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  1. #81
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    Rule one: pelmanism and cognac don't mix.

    http://www.vazcarreiro.net/Pelmanism24.html


    ...What is worrying me is that people regardless of colour are getting up-ity or even jealous about the " blue bloods" or whatever tag they wish to adopt.
    Norman, please elucidate as the milkman was a thick one also.

  2. #82
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    JimK said: ‘Look at Rudolph Diesel's invention. The USA literally ran away with it. In twenty five years, the USA was the major supplier of Diesel engines and Americans had more patents associated with the engine than anyone else anywhere.’

    I’d be interested to know more, as I wasn’t aware of American diesels having made much of an impact outside the USA until the 1930s. The major European manufacturing nations were self-sufficient in diesels, as well as exporting them all over ‘the rest of the world’, from early in the 20th century. Germany, Britain, France, Switzerland, Holland, Sweden and others had many diesel engine makers, who furnished their own and others’ requirements for engines for stationary use, trucks, railways, ships, boats, submarines, aircraft, etc. Many of the names are still around, like MAN, Burmeister & Wain, Mercedes-Benz, Sulzer, and many of the other pioneering firms still exist, absorbed by larger companies.

    The story of Dr Diesel would probably make good reading. At present I know little about him, although I’ve read that the first companies to try to build engines under his patents were disappointed to find that they didn’t work. Dr Diesel’s mysterious disappearance is apparently the subject of various conspiracy theories.

    Any, this is somewhat off topic, but no matter, since the post doesn’t seem to be shedding much light on the future prospects for engineering in Germany.

    Johann said: ‘…… if one engineer talks bad, he´ll shy away 10 students...that´s why I´ll stop now.’ When I was 17 and working in a steelworks, the rolling mill’s chief engineer always looked glum, and advised me never to become an engineer. I ignored his advice. You see, I was young, and he was older, so naturally I knew best.

  3. #83
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    Smallshop,
    this milkman joke is an English classic. A bit like the Census Taker who went from door to door increasing the population.
    It's all a bit silly but that is what humour is all about.

    Unquestionably, a person who leaves State school at the age of 14 and after the limits of a wartime education, cannot be regarded as a 'blue blood' I came from a pit row and the oft quoted tin bath nailed on the street wall was the indication of one's wealth. The rich had one that hadn't a pot mender thing to stop the leak.
    Returning to the question of 'blue bloods' and I suppose that I should, frankly most of the elite went to war straight from the University Air Squadrons and two out of three of the cream of British manhood died screaming in the flames of their stricken aircraft. It's true.
    The sons of the local landowners lying dead in their mangled aircraft were then liable to something called Death Duties, levied by a benevolent British Government for their unquestioned courage. Of course, I am bitter and twisted.I was the boy who watched my 'blue bloods' die. I heard their screams and I still do.

    I wasn't alone and my conclusions are not isolated but one of my friend's daughters married the last of the line. If you go to Edinburgh and Princes street, the name is there on some of the most prestigious property but no members of that proud family are there any more.

    Look again at what are laughingly called " The Stately Homes of England" and determine how many were taken in exchange for Death Duties and are owned by the National Trust. Look it up!

    I am sorry smallshop that you have a down on 'blue bloods' Despite the so called House of Lords with peers in fancy vermin, most are new and not the old brigade.

    Please be careful expressing your jealousies.
    Most of us are what we call "New Money"

    Norm

  4. #84
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    Michael S:

    Sorry for any confusion, I went off on a tangent concerning press feeders, however the last sentence of my third paragraph says The Kluge feeder was an early attempt to automate paper feeding and delivery on that specific jobbing press. I had already defined the Kluge press as a platen press.

    Press manufacturers quote their maximum geared speed. The Heidleberg windmill and the heidleberg cylinder press in the smaller sizes plus the late model Miehle vertical and some Koenig and Bauer and Miller cylinder presses had geared speeds of 5,000 impressions per hour. Problem was, you wouldn't want to stand next to one when it was going that fast!

    The offset presses and the cylinder letterpresses have simpler paper paths but that doesn't reduce the problems in feeding. If anything, the faster press speed occasioned by these simpler paper paths puts more demand on the feeder mechanism and the pressman.

    Printing is production factory work. The printer and the machine shop owner are both concerned with the production rate of their machines.

