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  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post

    Back on topic - I got High Pfized today, first one. Had to travel to Boston for it (worth it), but I hope to schedule the second shot up here. Great people working the site, but a lack of signage and the traffic in/out of the parking facility make that aspect much more stressful than the shot itself.
    I get my second Pfizer this coming Tuesday. Note to all the conspiracy theorist out there. I did not see the chip go in, but I do hear an operating system opening music and I go all around the house opening and closing windows. Just a coincidence I suppose.

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    About 50 hours after second Moderna shot, I think I am still a little fatigued, it seems to come and go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    About 50 hours after second Moderna shot, I think I am still a little fatigued, it seems to come and go.
    Are you able to get a normal night's sleep, or is that problematic too?

    I only got about 3hrs before I left for MA, so I expect fatigue later today regardless of the shot. But it's the second dose I'm really curious about - my understanding is more people feel effects with that one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    I only got about 3hrs before I left for MA, so I expect fatigue later today regardless of the shot. But it's the second dose I'm really curious about - my understanding is more people feel effects with that one.
    II will let you know how I feel on Wednesday or Thursday, hopefully no worse then the first one. A little uncomfortableness in my shoulder for about a day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazygoat View Post
    II will let you know how I feel on Wednesday or Thursday, hopefully no worse then the first one. A little uncomfortableness in my shoulder for about a day.
    It seems to be with everyone the second shot is worse, I haven't heard anyone say it is better. Good luck!

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    Concerning taking TWO vaccines for COVID-19, I would point out that there is no valid reason to be doing that. Of course, I guess if somebody is taking a "vaccine" for an imaginary disease, no reason not to do other crazy things, like take it 10 times. Why not? Heck, respiratory viruses are not affected by the adaptive immune system, but I guess that doesn't matter either, does it? Why not start making "vaccines" for arthritis and lumbago while we're at it? Here's some data for you: real vaccines don't need to be taken twice.

    The rationale, if you want to call it that, for taking two vaccines is the following efficacy study: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577. In this study, the researchers deliberately gave all the trial participants two doses and did not even test the "efficacy" of using one dose. If you read the study, you will see that it says right in the text the following: "The study was not designed to assess the efficacy of a single-dose regimen." So, in other words doctors are recommending taking two doses of the vaccine for no other reason than that was the condition the vaccine was tested under. I guess we should be thankful they didn't decide to test a 5-dose regimen instead of a 2-dose regimen.

  8. #507
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    I do not like needles.
    Just about passed out when then the dog blood sample taken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Just about passed out when then the dog blood sample taken.
    You're running on dog blood now, Bob ? Good idea, should be cheaper and maybe help you smell better. Any particular breed ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jscpm View Post
    A few people on an "airplane" cannot infect millions in 3 weeks ...
    Oh boy. If you got anything more wrong, you'd go negative and slip into a wrinkle in the time-space vortex. Every single thing you've said here is demonstrably false.

    Respiratory viruses have 5-6 day infection cycles and each person can only infect a small number of other people.
    This is not a respiratory virus and people can be infectious for many days before they show symptoms and incubation period has been documented up to two weeks and the idea that a few people cannot infect many is ludicrous. Every one of your statements is wrong.

    The communication between Wuhan and Italy is almost negligible.
    And you know this how ? Pulled it out of your imagination ? Italy, Germany, and France have major investments all over China. Wuhan is a modern city of eleven million people. It makes New York look like a sleepy backwoods dump. Before the virus there were dozens of flights from Wuhan all over the world, Italy included. Lots of small and large Italian companies doing business in China.

    Why they would do this I have no idea, because Wuhan is one of the Four Ovens and in August, it's hot and sticky enough at eleven o'clock at night to boil the sweat off your balls, talk about miserable, but oh well. Foreigners are often not rational.

    Chinese citizens require exit visas (permission) to visit foreign countries and must obtain a "return visa" as well before leaving.
    You really are a stupid fuck. This is a total lie. Chinese people need a passport and for some countries, a visa. Period. We've brought literally dozens of Chinese people to the US and England. There is no such thing as an "exit visa" and no "return visa" either. You're full of shit.

