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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    But we do make a lot of it with gas which is sort of the same industry.
    Bob
    not really

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    We don't make electricity with oil

    yeah, free nuclear power, we heard that before
    “ We don't make electricity with oil

    yeah, free nuclear power, we heard that before”

    No sir. It is still used in places many places. Maybe even your backup generator my use it. Firing furnaces it is true fuel oil is used true.

    For you a quote not that it will convince you though.

    ” Most electricity is generated with steam turbines using fossil fuels, nuclear, biomass, geothermal, and solar thermal energy.”

    From; Electricity in the U.S. - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    Obviously you didn't read my link.

    Natural gas is currently the largest source of energy. End fracking and...........whoosh!! You are literally over the barrel.

    And I agree, oil/gas will keep being used less and less but we will never completely stop burning it for fuel (re. TT's remarks about charging army tanks).

    If you think we can "go green" in a few years, I want whatever you're smoking!
    Virtually no one is talking about actually ending fracking. Fracking has issues and those are being dealt with, but Biden is against fracking on public lands, while trumpski is all Paul Bunyon on the temperate rain forest

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    The greatest propaganda success the KGB ever had was the fear campaign against nuclear power in the 60s and 70s......Weak ,greedy politicians all know that nuclear energy is the answer ,but its so politically damaging to even mention the word ,they deny all knowledge of the nuclear future.
    baloney

    just make some more crap up

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad Hoffman View Post
    The burning of fossil fuels will and needs to go away. It's going to happen, but over many decades or more, not next week or next year. It will happen so slowly you probably won't notice the shift in jobs. Actually, it will happen so slowly you won't notice because you won't be here.
    Yes I agree I would love to see more green and breakthrough in them and including new Nuclear and eventually Fusion. Still fossil fuels are entrenched even in the production of green energy.

    Fossil Fuels are Not Going Away - Fossil Transition Project

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    California had one of the worlds largest oil fiield discovered around 1900. Still producing today but slowing down. The refineries designed for this type of oil are not going to be replaced. They should be, to old, but they will do repairs until the oil is gone then build new and better ones designed for a different source of imported oils. Californian is injecting steam, hot water, soap to get out the last of the oil today.
    Bil lD

    Does Beverly Hills High still have an oil well?

    on edit.

    Beverly Hills Oil Field - Wikipedia

    Midway-Sunset Oil Field - Wikipedia
    Refineries are much easier to be built now. Ecologists have opposed it and most fossil fuels even though no cost effective green energy has clearly stepped forward. Trump eliminated many regulations preventing refineries being built. Each time gasoline has skyrocketed in price it was because of refinery capacity being the same. Regulations - in-roper ones cost us a lot of money. Too they drive a stake into the fossil fuel sector because someone wants to promote green energy.

    The best way to promote it is to get people to pay any price. Global warming supports the narrative. When green becomes profitable it will take off. Forcing the change disregards supply and demand.

    The oil is not running out in California is it? Start fracking it.

    Just saying lower cost energy just improves the economy. If Cali has clean burning gas it would be much friendlier a use until green becomes sustainable. Beautiful state. It seems to outsiders it shoots itself through the foot and recocks the revolver and attempts to put 5 more rounds through the existing hole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    not really
    More than 50% of oil wells also produce Natural gas.
    Pretty near every oil/gas company deals with oil and gas and other byproducts.
    Most oil and gas companies can't operate and survive on a single resource revenue stream.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SND View Post
    More than 50% of oil wells also produce Natural gas.
    Pretty near every oil/gas company deals with oil and gas and other byproducts.
    Most oil and gas companies can't operate and survive on a single resource revenue stream.
    It can depend also though on the price of the oil and or gas also.

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    From where I'm sitting at this moment, 40% of the UK's power is coming from wind (a lot is offshore), 26% is nuclear from an ageing fleet of gas cooled reactors and one PWR 7% is from one station burning Canadian wood chips, 15% is from combined cycle gas poince the mid '80s with one exception. wered plants 6% imported from France's PWRs and other dribs and drabs from elsewhere.

    Oil hasn't figured since the mid '80s with one exception*. Coal hasn't been burned at all since April this year and probsbly won't be any more. Solar is peaking at about 20% during the middle of the day at this time of year, but contributes more in the summer. Pumped storage hits +/- 5% when needed.

    Basically, combined cycle gas turbines (gas TG followed by steam boiler/TG) are picking up the difference between the demand and the fixed (nuclear) and free (wind, hydro). Over the last few years more and more of the generation has come from wind and solar. Nuclear has remained constant, but could expand if our governerment and utilities got their fingers out of their asses. Offshore wind (which the UK has an abundance of) will grow and the CCGTs will have less to carry. The combined cycle plants are the fossil fule equivalent of pumped storage, they can come online within minutes, with full power production in tens of minutes, compared with the best of the previous generation oil plants needing 4 hours. This drasticly reduces the cost of the 'spinning reserve' of idle plants running and waiting for a load spike or plant failure. The variations in wind and solar generation are easily predicted for even in a country as small as the UK, since weather doesn't change instantneously over a few hundred miles.

