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Fiat owns Chrysler

They're making Jeeps in China for the Chinese market. Fine with me. VW now makes most of its US line in Mexico.

I'm not familiar with the reasons for the sale. Sounds almost like UAW doesn't want to or couldn't pay the pensions of its workers and needed a way out.
 
The UAW never wanted to own Chrysler. What they wanted was to get the pension and medical fund contributions that Chrysler was supposed to pay, but instead went bankrupt.
The Union was tickled pink to get cash, and Fiat is currently making bank on US sales.
Long term, Fiat has kept tens of thousands of US manufacturing jobs that otherwise would have been lost.
Sure, it would have been better, if a US company had bought Chrysler instead, assuming there was a US company willing to take the risk, and that actually knew something about making cars.
But, unfortunately, Studebaker was no longer available.

The end result is that we still make some cars in the US, as well as in Mexico and Canada, that we otherwise would not, because Fiat put their money where their mouth is.
I am sure there could have been better solutions, but it would have required Wall Street to actually invest in America, rather than play 3 card monte with all our 401k savings.

As for China- General Motors already makes 1 million cars a year in China- its a bigger market for Buick and, I think, Cadillac, than the USA is. Chrysler is only trying to catch up.
 
Kapps is right - my 09 Jetta says made in Mexico on the body panels. Lots of Audi parts in the engine though. Makes me think the motor might still be German? Anyway- putting your money in Mexico is a hell of a lot better than China in my opinion, considering how that just deepens our debt to them (China). And you might actually get something usable, of decent quality from Mexico rather than the straight shit that comes out of China
 
Kapps is right - my 09 Jetta says made in Mexico on the body panels. Lots of Audi parts in the engine though. Makes me think the motor might still be German? Anyway- putting your money in Mexico is a hell of a lot better than China in my opinion, considering how that just deepens our debt to them (China). And you might actually get something usable, of decent quality from Mexico rather than the straight shit that comes out of China

While I am no fan of Chinese manufacturing you can't honestly think the big names producing stuff in CHINA is crap? Nothing of quality can be manufactured in the whole country? Give me a break....oh and while you are at it please change the channel on your bunny eared TV.
 
Not quite on track with the OP but maybe, just maybe, food for thought.

Gas in the USA costs about half of what it does in most European countries (population 700 million +) and it (gas) costs about the same as in the poorer countries around the world where a car is a luxury.

Maybe the downward spiral started when the USA kept on producing large and fuel inefficient cars based on what they thought the US market wanted and forgot export? It certainly wasn't what the rest of the world wanted. All large companies eventually go "international" and that works both ways.

There's also the fact that cars produced in the UK became infamous for lousy quality while there was also a long stretch of time where the same reputation stuck to US cars. Japanese and German cars set new standards and not all could follow.

Just think of the potential for the USA if they could produce what the Asian countries needed, wanted and could afford for transport.

China and Transportation: What We Can Learn In The United States - YouTube

Indian Road Transport - YouTube

Transport in Vietnam-2010-SHORT - YouTube

Transport in Japan - YouTube
 
While agreeing with most of what Ries says, I'm not especially optimistic about the future of Chrysler under Fiat. One of my clients (large ag & construction machinery maker) was acquired by Fiat. Far as I could tell, Fiat was more interested in using Formula 1 racing for promotion(which doesn't much work for farmers and construction workers here) and trimming costs through consolidation than investing in superior product development. Back then Fiat seemed financially driven, with a bit of ego on the side. Things may have changed, it's been quite a while.

Chrysler still seems to have kept its flair for style, but I'd guess that companies like Toyota, Honda, Nissan, VW, currently Ford, and even Hyundai will be more likely to make the kinds of product and production investments needed for the long haul. In any case, the company is currently in far better shape today than it was in 2008. We'll have to see how it looks by 2020 or so.
 
"Sure, it would have been better, if a US company had bought Chrysler instead, assuming there was a US company willing to take the risk, and that actually knew something about making cars. "

A US company, unfortunately a hedge fund, DID buy it from near bankruptcy. Fiat buying what they did not own probably did make them a lot of profit. Billions!

