they are idiots.
    "everything" you just stated goes for your supposed problems with EV's

    A handful of instances vs what?

    your imagination?

    do you even understand how ridiculous that sounds?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    "everything" you just stated goes for your supposed problems with EV's

    A handful of instances vs what?

    your imagination?

    do you even understand how ridiculous that sounds?
    So go buy an EV, drive it exclusively including commuting in winter storms, take it to the ski slopes in New Hampshire and Vermont, and report back in six months.

    See if you encounter any "instances".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    ...... I've never run out of gas in a road-going vehicle since I started driving,....
    You have never run out of gas in the wild and exploring, ......never, not even once? Or done the oh-shit can I find gasoline before this dies?
    Finding gas at 3 in the morning can be a problem.
    Do you carry extra fuel in a can in the trunk or strapped on for such?
    Interesting.....
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    You have never run out of gas in the wild and exploring, ......never, not even once? Or done the oh-shit can I find gasoline before this dies?
    Do you carry extra fuel in a can in the trunk or strapped on for such?
    Interesting.....
    Bob
    Yes, yes I doo...
    Along with a roll of TP in a sealed container....
    Mud boots, extra jacket, full set of wrenches, pliers & screwdrivers, quart of oil, gallon of water.
    and sometimes in the fall, a chainsaw....

    I thought everyone does ?

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    Chainsaw not on my list, maybe should be.
    EV off to the wild and maybe one of those tiny gas powered generators as a back up.
    Often I'll be out of any cell phone area so alone but there were not such when I was younger and I have run out of power a long ways from any help.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    You have never run out of gas in the wild and exploring, ......never, not even once? Or done the oh-shit can I find gasoline before this dies?
    Finding gas at 3 in the morning can be a problem.
    Do you carry extra fuel in a can in the trunk or strapped on for such?
    Interesting.....
    Bob
    Nope, not even off-road. The closest I came to "the oh-shit can I find gasoline before this dies?" was during that blizzard I mentioned earlier. After that I was more careful about keeping more gas in the tank.

    I've run out of gas plenty of times with a lawnmower or snow thrower. I just walk the short distance to where the can is stored and top up.

    I don't really understand people who run out of gas in a vehicle more than once in a lifetime. I knew a guy who did it in cars a few times and I was riding next to him on the highway once when his motorcycle started to cough and quit and he almost got rear ended by a pickup before he switched the tap to reserve and recovered. As I said, I don't understand why some never learn.

    When I used to ride dirt bikes we were in the habit of stopping occasionally to check the gas level. We kept spare gas in the truck and we carried baby bottles of 2-cycle oil so we could gas up at a station although that was risky because one time we barely made it back into the woods with a cruiser right behind us until he ran out of road. The bikes weren't road legal.

    I've known people who flew light planes and they were all scrupulous about monitoring gas vs distance. Same with people who fish offshore in smaller boats. You run out of gas in the air or well offshore and you are well and truly f****d! I knew a guy with a small boat who was a little casual about things like spare spark plugs and the like. I'd still ride on the river with him but I wouldn't go out on the ocean with him after the time he fouled a plug with no spares and we were lucky enough to get towed in by some fishermen. They were pretty open about expressing their disgust with his carelessness and I had a few similar words to say after we got back on shore.

    PS: I keep a hatchet, folding saw, and GI folding shovel in a tool bag in the trunk. All have come in handy at times. In winter I carry a jug of sand right behind the driver's seat and these days I also carry Yaktrax cleats since I don't bounce as well as I used to.

