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  1. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Colin Powell was himself lied to, and used by those that had an interest in the potential of an invasion, including opponents of Saddam.
    But he swallowed it hook, line, and sinker, just like Mr Gewehr here. If you don't listen when someone says, "no, that's not how it really is" then you are nothing but a liar yourself.

    I do have more sympathy for Mr Powell than, say, the Shrub and his evil cohorts. But still, as the top guy, it was his job to ascertain truth before he went on stage and lectured the world. If he were Japanese he'd commit seppuku.

    At least he had the ethics to be upset by that, again as opposed to our neighborhood fool Gewehr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Yes, because I have done it literally hundreds of times. This is what you get when you read some John Birch propaganda and don't understand.

    When you leave or enter China there is a departure card and an entry card. In fact, they are on the same piece of paper with a yellow stripe across the top. You used to get these coming into the US, too, but now it's computerized. On it goes your name and passport number and the name of the ship or plane you came on /left on. China will perhaps drop the entry-exit cards one day also due to more stuff going on the computers, but there's probably some printing company somewhere that makes a pretty penny for someone's son-in-law, so maybe not. They have computerized the process quite a bit, and omigod now you have a fingerprint scan and a photo taken at entry. Same in the US.

    This is not a restriction on travel. I suppose if you are a fugitive, then they will catch you this way. But that's the same for every country on the planet.


    Which you don't understand at all ....


    No country on the planet (that I am aware of) does not require a passport to go through immigration. None.

    The "other travel documents" can be the passes that Hong Kong and Macao people use to enter and exit Hong Kong and Macao, they don't have to stand in line like us peasants, I don't know much about that one -- but Chinese people do not need anything other than a passport and a ticket to leave or enter the country.


    Like every country on the fucking planet. This is not "special permission to leave".


    Right. You're wanted for a crime. Have you heard of no-fly lists ? Are you aware that fugitives from justice are routinely stopped at the borders ? Just about every thriller movie there is has the hero getting phony papers to escape the country. Everybody checks passports for criminals. This is not the same as "requiring special permission to leave the country" which is what you claimmed.


    Bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit. I am sure at least a couple other people here have been to China and will recognize this as pure crap. The "careful checking" consists of standing at the counter while the guy makes sure the photo matches your face.

    Now, leaving, for foreigners they do check for overstaying your visa, which is a 500 rmb/day fine. If it's long enough of an overstay, might be worse and they will blackflag your passport and you can't come back. But that's not Chinese people.


    If you don't have a visa for where you are going, they wn't let you on the airplane, they won't give you a boarding pass. And currently you have to have a current (24 hrs) negative covid test. You can't even get in to security without the boarding pass and ticket stub. Have you ever flown anywhere ?


    No-fly lists, yes. Everyone has them. And fugitives from justice also, every country has that too. I ask again, have you ever gone anywhere ?


    Horse crap and imagination. 90% of people don't even have "social credit". That's a stupid product of nitwit foreigners' imagination, such as yourself.


    Garbage. No more than people of any country, if you are a criminal escaping with the proceeds of a bank robbery, look out. Otherwise, you stand in line, get to the counter, the guy looks at your passport, runs it through the reader, you stick your fingers on the fingerprint reader and look at the camera then "Next !" and move on past. If the girl is hot I usually press the smiley-face button on the "how did I behave ?" panel. Sometimes a guy is pleasant or funny, especially in Hong Kong, I'll hit the green face for them, too.

    Just for contrast, the Assistant has been sidetracked into the "secondary questioning" area twice now entering the US, where they terrorize people and try to make them wet their pants or something. It's fucking stupid and counterproductive. The fucking blowhards did not catch the twenty arabs that blew up the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, but they can scare a 100 lb Chinese girl who just wants to go to the Premium Outlets. Big brave men with guns ! wow ! they're so bad ! ... stupid worthless assholes, actually. The TSA sucks balls (except in Newark, New Jersey, where they were mostly black, very friendly, helpful, and decent people. What a shock.