That the UAW finally gets the money they are owed by the Corps is good. It IS their money. Employees have had all that docked from their pay. Part of their negotiated pay package, STEALING from them, as so many corps have already done. Corp funds, declare bankruptcy, split the funds among the top management, let the PBGC, if that is the acronym, pay a 30 year retiree half what he was contractually obligated to get.

Company controlled Pension and Benefit fund is not at all good. Most UAW funds were company controlled. THEY decided, with high interest and stock returns, that they could spend the contributions from employees, because the "FUND" was fully funded. Market takes a 10% down turn, they were billions short.

As to Putz, we don't really owe anything to China, no more than we do to Fidelity, or other investment firms who also buy US Treasuries. They BUY Treasury Notes. They give us a billion of money they need to invest, we give them a note saying they can get it back when it matures. Should rates go up or down, if they redeem early, sell, actually, they can make money, Vice-versa, rates go down, that note is worth less, unless held to maturity. When they buy US Treasuries, they are betting that they will at least keep up with inflation, and that they are guaranteed repayment at maturity.

China does not own US, they have about 1 trillion of 16 trillion of US debt. Hardly our masters. And, then, if we have to repay, we give them 1 billion, we wipe out 1 billion OF our debt. A wash.

Why can not any of you understand this? Everybody says we owe China TRILLIONS. We do NOT! There is only about 6 trillion owed to England, Germany, China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, and our own Mutual Funds, and rich people who hold the majority of Federal Debt.

ETC., ETC., ETC, You never learn. Your priests preach that to you. The Heathens own us, and the entire South is in that school. Few sane people on this Board. All bigots, but bigoted against other thing than another sect is. Weird fucking people down there in the South, and them holy rollers up in the North don't have too many more functioning brain cells, either.

George

Gordon'

"Gas in the USA costs about half of what it does in most European countries (population 700 million) and it costs about the same as in the poorer countries where a car is a luxury."

Gas in the US is taxed for road maintenance, and a few other things, like lucrative salaries for those who rule the road. In Europe, I do believe, it is taxed, in part, to pay for NHS. Am I correct? If you do not drive and buy gas, you are still covered?

Here, you pay, period. We very rarely allocate taxes to what they were designed to alleviate. We put a rise in the Turnpike fees, but part of that has to go to mass transit, which I don't use, buses not trains.. First, they are for profits. Mass transit is for sustainability. Try to pay your own way, but if you increase the fare too much, people stay away in droves.4

Almost all the European countries are small. 300 miles about the largest? Curious that the steam train developed in a country that no point was over 100 miles to the border, yet so it did.

US is 3,000 miles wide, vast areas that would provide no revenue to passenger trains. It is not an expensive way o travel. I brought my GD from one place in VA to home for 61 bucks, back to school for 51 bucks. Dime a mile, more or less, and sit on your butt and read or whatever. Pertneer cost you that to drive.
 
PeteM,

"Chrysler still seems to have kept its flair for style, "

I think they are the ugliest cars on the market. Stylists, they do not have. I think they all flunked design school.

George

Then, again, I think that all cars are ugly, today. I do still like Audis, though, looking to replace my 97.
 
PeteM,

"Chrysler still seems to have kept its flair for style, "

I think they are the ugliest cars on the market. Stylists, they do not have. I think they all flunked design school.

George

Then, again, I think that all cars are ugly, today. I do still like Audis, though, looking to replace my 97.


They have me converted as Dodge products were my last choice in cars.

My last cars

99 Ram
06 Charger R/t
08 Jeep SRT

Currently

11 Ram
11 Charger SRT

I bought the 11 Ram because the F 150 was $10,000 more
The 11 Charger SRT. I like rear drive and no body else has a family car with 475hp ;)
 
Gas in the US is taxed for road maintenance, and a few other things, like lucrative salaries for those who rule the road. In Europe, I do believe, it is taxed, in part, to pay for NHS. Am I correct? If you do not drive and buy gas, you are still covered?

NHS is a UK organization, not European. Some of the UK fuel tax may go to NHS funds, but it is not directly earmarked as such. Everyone is able to use NHS services, regardless of whether they drive.