    Competing manufacturers have turned this into an obsession with rated mechanical speed or machine cycle time.

    As it is with any production situation, the machine rate is no where near the production rate. The machine will always be slowed by difficulties with materials. If that isn't enough, production will be slowed by inefficient handling of work in process.

    The tortoise and hare story is for factory production men, not necessairily for kids.

    In truth 5,000 IPH or 6,500 IPH is fast enough for any 10,000 impression run. The cost of a short run job like that is in the paper and pre press labor. Running a modern offset machine at 10,000 IPH saves no time on a job like that.

    Modern presses, as I said, cruise at 8,500. That gives plenty of time for the magic of lithography to happen and occasions far less prolems with paper feeding.

    This same holds true with CNC machining. A machine that goes slower in all operations will not necessairily have a slower overall production rate. The idea of a two second tool change and five seconds from metal to metal simply strains the tool changing system and in many cases, strains the rapid travels of the main machine.

    Their is an entire branch of engineering that deals with production situations. Analysis is brought to bear on the process, not the individual machines.

    Sadly, too few engineers are trained in this line of work and even more sadly, few shop managers and shop owners are aware enough of the nature of their own processes to do a competant analysis.

    At one time the USA led the way in this field and I think today that we still do in our bigger outfits.

    There is a shortage of this kind of engineering training and I think it is world wide. Maybe it is time that people not think only of a general engineer's shortage but ask "What engineering discliplines do we need?" and go about trying to fill those positions first.

  5. #85
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    Asquith:

    When I said that the USA ran away with Rudolph Diesel's engine, we did it tn two ways.

    First we improved the design of various components and materials.

    Second we went into high volume production. There were many shops who made Diesel engines and the larger shops produced the engines, even the very large ones in prodidgeous quantities.

    Just after WWI, the domestic US market for Diesel engines was huge. At that time, the country was just opening up the interior. West of the Alleghenies and east of the rockies there was a terrific demand for remote power plants in locations where plentiful condensing water militated against the steam power plant.

    In our southwest, oil was plentiful and very cheap. The Diesel was THE answer.

    Meanwhile, back on the coasts. small and medium sized water craft were clamoring for Diesel engines. There were many Diesel engine makers on the West coast to the extent that they were probably the leaders in manufacturing in places where otherwise there would be no machine factories.

    In the 1930's Caterpillar had started making Diesel engines as had International Harvester. These companies seeded American Diesel engines world wide. That in addition to the export market already being tended by the large engine manufactuurers.

    The total porduction of American made Diesel engines for export and domestic consumption far surpassed the total similar figures of all of Europe.

    All of this happened five or ten years before WWII. Rudolph Diesel would have lived to see it.

    Dr. Diesel's early demise is ripe for conspiracy theories. He was on his way across the channel to England when he disappeared. Kaiser Willhelm's navy brass didn't care for the prospect of England having Diesel engines aboard their sumarines. That is coutered by the stories that Dr. Diesel was subject to depression and heavily in debt.

    Was he pushed or did he jump?

    Either way, Germany ended up short one engineer.

    That was alarming even in 1915!

  6. #86
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    I am sorry smallshop that you have a down on 'blue bloods' Despite the so called House of Lords with peers in fancy vermin, most are new and not the old brigade.
    When folks are overly focused on pride of ancestry it seems as shallow to me as .....
    Norman, You misunderstand, I am not down on blue bloods. The issue I have been thumping is that to ascribe value to ones self because of "breeding" is silly to me.

    Some old warrior with a sharp blade and no aversion to using it helps to save the King's bacon. He gains land and title and in a few short generations his offspring are "gentlemen and ladie's". Some of the gentlemen would wet themselves if they could meet their grand sire face to face.Yet in every generation there will be lads of promise. These stand on their own legs not those of a dead ancestor and probably have less affinity for the historical trifles of a long dead relative. This is because they are doers and are achieving their own conquests. These have the right to be proud of ancestry because they are of like kind.

    My other reference for blue bloods scrambling to do damage control has a bit more to do with this side of the pond than yours.I have noticed that the folks here in the US that focus undue attention on ancestry seem to make it the center of their life.Their values shift to where a persons family history is more important than the individual.If they could actually see every branch of their family tree they might not blow the trumpet so loudly.