    Surprise surprise, you don't understand the hukou either. You can move wherever you want. What the hukou does is delineate your access to services. Your hospital plan and social insurance plans depend on the hukou, which is from your birth city. More upscale cities have better benefits, which is why everyone wants a Shanghai hukou. Of course Shanghai doesn't want to give everybody their hukou because it costs money. So it's not easy to change. It can be done but takes a lot of effort. But this does not restrict where you live or work in any way. It decides how much you pay at the hospital or how much you get in retirement or whether you can buy a local license plate for your car or have to get one from your birth city. This is not 1962.

    In fact it never restricted where you could live, just where you could get a job and government-supplied housing. Before, let's say, 1980 ? jobs and housing were supplied by the government. Except in rare cases, cities didn't employ the citizens of another city. The intent was not to restrict movement but to make the cities responsible for employment and housing. The hukou had other effects but those weren't the purpose.

    Anyway, that's all been history since the late eighties / early nineties when they un-micromanaged their communism. Downside is, now you have to find your own house and job. Upside is, if you can get one you like, you're better off.

    Maybe. The older people I know were not unhappy with their lives, and it was a more stable environment. Win some, lose some.

    In fact, many of them are content with the fact that they bought their current house for cheap in the early nineties, when employer-supplied housing was abandoned, and pretty soon they will get a nice payout when these old buildings are knocked down for new housing. It's kinda like what smart small shops do - the business buys the building, then when you get too old to work you close the shop and sell the building for your retirement money.

    Of course there's always one holdout, you'll see three blocks of old houses knocked down with one remnant sticking up, and that guy is insisting on another 1000 元, I don't know if he gets it or not but usually he'll get a story in the New York Times about the tyrannical commies tearing down this poor old guy's house. If I raised seagulls the Times would be good for collecting their shit, otherwise Javier Hernandez needs his brains knocked out with a baseball bat. Assuming he has any.


    But the US does not have a system where a person can leave anytime they want without scrutiny. Not in the least. You still need a passport, you still need a visa for many places, you still need to not be on the no-fly list, you still need to not have tax liens or child-support judgements against you : a US citizen is subject to just as many restrictions as a Chinese person. Possibly more.

    In fact, one of the players on alt.machines.cnc cannot leave the US now for one of those reasons. So as far as realworld knowledge of people whose rights are being trampled by their tyrannnical government, I know two US citizens and zero Chinese.

    You're full of shit, poopsie. Maybe drop it in the grunter next time instead of exposing yourself to ridicule by typing it out.
    IF you have a passport you can travel abroad.
    let me guess: getting and holding on to a passport is where the crux lies.
    i wonder how many uyghurs have got a passport.
    so what hukou do the uyghurs have?
    they can also move where ever they want? ( as long as it is a concentration camp )
    jack ma must have misplaced his passport?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jscpm View Post
    Heck, respiratory viruses are not affected by the adaptive immune system, but I guess that doesn't matter either, does it? .
    first one to come up in googling adaptive immune system respiratory virus:

    Regulating the adaptive immune response to respiratory virus infection - PubMed

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    Quote Originally Posted by jscpm View Post
    The rationale, if you want to call it that, for taking two vaccines is the following efficacy study: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577. In this study, the researchers deliberately gave all the trial participants two doses and did not even test the "efficacy" of using one dose. If you read the study, you will see that it says right in the text the following: "The study was not designed to assess the efficacy of a single-dose regimen." So, in other words doctors are recommending taking two doses of the vaccine for no other reason than that was the condition the vaccine was tested under. I guess we should be thankful they didn't decide to test a 5-dose regimen instead of a 2-dose regimen.
    i have no problem with the study being designed in a certain way.
    however i cannot take seriously a study in which 82.9 % of the participants are white and 28 % are hispanic.
    a minor error, but quite a lot of people must have just overlooked it before it was published.
    i bet they got payed by pfizer anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jscpm View Post
    Since testing positive is a random chance, the chance of testing positive twice in a row is very low
    the random chance of getting a positive result in a pcr test is one out of two.
    the random chance of getting a second positive result is one out of four.