    Travel for even wealthy people in China is a complex and time consuming process ...
    Right. You have to call C-Trip and tell them where you want to go and when, and give them your name and passport number. Real difficult. Almost impossible, if you want to know the truth. That's why the Assistant's mom and her group of retired old grandma friends have been to the US, to Russia, Japan, England, and Egypt, along with the common Thailand and Sanya and Indonesia and so on. She retired as an accountant and her friends are mostly schoolteachers and the like, no wealth involved.

    for lower class industrial workers like most of the people in Wuhan it is extremely rare for them to travel to Europe or anywhere else outside China.
    "most of the people of Wuhan" .... you dumb fuck. What you don't know would fill a giant negative encyclopedia, a big empty space on the shelf where any fact that got close enough would be gobbled into another dimension. Here, dipshit, let me save you an hour of difficult reading

    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia
    As of 2016, Wuhan has attracted foreign investment from over 80 countries, with 5,973 foreign-invested enterprises established in the city with a total capital investment of $22.45 billion USD. Among these, about 50 French companies including Renault and PSA Group have operations in the city, representing over one third of French investment in China, and the highest level of French investment in any Chinese city.
    I don't know where Brembo, Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa, and Gucci, Balenciaga, Salvatore Whatervamagni, Ernesto Smegmageldi, and the 500 coffee-machine companies are headquartered but for sure they have operations in Wuhan. And most of the wops fly home for Spring Festival because they don't have a grandma back in the village to kowtow to.

    Most of the Chinese you see in tourist locations are wealthy, upper class Chinese from Beijing, Shanghai or Hong Kong.
    Nope. Most are retired old biddies, off to see the world with their high school classmates. They drag their husbands along to carry the suitcases and rub their feet at night.

    The idea that a virus could essentially teleport from Wuhan to infecting large numbers of people in Italy in the space of 3 weeks is a mathematical impossibility.
    And bumblebees can't fly. Neither can airplanes, and the earth is flat ... and most curious of all, how thick is your skull, to withstand the incredible vacuum contained therein ?

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    Firstly, I take exception to the insulting and abusive language directed at me by Goldstein. I notice it is often the practice of people who have poor arguments or are operating from a position of weakness that they resort to insulting and bullying language.

    I will not answer all of the various points Goldstein makes, mainly because few of them have any logical substance to them. However, I will address the Chinese visa issue. Goldstein takes the position in his post that China has no exit visa requirements and Chinese citizens can leave China freely with no restrictions or checks. This is not true either for Chinese citizens or foreigners. Both Chinese citizens and foreigners, including Americans, must have both entry and exit permission. This is codified by Articles 9, 11 and 12(1) of the 2012 Exit and Entry Administration Law of the People's Republic of China which I quote in part below:

    "Article 9 Chinese citizens who exit or enter China shall, in accordance with the law, apply for passports or other travel documents."

    "Article 11 Chinese citizens who exit or enter China shall submit their exit/entry documents such as passports or other travel documents to the exit/entry border inspection authorities for examination, go through the prescribed formalities, and may exit or enter upon examination and approval."

    "Article 12 Under any of the following circumstances, Chinese citizens are not allowed to exit China:...[there follows a long list of conditions that are checked before the citizen is allowed to exit the country]".

    Before anyone is allowed to leave China, their documents are carefully checked and they must apply to leave the country. That includes foreigners. Chinese citizens must also state the country or countries to which they intend to travel and must have visas for those countries, if a visa is required. Before the person is allowed to leave, the authorities check to make sure that the person is not banned from travel, which can happen for many reasons. For example, most Tibetans are banned from leaving the country, just for starters. People with bad "social credit" scores are also prevented from leaving. Etc.

    Furthermore, I would point out that Chinese citizens not only require permission to enter or leave the country, but they also are restricted from moving freely within China itself. China is divided into many different administrative zones and citizens are not allowed to travel between those zones without permission. This is enforced by a special kind of passport called a "household register" or "hukou". Depending on what kind of hukou a Chinese has and the authorizations in their hukou they may or may not be able to move into different zones within China.