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    I used to carry my full maintenance tool kit,then went cold turkey,and now I have a small kit of maybe 5 tools.Reckon fuel economy improved 10% without the weight.......And I know plenty of drivers who wont fill the tank more than 1/4 full....and I suspect ,when they get an EV ,it will never be more than 1/4 charged,except the odd occasion when they forget to turn off the charger......same people will have the power cut off for chronic late payment of the bill.....then they will be stuffed....These are the ones who will be customers for share self drive services....Unfortunately ,when they are completely broke and out of credit,same result as an empty tank,but no car to tow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    ....
    PS: I keep a hatchet, folding saw, and GI folding shovel in a tool bag in the trunk. All have come in handy at times..
    So a little 25 pound generator in the back of your EV when going outside normal is not an option?
    Sure range and charging limited but there are options, backups and ways out.
    Just as there is in your plane, boat, bike or sled.
    You have never been there and stranded. That is an impressive record.
    Many of us have stories. For some those stories may be part of being alive. Others are the never failed, never risked and full on safety guy which I do admit to not understating.

    Get this in spades, I do not like electric cars but your arguments are faulty.
    Be aware that when pressed you did not need to carry two-stoke oil on the bike. Plain 10W30 works, it just does not burn so clean and smokes a lot.
    Bob

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    When EV prices come down to gas car equivalent,most wont care if its Tsla or Chin Chong,they will get one....me included.....Problem in the future,is not to be worried about. ,Until it happens ,then you whine online........Incidentally ,if you look up Bloombergs CV ,mandating EVs and solar is on his to do list....So maybe .come next year ,youll all be considering which EV to buy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    When EV prices come down to gas car equivalent,most wont care if its Tsla or Chin Chong,they will get one....me included......
    I think lots coming soon here. Big and small names.
    How the market will work is still up in the air.
    Here in the USA big and high priced gasoline powered trucks and SUVs still sell very well.
    The market and money is all about buyers, not sellers no matter how good or niffy the product.
    Ford and GM are going to chase this....... then we have the imports.
    A big blockage to the low cost small company import in the past has been emissions. That's no longer a wall to climb over for EV.
    There is still our auto safety requirements which will keep out some.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    So a little 25 pound generator in the back of your EV when going outside normal is not an option?
    Sure range and charging limited but there are options, backups and ways out.
    Just as there is in your plane, boat, bike or sled.
    You have never been there and stranded. That is an impressive record.
    Many of us have stories. For some those stories may be part of being alive. Others are the never failed, never risked and full on safety guy which I do admit to not understating.

    Get this in spades, I do not like electric cars but your arguments are faulty.
    Be aware that when pressed you did not need to carry two-stoke oil on the bike. Plain 10W30 works, it just does not burn so clean and smokes a lot.
    Bob
    Interestingly enough I don't actually dislike electric cars, I just have no desire for one and know many others who feel the same way. My objection is being tied to a charging cord with no other options. This doesn't rule out an Extended Range Electric Vehicle or EREV because the auxiliary on-board charging eliminates the problem.

    As I've said before, EVs are perfect for stop and go city driving, especially for things like postal and delivery vans. What I object to is the constant barrage from those touting them as somehow superior overall to an IC-engined vehicle. Both have their places although as I said before EREVs can exist in both worlds.

    There is definitely a lot of ideology behind the push for EVs and many of the arguments for them focus on things like cost to repair while ignoring overall utility. When was the last time any of you had to replace a transmission? Mine was a mid 80s vehicle that had one of those awful TH 200s behind a V8.

    In my neck of the woods there are a lot of hybrids, some of them very expensive SUV models so obviously complexity doesn't scare the buyers off. Like myself, they are interested in what a vehicle can do for them and at this point in time find these long range high MPG vehicles to be the best choice.

    Just on a side note if I were to pick one EV as something I would own as a vehicle to be driven part time I would pick the Tesla Roadster even though it has a reputation for technical problems. It would be a toy for fun same as a Corvette or other fast 2 seater.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Just on a side note if I were to pick one EV as something I would own as a vehicle to be driven part time I would pick the Tesla Roadster even though it has a reputation for technical problems. It would be a toy for fun same as a Corvette or other fast 2 seater.
    The old Tesla Roadster or the new Tesla Roadster?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    The old Tesla Roadster or the new Tesla Roadster?
    The old one. The new one is no doubt technically superior but the old one has a certain class. They are very popular with Tesla employees and there are usually several see charging at the headquarters.


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