    unless your definition of random is different than mine that is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jscpm View Post
    It is ridiculous for you to be looking at these absurd statistics and saying, "Oh, this is happening in Indiana and that is happening in Wisconsin" or whatever and wondering why it doesn't make any sense. There is no "virus" and that should have been obvious to you over a year ago when the story was let out that a "deadly" coronavirus had gone from central China to infecting millions in Italy in less than 3 weeks. Real viruses do not teleport themselves across the world. Furthermore, the genome the Chinese government hacks published was an ordinary coronavirus genome that was functionally no different than any of the thousands of other coronavirus genomes that have been in genomic databases for decades. Coronaviruses last for 6-8 weeks before they degrade to an non-infectious state, so whatever virus they sampled in December of 2019 was long gone before the Italians started making their ridiculous stories that "bodies were stacking up in morgues".

    The so-called "cases" that you are putting so much faith in and believing completely healthy people to be infected with some kind of secret asymptomatic disease, are being generated by abuse of PCR machines to do diagnostics in a completely invalid way--something PCR experts have been complaining about incessantly since this hysteria began. Health officials systematically ramp up thermal cycles on the machines to 40 or even 45 which is incredibly and ridiculously excessive. A 45-cycle amplification is 2^45 replications = 35,184,372,088,832. That's 35 trillion replications which is completely and absurdly excessive and all this is doing is generating false positives which of course is exactly what the health officials want to do.

    So, you going around and saying we have a thousand cases here and a thousand cases there is absurd. These are cases of NOTHING. Whether one state has more than another is simply a function of how much "testing" they are doing and how abusive the protocol is that they are using. In New Zealand there are almost no "cases" at all for the simple reason that in New Zealand the policy is to always test anyone who is positive TWICE to "verify" the diagnosis. Since testing positive is a random chance, the chance of testing positive twice in a row is very low which is why there are no cases in New ealand. If we did the same thing in the United States cases would go to nearly zero overnight. But of course actually validating or verifying their bullshit is the last thing these health officials want to do because that would affect the enormous budget supplements they are getting.
    whom is this directed to?

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    The various vaccines are claimed to reduce the severity of the virus by several orders of magnitude once the vaccinated person develops full immunity following the second dose.........vaccines are never claimed to prevent infection from occurring.

    Just a bit of information from my associates.

    A couple we know well picked up covid cases after the first Moderna dose- maybe a couple of weeks in.

    Their young son got it in restaurant work and brought it home to the parents.
    Thankfully the whole lot of them got through the experience with no lasting problems.

    I am not going to bother to look it up but my sense is the efficacy on both fronts- poor outcomes and incidence of any infection are both substantively decreased after "full" vaccination dosing is reached.

    That is while benefit is derived from first shot the second provides substantial enough additional benefit as to be 'required' to be considered effectively protected.

    I believe the vaccination literally is described as "preventing infection" incidence by some 94-95%??

    We just dancing around specific definitions ?

    I suppose on exposure an effective immune response as gained by a vaccine prepped person limits infection to such a degree that the disease is not expressed.
    But one still "catches" the disease?

    One strong note of the data coming in is that those who are fully vaccinated are proving to be >90% reduced as vectors.
    That is a very important benefit to curtailing the spread.

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    I got my first shot of the Moderna vaccine yesterday. So far the only side effect is a sore shoulder. When I got a flu shot in the past I had a pretty strong immune response-typically tired and achy for 2-4 days. With the COVID shot, I haven't hand any of that.