Gas in the UK and Europe are taxed for road maintenance, but also for the development of public transit and alternatives to driving. Additionally, tough environmental controls create a greater 'tax' at the level of refining and transport. Here that would get a lot of resistance from what remains of the auto industry, but there, there is less problem with raising the costs of driving to encourage other transit. Fuel is not the only tax: various UK and European governments impose large fees on things like parking spaces, road tolls, and emissions. Many still commute by car, but there is great pressure to do day-to-day transport on public transit, and have the personal vehicle be a tool for occasional use.
 
cesium,

I would prefer that that come from either a European or a Brit. It is all well and good that a Coloradan will try to correct me. Regardless, they Do collect taxes TO pay for a "NHS", regardless what you call it, country to country. They have it, we don't, and they seem to be mostly happy with what they have. We are not.

Do they pay more in tax? Not according to some of you. You insist that 40 thou GROSS is going to cost you 39%, and in fact over 50% of your income goes to the Feds, and more to State and Local Govs.

jb,

I can't help with your taste in cars. Jeep is not an actual Chrysler product, although Chrysler designers probably had some say into turning the Brand into a piss poor looking travesty of the old Jeep. Prettify it. Piss poor stuff under the body, but make it look good.

George
 
While agreeing with most of what Ries says, I'm not especially optimistic about the future of Chrysler under Fiat. ....

At first I thought, OK this is the end.
But now I'm very optimistic and very impressed with what they have done with the takeover.
Much better than the German owners who you would have thought would be good at building and marketing cars.
This has been a very pleasant surprise.
Bob
 
NHS is a UK organization, not European. Some of the UK fuel tax may go to NHS funds, but it is not directly earmarked as such. Everyone is able to use NHS services, regardless of whether they drive.

Gas in the UK and Europe are taxed for road maintenance, but also for the development of public transit and alternatives to driving. Additionally, tough environmental controls create a greater 'tax' at the level of refining and transport. Here that would get a lot of resistance from what remains of the auto industry, but there, there is less problem with raising the costs of driving to encourage other transit. Fuel is not the only tax: various UK and European governments impose large fees on things like parking spaces, road tolls, and emissions. Many still commute by car, but there is great pressure to do day-to-day transport on public transit, and have the personal vehicle be a tool for occasional use.

One of those posts that just can't go by without a comment as it is both partly right and partly wrong :)

"The NHS" is British but NHS is used as an abbreviation when health care is funded by taxes which is what most countries do.

I'm pretty sure that in Europe (and the UK is in Europe) gas taxes were originaly introduced to pay for road maintenance etc. but those days are long gone and in all European countries I know of gas tax funds many things totally unrelated to trafic.

Toll roads are fairly common in some of the Southern European countries but as good as non existant in the Northern European countries.

Public transport is certainly more popular in as good as all of Europe than in the USA but those living outside the cities need a car much more than those living in cities. Parking in a city is a nightmare no matter which country it is :eek:

Parking Problems (NEW AND IMPROVED) - YouTube
 
Being mostly a Detroit boy,and paying mostly close attention,
I don't think Fiat will be the last owners,Chrysler has had a few so far,no?
Gw
 
FWIW,
The "new" LANCIA (fka Chrysler 300) seems even to be a decent ride after FIAT have completely rebuilt and adjusted the suspension and the rest of the car. Especially when powered by the big(VM) DIESEL...(it's highly "tuneable" as well)
Regards,
Max
 
What is this VM diesel you speak of?
Its not available in the states,
What does NL stand for?
I drive 2 jetta diesels here(wife and I)
Had a Izuzu Diesel as well as Mitsubishi at one time as well.
Thanks
Gw
 
What is this VM diesel you speak of?
Its not available in the states,
What does NL stand for?
I drive 2 jetta diesels here(wife and I)
Had a Izuzu Diesel as well as Mitsubishi at one time as well.
Thanks
Gw

That close to Detroit and all that foreign stuff? Please tell us there's some American iron out in the north forty.
What would the union folks say?
 








 
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