    So, with regards to the picture Goldstein paints of China as having an American-like system where a person can leave anytime they want without scrutiny, this is far from the case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jscpm View Post
    Firstly, I take exception to the insulting and abusive language directed at me by Goldstein. I notice it is often the practice of people who have poor arguments or are operating from a position of weakness that they resort to insulting and bullying language.
    I'm insulted that you're not casting aspersions at me too.

    Because you're at fucking Flat-Earth levels of unmitigated stupidity with every post of yours about viruses. You have a special aggressive ignorance on the subject, made far worse by your cut-and-paste bloviating on the subject.

    I'm fine with you constantly shitting into your plate and wolfing it down, at least there's plenty of fiber there.

    But you are literally harmful to others when it comes to your disinformation campaign regarding viruses as a whole, and by spreading your bullshit you potentially sway other ignorant people into acting against their own (and others!) self interest.

    It's not that I dislike you personally, it's just that everything you say is stupid, counterproductive, and harmful. Aside from that, I'm sure you have your good side too.

    Or not...

    [Edit: Just got off the phone with my sister, who's a much nicer person than I am. She told me that being a jerk to people who say stupid things on the Internet is counterproductive, as we should allow Darwin to do his thing with those unable to process facts and reality.

    So please, if you're of a mindset to listen to people who tell you not to get the vaccine, to not believe that the Covid pandemic is real, etc. - carry on. Thoughts and Prayers, y'all]

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    Quote Originally Posted by jscpm View Post
    Firstly, I take exception to the insulting and abusive language directed at me ...
    Ooooh. Could *somebody* please pull the fainting couch over here, and bring the smelling salts? Poor person is upset that his fixed delusions are being challenged.

    1) you are not a special snowflake.

    2) your opinions are counterfactual and deserve ridicule.

    3) you came to the right place to get this.

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    Well, I see a lot of ridicule, but not very much thinking, which is a little surprising because machinists are supposed to be thinkers. Instead what I read is a lot of blind belief in news reports, or maybe that is just a vocal few?

    Perhaps, I should repeat what I mentioned in a previous post concerning my sister. My sister is an administrator in a 125-bed hospital in Long Island. She told me that among the hospital staff the supposed COVID-19 vaccine is not given any credence and the reason for this is that the staff is constantly tested for COVID-19 and many employees who have received the alleged "vaccine" have subsequently tested positive for COVID-19. So, because of that, the staff has no confidence in the vaccine and avoid it, if they have a choice.

    So, apart from any other issues, we can clearly see a divergence between what my sister considers "factual" and what some of the other people on this forum consider "factual".

  16. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by jscpm View Post
    Well, I see a lot of ridicule, but not very much thinking, which is a little surprising because machinists are supposed to be thinkers. Instead what I read is a lot of blind belief in news reports, or maybe that is just a vocal few?
    You are mad as a hatter. Madder, perhaps. Your hearsay "data" is so vapid that I'm forced to concede. You're unreachable, and the only response remaining to any rational person is shunning.

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    The various vaccines are claimed to reduce the severity of the virus by several orders of magnitude once the vaccinated person develops full immunity following the second dose.........vaccines are never claimed to prevent infection from occurring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jscpm View Post
    Goldstein takes the position in his post that China has no exit visa requirements and Chinese citizens can leave China freely with no restrictions or checks.
    Yes, because I have done it literally hundreds of times. This is what you get when you read some John Birch propaganda and don't understand.

    When you leave or enter China there is a departure card and an entry card. In fact, they are on the same piece of paper with a yellow stripe across the top. You used to get these coming into the US, too, but now it's computerized. On it goes your name and passport number and the name of the ship or plane you came on /left on. China will perhaps drop the entry-exit cards one day also due to more stuff going on the computers, but there's probably some printing company somewhere that makes a pretty penny for someone's son-in-law, so maybe not. They have computerized the process quite a bit, and omigod now you have a fingerprint scan and a photo taken at entry. Same in the US.

    This is not a restriction on travel. I suppose if you are a fugitive, then they will catch you this way. But that's the same for every country on the planet.