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    Concerning Goldstein's followup post in which he continues to assert that Chinese have freedom of movement in China and do not need permission to exit the country, I think few people here take his characterizations seriously, however, just spell out in more detail the restrictions involved one only needs to consult a satellite image of China. If you do this you can clearly see that large, militarized checkpoints are placed on all the major highways at all the province and city borders. These checkpoints are manned by soldiers in many cases in addition to local police. I have attached a typical photo of such a checkpoint below:

    screenshot-sun-apr-11-08-03-00-am-edt-2021.jpg

    As you can see it is gigantic. The large road fanout is necessary because the "inspections" involved can cause significant delays. Not only do the authorities require passports to pass through the checkpoint (hukou), but in many cases they actually search vehicles as well. Notice that there is a passthrough road that skips past the checkpoint. This is presumably for use by elites and government employees. Also, notice the size of the administrative buildings south of the checkpoint. Those buildings have hundreds of thousands of square footage. This indicates that very large numbers of government employees are involved in these operations and the "inspections" undoubtedly are of a highly probing nature. If you consider that there are literally hundreds of checkpoints identical to this one throughout China, it gives a sense for the sweeping scope of the surveillance and control being exercised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post

    I believe the vaccination literally is described as "preventing infection" incidence by some 94-95%??
    as there is no way to reliably establish the infection itself, the manufacturers give a measure of efficacy expressed in a number of severely ill or deaths avoided.
    in the application for european approval astra zeneca claimed a 100% efficacy as the vaccinated group of about 2,600 people had no deaths and the control group had one death.
    it was left unclear how it was established that this one person had died as a result of covid19.
    in view of the very small size of the groups and the short duration of the study in combination with the low chances of contracting covid19 it is no exaggeration to say the outcome was completely random and is of no real value other than that is proves that the vaccine does not kill many recipients within a short time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jscpm View Post
    Concerning Goldstein's followup post in which he continues to assert that Chinese have freedom of movement in China and do not need permission to exit the country, I think few people here take his characterizations seriously, however, just spell out in more detail the restrictions involved one only needs to consult a satellite image of China. If you do this you can clearly see that large, militarized checkpoints are placed on all the major highways at all the province and city borders. These checkpoints are manned by soldiers in many cases in addition to local police. I have attached a typical photo of such a checkpoint below:

    screenshot-sun-apr-11-08-03-00-am-edt-2021.jpg

    As you can see it is gigantic. The large road fanout is necessary because the "inspections" involved can cause significant delays. Not only do the authorities require passports to pass through the checkpoint (hukou), but in many cases they actually search vehicles as well. Notice that there is a passthrough road that skips past the checkpoint. This is presumably for use by elites and government employees. Also, notice the size of the administrative buildings south of the checkpoint. Those buildings have hundreds of thousands of square footage. This indicates that very large numbers of government employees are involved in these operations and the "inspections" undoubtedly are of a highly probing nature. If you consider that there are literally hundreds of checkpoints identical to this one throughout China, it gives a sense for the sweeping scope of the surveillance and control being exercised.
    those are not checkpoints.
    those are drive through front screen cleaning booths.
    the police and soldiers are only present to deter the uyghurs from committing acts of terrorism.

    but they look quite a lot like the toll booths we know in france though....

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    “ as there is no way to reliably establish the infection itself,”

    What?

    It is simple and routine to robustly establish if an individual has been exposed to the virus regardless of specific outcomes.

    It is also simple and routine to establish exactly which genomic expression is present in that individual.

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    You don't need a 200,000 SF building to run a toll plaza.

    Also, not shown in the photograph is ANOTHER checkpoint about 1000 yards down the road from this one, which all the checkpoints have. These facilities have large parking lots with buses and trucks parked in them. The obvious purpose of these facilities is to shunt off potentially time-consuming inspections so they do not block the main checkpoint. So, in other words, if a bus comes, then it is directed through the checkpoint and told to park in the inspection lot beyond. There, inspectors presumably go through the bus checking the papers of everybody on the bus. At the secondary checkpoint I examined there were many trucks in the lot as well, which would suggest they are actually searching the trucks.