    What was all this drunken blather about?:- Using coal and oil for power generation is something that will disappear quite soon because it isn't economically viable compared with the zero fuel costs of wind and solar. Gas (ok GTs can burn oil as well). will remain as a peak lopping function and any nuclear and hydro will just keep running flat out.

    If you are a coal miner, look for another job. If you are in the oil industry, tell your kids to look for something different.

    *
    In 1985 during the Miners' strike I was at our oil fired station at Littlebrookk DLittlebrook Power Station - Wikipedia after being at the commisioning in 1982, the CEGB were running our 660MW turbines at 750MW by over firing the boilers and cutting the HP feedwater heaters off to increase output at the cost of efficiency and plant life. The station had very little running after that)

    PS:- if this is all irrational, it's because I've had too many botles of beer. tonight..
    Last edited by Mark Rand; 10-30-2020 at 08:39 AM. Reason: fixed a typo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    From where I'm sitting at this moment, 40% of the UK's power is coming from wind (a lot is offshore), 26% is nuclear from an ageing fleet of gas cooled reactors and one PWR 7% is from one station burning Canadian wood chips, 15% is from combined cycle gas poince the mid '80s with one exception. wered plants 6% imported from France's PWRs and other dribs and drabs from elsewhere.

    Oil hasn't figured since the mid '80s with one exception*. Coal hasn't been burned at all since April this year and probsbly won't be any more. Solar is peaking at about 20% during the middle of the day at this time of year, but contributes more in the summer. Pumped storage hits +/- 5% when needed.

    Basically, combined cycle gas turbines (gas TG followed by steam boiler/TG) are picking up the difference between the demand and the fixed (nuclear) and free (wind, hydro). Over the last few years more and more of the generation has come from wind and solar. Nuclear has remained constant, but could expand if our governerment and utilities got their fingers out of their asses. Offshore wind (which the UK has an abundance of) will grow and the CCGTs will have less to carry. The combined cycle plants are the fossil fule equivalent of pumped storage, they can come online within minutes, with full power production in tens of minutes, compared with the best of the previous generation oil plants needing 4 hours. This drasticly reduces the cost of the 'spinning reserve' of idle plants running and waiting for a load spike or plant failure. The variations in wind and solar generation are easily predicted for even in a country as small as the UK, since weather doesn't change instantneously over a few hundred miles.

    What was all this drunken blather about?:- Using coal and oil for power generation is something that will disappear quite soon because it isn't economically viable compared with the zero fuel costs of wind and solar. Gas (ok GTs can burn oil as well). will remain as a peak lopping function and any nuclear and hydro will just keep running flat out.

    If you are a coal miner, look for another job. If you are in the oil industry, tell your kids to look for something different.

    *
    In 1985 during the Miners' strike I was at our oil fired station at Littlebrookk DLittlebrook Power Station - Wikipedia after being at the commisioning in 1982, the CEGB were running our 660MW turbines at 750MW by over firing the boilers and cutting the feedwater off to increase output at the cost of efficiency and plant life. The station had very little running after that)

    PS:- if this is all irrational, it's because I've had too many botles of beer. tonight..
    It is good. Still y’all get energy from under sea cables from Europe plus the Nuclear soon goes away but gas which is a fossil fuel can fill any gap as you build up. I do not think you will stop North Sea oil capture. With our population and industry it can be tough and we have fossil fuels going good now. Remember gas is a fossil fuel still. Glad you are off coal. The third world does not have enough money to build like we can. BP still is into fossil fuels too.

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    Americans largely support the move to green energy. Currently there is so much tied into fossil fuels and as green does improve the market and the support for green will move things forward. Like England and the west in general this trend is clear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    “ We don't make electricity with oil

    yeah, free nuclear power, we heard that before”

    No sir. It is still used in places many places. Maybe even your backup generator my use it. Firing furnaces it is true fuel oil is used true.

    For you a quote not that it will convince you though.

    ” Most electricity is generated with steam turbines using fossil fuels, nuclear, biomass, geothermal, and solar thermal energy.”

    From; Electricity in the U.S. - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
    .5 percent of electricity was generated with oil last year

    oil is used for tons of things, hell, I heat with oil. Mostly it is made into gasoline

    I do not know what your quote was meant to convince anyone of

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    From where I'm sitting at this moment, 40% of the UK's power is coming from wind (a lot is offshore), 26% is nuclear from an ageing fleet of gas cooled reactors and one PWR 7% is from one station burning Canadian wood chips, 15% is from combined cycle gas poince the mid '80s with one exception. wered plants 6% imported from France's PWRs and other dribs and drabs from elsewhere.