    Both Chinese citizens and foreigners, including Americans, must have both entry and exit permission. This is codified by Articles 9, 11 and 12(1) of the 2012 Exit and Entry Administration Law of the People's Republic of China which I quote in part below:
    Which you don't understand at all ....

    "Article 9 Chinese citizens who exit or enter China shall, in accordance with the law, apply for passports or other travel documents."
    No country on the planet (that I am aware of) does not require a passport to go through immigration. None.

    The "other travel documents" can be the passes that Hong Kong and Macao people use to enter and exit Hong Kong and Macao, they don't have to stand in line like us peasants, I don't know much about that one -- but Chinese people do not need anything other than a passport and a ticket to leave or enter the country.

    "Article 11 Chinese citizens who exit or enter China shall submit their exit/entry documents such as passports or other travel documents to the exit/entry border inspection authorities for examination, go through the prescribed formalities, and may exit or enter upon examination and approval."
    Like every country on the fucking planet. This is not "special permission to leave".

    "Article 12 Under any of the following circumstances, Chinese citizens are not allowed to exit China:...[there follows a long list of conditions that are checked before the citizen is allowed to exit the country]".
    Right. You're wanted for a crime. Have you heard of no-fly lists ? Are you aware that fugitives from justice are routinely stopped at the borders ? Just about every thriller movie there is has the hero getting phony papers to escape the country. Everybody checks passports for criminals. This is not the same as "requiring special permission to leave the country" which is what you claimmed.

    Before anyone is allowed to leave China, their documents are carefully checked and they must apply to leave the country. That includes foreigners.
    Bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit. I am sure at least a couple other people here have been to China and will recognize this as pure crap. The "careful checking" consists of standing at the counter while the guy makes sure the photo matches your face.

    Now, leaving, for foreigners they do check for overstaying your visa, which is a 500 rmb/day fine. If it's long enough of an overstay, might be worse and they will blackflag your passport and you can't come back. But that's not Chinese people.

    Chinese citizens must also state the country or countries to which they intend to travel and must have visas for those countries, if a visa is required.
    If you don't have a visa for where you are going, they wn't let you on the airplane, they won't give you a boarding pass. And currently you have to have a current (24 hrs) negative covid test. You can't even get in to security without the boarding pass and ticket stub. Have you ever flown anywhere ?

    Before the person is allowed to leave, the authorities check to make sure that the person is not banned from travel, which can happen for many reasons.
    No-fly lists, yes. Everyone has them. And fugitives from justice also, every country has that too. I ask again, have you ever gone anywhere ?

    People with bad "social credit" scores are also prevented from leaving. Etc.
    Horse crap and imagination. 90% of people don't even have "social credit". That's a stupid product of nitwit foreigners' imagination, such as yourself.

    Furthermore, I would point out that Chinese citizens not only require permission to enter or leave the country
    Garbage. No more than people of any country, if you are a criminal escaping with the proceeds of a bank robbery, look out. Otherwise, you stand in line, get to the counter, the guy looks at your passport, runs it through the reader, you stick your fingers on the fingerprint reader and look at the camera then "Next !" and move on past. If the girl is hot I usually press the smiley-face button on the "how did I behave ?" panel. Sometimes a guy is pleasant or funny, especially in Hong Kong, I'll hit the green face for them, too.

    Just for contrast, the Assistant has been sidetracked into the "secondary questioning" area twice now entering the US, where they terrorize people and try to make them wet their pants or something. It's fucking stupid and counterproductive. The fucking blowhards did not catch the twenty arabs that blew up the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, but they can scare a 100 lb Chinese girl who just wants to go to the Premium Outlets. Big brave men with guns ! wow ! they're so bad ! ... stupid worthless assholes, actually. The TSA sucks balls (except in Newark, New Jersey, where they were mostly black, very friendly, helpful, and decent people. What a shock.

    but they also are restricted from moving freely within China itself. China is divided into many different administrative zones and citizens are not allowed to travel between those zones without permission.
    Surprise surprise, you don't understand the hukou either. You can move wherever you want. What the hukou does is delineate your access to services. Your hospital plan and social insurance plans depend on the hukou, which is from your birth city. More upscale cities have better benefits, which is why everyone wants a Shanghai hukou. Of course Shanghai doesn't want to give everybody their hukou because it costs money. So it's not easy to change. It can be done but takes a lot of effort. But this does not restrict where you live or work in any way. It decides how much you pay at the hospital or how much you get in retirement or whether you can buy a local license plate for your car or have to get one from your birth city. This is not 1962.