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    Well ,vehicles are searched at checkpoints here too,the authorities in Queensland are making sure all the bananas are bent to the right,as we dont want any of the pinko socialist greenie fruit here......Talking about pinko fruit,did I tell you my Dragonfruit cactus is covered in big fruit this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by red beard View Post
    I got my first shot of the Moderna vaccine yesterday. So far the only side effect is a sore shoulder. When I got a flu shot in the past I had a pretty strong immune response-typically tired and achy for 2-4 days. With the COVID shot, I haven't hand any of that.
    It seems to be rare to get much of a reaction to the first shot other than injection site soreness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jscpm View Post
    Concerning Goldstein's followup post in which he continues to assert that Chinese have freedom of movement in China and do not need permission to exit the country, I think few people here take his characterizations seriously, however, just spell out in more detail the restrictions involved one only needs to consult a satellite image of China. If you do this you can clearly see that large, militarized checkpoints are placed on all the major highways at all the province and city borders. These checkpoints are manned by soldiers in many cases in addition to local police. I have attached a typical photo of such a checkpoint below:

    screenshot-sun-apr-11-08-03-00-am-edt-2021.jpg

    As you can see it is gigantic. The large road fanout is necessary because the "inspections" involved can cause significant delays. Not only do the authorities require passports to pass through the checkpoint (hukou), but in many cases they actually search vehicles as well. Notice that there is a passthrough road that skips past the checkpoint. This is presumably for use by elites and government employees. Also, notice the size of the administrative buildings south of the checkpoint. Those buildings have hundreds of thousands of square footage. This indicates that very large numbers of government employees are involved in these operations and the "inspections" undoubtedly are of a highly probing nature. If you consider that there are literally hundreds of checkpoints identical to this one throughout China, it gives a sense for the sweeping scope of the surveillance and control being exercised.
    I seriously doubt anyone believes the pro commie ant-USA troll who bravely hurls insults hiding behind a keyboard. I doubt unless he is a Chinese government official he even believes the BS he spews. The pathetic thing is this board tolerates his act.

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  20. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by janvanruth View Post
    IF you have a passport you can travel abroad.
    let me guess: getting and holding on to a passport is where the crux lies.
    i wonder how many uyghurs have got a passport.
    so what hukou do the uyghurs have?
    they can also move where ever they want? ( as long as it is a concentration camp )
    jack ma must have misplaced his passport?
    Bottom line in China it is not so easy to move freely from one place to another as in a democracy where freedom as a concept is valued and discussed as a value.

    The Chinese government is highly authoritative - let’s get that mentioned first. They are competent social engineers which is obvious because they are highly involved in promoting business to the benefit for their citizens and their philosophy in regard to Communism. They do Communism proud and surpass the trap of it being so very corrupt that that level is as far as they might get.

    The Chinese Communists are true believers in Communism making the natural transition into Capitalism quite determinedly and competently. They are a credit to Communism and yet still quite repressive in fact which EG chooses not to honestly compare.

    The point made about EG being a unashamed supporter of Chinese Communism is valid. It does not mean that all of EG’s appraisals are inaccurate. Many times he will gloss over things a lot and when he trusts he has addressed the pro China view he then attacks the US. He has a running count of our dead from Covid and stokes divisions which some Americans are taking part in dividing the country. EG has help from Americans who like EG see no problem with America bad Chinese Communism good story.

    How completely naive and Anti American can Americans born and raised be? I get it that many might only be two generation citizens and like tearing down the country their parents chose to live. I understand it because it happens all over yet I say it is subversive bringing down your own adopted country.


    If they hate it that much then the family should consider relocating the family back to the country of origin. Expect most of the family to stay and while they remain they tear it down.

    When someone like EG defends another form of government and spends most of the time connected to that issue he takes his side against his own country.

    To the full extent which he does so should be as clear as day to see. There are persons who will join him in his criticism of the US. They would be naive and thick skulled aginners. Under Trump they had cult followers who now wish to just shun anyone who does not agree with them as their plan of participation in changing America to a unknown and untested change.