    Oil hasn't figured since the mid '80s with one exception*. Coal hasn't been burned at all since April this year and probsbly won't be any more. Solar is peaking at about 20% during the middle of the day at this time of year, but contributes more in the summer. Pumped storage hits +/- 5% when needed.

    Basically, combined cycle gas turbines (gas TG followed by steam boiler/TG) are picking up the difference between the demand and the fixed (nuclear) and free (wind, hydro). Over the last few years more and more of the generation has come from wind and solar. Nuclear has remained constant, but could expand if our governerment and utilities got their fingers out of their asses. Offshore wind (which the UK has an abundance of) will grow and the CCGTs will have less to carry. The combined cycle plants are the fossil fule equivalent of pumped storage, they can come online within minutes, with full power production in tens of minutes, compared with the best of the previous generation oil plants needing 4 hours. This drasticly reduces the cost of the 'spinning reserve' of idle plants running and waiting for a load spike or plant failure. The variations in wind and solar generation are easily predicted for even in a country as small as the UK, since weather doesn't change instantneously over a few hundred miles.

    What was all this drunken blather about?:- Using coal and oil for power generation is something that will disappear quite soon because it isn't economically viable compared with the zero fuel costs of wind and solar. Gas (ok GTs can burn oil as well). will remain as a peak lopping function and any nuclear and hydro will just keep running flat out.

    If you are a coal miner, look for another job. If you are in the oil industry, tell your kids to look for something different.

    *
    In 1985 during the Miners' strike I was at our oil fired station at Littlebrookk DLittlebrook Power Station - Wikipedia after being at the commisioning in 1982, the CEGB were running our 660MW turbines at 750MW by over firing the boilers and cutting the feedwater off to increase output at the cost of efficiency and plant life. The station had very little running after that)

    PS:- if this is all irrational, it's because I've had too many botles of beer. tonight..
    I think you are reading out of someone's play book, because your assessment of wind is full of shit. Wind is producing more and more of our energy, yes, but way less than 1/2 of your wild assed statement. It is extraordinarily expensive. Maintenance costs are over the moon and the only reason it exists is because it is being subsidized by everything else that does work. Wind is a fools errand. Harvesting energy through a medium is only practical when there is a large differential between before and after extraction of that medium. Wind and tide systems are doomed to failure because of that simple rule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    I think you are reading out of someone's play book, because your assessment of wind is full of shit. Wind is producing more and more of our energy, yes, but way less than 1/2 of your wild assed statement. It is extraordinarily expensive. Maintenance costs are over the moon and the only reason it exists is because it is being subsidized by everything else that does work. Wind is a fools errand. Harvesting energy through a medium is only practical when there is a large differential between before and after extraction of that medium. Wind and tide systems are doomed to failure because of that simple rule.
    actually it is you who is full of it.


    Solar And Wind Costs Continue To Fall As Power Becomes Cleaner



    To quote this commie rag:
    Solar PV and onshore wind are now the cheapest sources of new-build generation for at least two-thirds of the global population, according to the latest analysis by BloombergNEF (BNEF). The research group says that the global benchmark levelized cost of electricity (LCOE) for onshore wind and utility-scale PV has fallen 9% and 4% respectively since the second half of 2019 – to $44/MWh and $50/MWh, respectively. The benchmark LCOE for battery storage now sits at $150/MWh, having halved in price from two years ago.

    This means that solar PV and onshore wind are now the cheapest sources of new-build generation for at least two-thirds of the global population. Those two-thirds live in locations that comprise 71% of gross domestic product and 85% of energy generation, BNEF says.

    and this:

    Seb Henbest, chief economist at BNEF, warned: “The coronavirus will have a range of impacts on the relative cost of fossil and renewable electricity. One important question is what happens to the costs of finance over the short and medium term. Another concerns commodity prices – coal and gas prices have weakened on world markets. If sustained, this could help shield fossil fuel generation for a while from the cost onslaught from renewables.”

    They are speaking of low gas prices protecting fossil fuel generation from the low cost of renewables

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    .5 percent of electricity was generated with oil last year

    oil is used for tons of things, hell, I heat with oil. Mostly it is made into gasoline

    I do not know what your quote was meant to convince anyone of
    Fair point. Yet to be fair also my cite mentioned that fact .
    More detail.
    Electricity in the U.S. - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

    Quote from you; “ We don't make electricity with oil

    yeah, free nuclear power, we heard that before”

    Even less than one percent is a lot more than saying none. The cite I gave provided the figure of less than 1%.