    In fact it never restricted where you could live, just where you could get a job and government-supplied housing. Before, let's say, 1980 ? jobs and housing were supplied by the government. Except in rare cases, cities didn't employ the citizens of another city. The intent was not to restrict movement but to make the cities responsible for employment and housing. The hukou had other effects but those weren't the purpose.

    Anyway, that's all been history since the late eighties / early nineties when they un-micromanaged their communism. Downside is, now you have to find your own house and job. Upside is, if you can get one you like, you're better off.

    Maybe. The older people I know were not unhappy with their lives, and it was a more stable environment. Win some, lose some.

    In fact, many of them are content with the fact that they bought their current house for cheap in the early nineties, when employer-supplied housing was abandoned, and pretty soon they will get a nice payout when these old buildings are knocked down for new housing. It's kinda like what smart small shops do - the business buys the building, then when you get too old to work you close the shop and sell the building for your retirement money.

    Of course there's always one holdout, you'll see three blocks of old houses knocked down with one remnant sticking up, and that guy is insisting on another 1000 元, I don't know if he gets it or not but usually he'll get a story in the New York Times about the tyrannical commies tearing down this poor old guy's house. If I raised seagulls the Times would be good for collecting their shit, otherwise Javier Hernandez needs his brains knocked out with a baseball bat. Assuming he has any.

    So, with regards to the picture Goldstein paints of China as having an American-like system where a person can leave anytime they want without scrutiny, this is far from the case.
    But the US does not have a system where a person can leave anytime they want without scrutiny. Not in the least. You still need a passport, you still need a visa for many places, you still need to not be on the no-fly list, you still need to not have tax liens or child-support judgements against you : a US citizen is subject to just as many restrictions as a Chinese person. Possibly more.

    In fact, one of the players on alt.machines.cnc cannot leave the US now for one of those reasons. So as far as realworld knowledge of people whose rights are being trampled by their tyrannnical government, I know two US citizens and zero Chinese.

    You're full of shit, poopsie. Maybe drop it in the grunter next time instead of exposing yourself to ridicule by typing it out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    ....
    You seem to have an emotional and personal vested interest in defending China and the CCP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gewehr 98 View Post
    You seem to have an emotional and personal vested interest in defending China and the CCP.
    I seem to have an emotional interest in the truth, you ignorant asshole. Go jump on a brick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    I seem to have an emotional interest in the truth, you ignorant asshole. Go jump on a brick.
    Typical response. Your truth comes from the CCP.

    Now go have another bat meat bao bun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gewehr 98 View Post
    Typical response. Your truth comes from the CCP.
    No, your truth comes from Colin Powell lying to the entire world. Weapons of Mass Destruction, right ? They bought aluminum tubing, they're making bombs ! Whoopee, let's go invade another country !

    You suck dick. What I wrote about entry-exit has nothing to do with your bogeyman, it's the facts of life about going through immigration to enter or exit China. It's fact instead of bullshit which anyone who has actually done it will confirm.

    But you can't recognize that since your head is so far up your ass all you can see is fantasies. Enemies ! Enemies ! We need enemies !

    Go check under the bed, maybe there's a commie there. Stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    No, your truth comes from Colin Powell lying to the entire world. Weapons of Mass Destruction, right ? They bought aluminum tubing, they're making bombs ! Whoopee, let's go invade another country !
    Colin Powell was himself lied to, and used by those that had an interest in the potential of an invasion, including opponents of Saddam.

    Colin Powell Still Wants Answers - The New York Times

    There's blood on his hands, but not as much as Cheney's...

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