    We will see how it goes and so far it has been going poorly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janvanruth View Post
    you stupid fucking moron.
    if you had looked at the numbers, you would have noticed that the number of new cases in texas, since the governor scrapped all covid19 measures, has not gone up.
    it in fact is lower than it was three weeks ago.
    and as you have shit for a brain i will explain why this is important.
    if less masks are worn and the number of cases does not go up it simply means that masks do not work.
    simple enough for you?

    Since so many folks there didn't wear masks anyhow, the more likely scenario is not that masks do not work, but rather that after a year plus of circulation, a lot of people had the virus already, and are still immune, at least to that version. Plenty of folks had cases that were nothing significant as far as symptoms.

    The lack of cases may just be due to the lack of susceptible people left to infect, at least among the ones who would get bad cases. Those were already killed off or are now immune due to having had the virus.

    Masks have worked in many places, and there are examples of them working. Example The two hairstylists in I believe Kansas City, who had covid but didn't realize it for a while.... they wore masks and so did their customers. No cases were ever traced to that situation, despite about 140 people being exposed.

    MOST masks I see are only somewhat effective as typically worn. All the air breathed goes not through the mask, but through the open paths down the folds of the mask to the side of the face. That at least does "deflect", and prevents blasting a load of virus directly into someone else's face when you are talking to them.

    Or the air breathed goes through the totally uncovered nose for those who intentionally or ignorantly "wear a mask" in such a way that it is of zero value.

    Some cheap commercial cloth masks are a rigid material which has only as much effect as one of those stupid clear face shields, just a curved sheet of material in front of the face. Again, just a "deflector", and not a "filter".

    Even the "deflectors " are probably somewhat effective in preventing transmission.... better than someone sneezing in your face.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    “ as there is no way to reliably establish the infection itself,”

    What?

    It is simple and routine to robustly establish if an individual has been exposed to the virus regardless of specific outcomes.

    It is also simple and routine to establish exactly which genomic expression is present in that individual.
    there is a huge difference between having been exposed to, and having been infected by.
    exposure can, to a certain level, be established by pcr or lateral flow testing, infection can not.
    it takes putting tissue in culture to establish infection.
    likewise the being present of a certain genomic expression is not the same as having been infected by that expression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    Bottom line in China it is not so easy to move freely from one place to another as in a democracy where freedom as a concept is valued and discussed as a value.

    The Chinese government is highly authoritative - let’s get that mentioned first. They are competent social engineers which is obvious because they are highly involved in promoting business to the benefit for their citizens and their philosophy in regard to Communism. They do Communism proud and surpass the trap of it being so very corrupt that that level is as far as they might get.

    The Chinese Communists are true believers in Communism making the natural transition into Capitalism quite determinedly and competently. They are a credit to Communism and yet still quite repressive in fact which EG chooses not to honestly compare.

    The point made about EG being a unashamed supporter of Chinese Communism is valid. It does not mean that all of EG’s appraisals are inaccurate. Many times he will gloss over things a lot and when he trusts he has addressed the pro China view he then attacks the US. He has a running count of our dead from Covid and stokes divisions which some Americans are taking part in dividing the country. EG has help from Americans who like EG see no problem with America bad Chinese Communism good story.

    How completely naive and Anti American can Americans born and raised be? I get it that many might only be two generation citizens and like tearing down the country their parents chose to live. I understand it because it happens all over yet I say it is subversive bringing down your own adopted country.


    If they hate it that much then the family should consider relocating the family back to the country of origin. Expect most of the family to stay and while they remain they tear it down.

    When someone like EG defends another form of government and spends most of the time connected to that issue he takes his side against his own country.

    To the full extent which he does so should be as clear as day to see. There are persons who will join him in his criticism of the US. They would be naive and thick skulled aginners. Under Trump they had cult followers who now wish to just shun anyone who does not agree with them as their plan of participation in changing America to a unknown and untested change.

    We will see how it goes and so far it has been going poorly.
    please define communism for me.


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