    Still you said it was not used to produce electricity.

    No big deal. Diesel is used along with gas for backup generators also.

    Byproducts are quite widely used for heating too. Here is a list of byproducts. Use of oil - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    I think you are reading out of someone's play book, because your assessment of wind is full of shit. Wind is producing more and more of our energy, yes, but way less than 1/2 of your wild assed statement. It is extraordinarily expensive. Maintenance costs are over the moon and the only reason it exists is because it is being subsidized by everything else that does work. Wind is a fools errand. Harvesting energy through a medium is only practical when there is a large differential between before and after extraction of that medium. Wind and tide systems are doomed to failure because of that simple rule.

    If you followed the first link in my post it would have taken you to a realtime display of Great Britain's power generation.
    Here it is again:- G. B. National Grid status. At the time I posted, wind was, indeed producing 40% of the generation.
    You can also follow it to a similar page showing the French grid. That one's an eye opener!

    As for maintenance costs, Boilers, Steam turbines and gas turbines have significant ongoing maintenance costs. Shutdowns for overhaul, repair, re-Blading re-tubing varying from annual to decadal intervals (I've done work at stations during these outages) They also consume fuel, which is a major cost. Wind and solar don't. Currently onshore and offshore wind and solar are all cheaper than coal generation and onshore wind and solar are actually cheaper than combined cycle gas stations. They will take an ever larger part of the generation mix as time goes on simply because utilities are there to make money from the business. The growth of electricity and hydrogen into road transport will take a lot longer but it's already started. I'd guess about 40 years before it's the main way of powering road vehicles.

    I'm not going to live to see it, but my kids probably will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    If you followed the first link in my post it would have taken you to a realtime display of Great Britain's power generation.
    Here it is again:- G. B. National Grid status. At the time I posted, wind was, indeed producing 40% of the generation.
    You can also follow it to a similar page showing the French grid. That one's an eye opener!

    As for maintenance costs, Boilers, Steam turbines and gas turbines have significant ongoing maintenance costs. Shutdowns for overhaul, repair, re-Blading re-tubing varying from annual to decadal intervals (I've done work at stations during these outages) They also consume fuel, which is a major cost. Wind and solar don't. Currently onshore and offshore wind and solar are all cheaper than coal generation and onshore wind and solar are actually cheaper than combined cycle gas stations. They will take an ever larger part of the generation mix as time goes on simply because utilities are there to make money from the business. The growth of electricity and hydrogen into road transport will take a lot longer but it's already started. I'd guess about 40 years before it's the main way of powering road vehicles.

    I'm not going to live to see it, but my kids probably will.
    Well ya might have to know some people that actually make the things. They say maintainence is sky high. Too they take up lots of land. Isn’t it true that your wind generation is relatively new? Everyone will see later just how much it costs and it becomes costly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    Fair point. Yet to be fair also my cite mentioned that fact .
    More detail.
    Electricity in the U.S. - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

    Quote from you; “ We don't make electricity with oil

    yeah, free nuclear power, we heard that before”

    Even less than one percent is a lot more than saying none. The cite I gave provided the figure of less than 1%.

    Still you said it was not used to produce electricity.
    (EIA)[/url]
    Go pick nits elsewhere.
    Oil is not a part of the financial puzzle of electricity production and its use in such is not interesting in the machine shop portion of oil related work

    The real drover I would think in that work is the price of a barrel of oil, and that sucks right now.
    My personal opinion is that as consumption drops, prices will drop due to overcapacity, but long term they will rise as more oil is used as non commodity product, thus making oil related work while smaller in scale, just a profitable for the foreseeable future

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    Well ya might have to know some people that actually make the things. They say maintainence is sky high. Too they take up lots of land. Isn’t it true that your wind generation is relatively new? Everyone will see later just how much it costs and it becomes costly.
    Cost of maintenance is probably very high

    I think it is made up for my the cost of fuel

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Go pick nits elsewhere.
    Oil is not a part of the financial puzzle of electricity production and its use in such is not interesting in the machine shop portion of oil related work

    The real drover I would think in that work is the price of a barrel of oil, and that sucks right now.
    My personal opinion is that as consumption drops, prices will drop due to overcapacity, but long term they will rise as more oil is used as non commodity product, thus making oil related work while smaller in scale, just a profitable for the foreseeable future
    Quote from you; “ We don't make electricity with oil

    yeah, free nuclear power, we heard that before”

    Not meaning to nit pick really. I agree with your other points. Generators use diesel for generation which is very often critical electricity production. Fossil fuels permeate American energy. To go green will happen when it gets more profitable and a majority want green energy and support innovations and breakthroughs in that endeavor.


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