    The beauty of heritage is when a family has consistently made character of prime importance for generations. honesty,bravery,compassion, etc. Yet if we value the child of nobility over the upstart with promise, we err.

    I am sorry for your losses in the war and realize that some wounds don't heal. After being shot down my father had his nineteenth birthday in a japanese prison camp on mainland China. He made it home at wars end to find many of his friends were gone.He turned 80 last week and still grieves for the friends of his youth.....

  7. #87
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    How much blue in English blood is Prussian blue??

    Who was cousin to who?

    It don't mean a whit

    From where we sit

    In the USA you rise by what you do.

  8. #88
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    Smallshop,
    Ahem, I have my wife's family tree.
    My wife blows a mean bass saxophone- if that is what you mean. Mine, well, we are working on it.
    I got to the interesting bit of 8 aunts on my father's side and noted that had the whole coven gone to war, your very brave Dad and all his long lost pals would not have been needed.
    Hitler would have given in and Hirohito would never have gone to Pearl. A fearsome bunch! Give me a ticking bomb anyday!

    We do agree about the real values.
    The family crest reads "Fama Semper Vivit" and translates " Our Reputation Liveth Forever"
    Maybe your Dad deserves something like that.
    We are trying to live up to the old motto.

    My good wishes

    Norm

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    My family crest: Lucre, non veritas!

    [img]smile.gif[/img]

    Jim

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    Jim,
    Filthy stuff but it is probably true enough.
    I bet that you have your first dime with a hole in it and a string attached.

    Just kidding! Nice to hear from you.

    Norm

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    JimK,

    I've heard the theory about Dr Diesel being assassinated in 1913 on his way to England, in order to prevent Britain getting diesel engines for its submarines. There's a small flaw in this theory: the Royal Navy already had about a dozen diesel subs by 1913, the first being commissioned in 1909!

    Incidentally, here's a WW1 Vickers submarine diesel engine. Would you care to sling your hammock between a pair of those buggers?……

    Engine

  12. #92
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    More executives leave South Africa

    The sector showing the second largest loss was manufacturing and production where some 16% of respondents said they had lost top executives. There was no figure for the previous year.

    The latter area is of particular concern as it includes highly skilled professionals like engineers who are vital to a multi-billion rand government plan to upgrade infrastructure, especially ahead of the 2010 Soccer World Cup.
    Such is the urgency of the skills crisis in South Africa that officials have said the government may need to re-enlist experienced whites who lost their jobs due to affirmative action policies aimed at promoting black economic empowerment.


    If any of you are planning on going to the World Cup in South Africa, be sure to have your will made out before you leave so that your machine tools will have a good home after your demise.

  13. #93
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    Art_deco_machine,


    Good night and thank you for sharing this precious knowledge with us.

  14. #94
    art_deco_machine Guest

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    It is possible that Rudolph Diesel commited suicide over the depressing thought that his invention, which he thought would bring peace to the world, was being used in instruments of war. Yes, he invented it for the noble purpose of trying to keep the small craftsman in business. The large factories run with steam engines, were putting the small guy out of business. Diesel thought that if he could make a small engine which ran off of cheap fuel, that the small manufacturer would have a source of energy and could compete with the big factory. He thought that this would bring prosperity to everyone and that this prosperity would bring an end to war.

    There was that Spainish aviation inventor, I can't remember his name, who thought his invention of the airplane would somehow end war. When he saw it actually being used in war, it so upset him that he killed himself.

    Cummins had the genius to make the Diesel engine small. Thus it became useful in trucks and farm tractors. Cheap transportation thus putting more small, local craftsmen out of business.

    let me make it clear IMO you are a nasty piece of work, and an ignorant man.
    Thanks, you made my day. The man who has no enemies is worthless. Freedom of speech means someone gets offended. So I don't apologize. But if you can point to any of my 626 posts where I called someone a bad name, I will apologize for that.

    Norman, you bring a tear to my eye. I remember the friend that my uncle brought here a few times years ago. His head was bald and all bumpy. The were both clients of the Roanoke Virginia state mental hospital. The man was a nervous wreck, and I guess a mental hospital is a good place for such people. Maybe no home would have taken him in. Maybe his own family threw him out. I was young and didn't know. They said he had been a tail gunner in bombers over Europe. It wasn't until years later that I found out that most tail gunners died. To meet a living, 'retired' tail gunner was a rarity.

  15. #95
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    Which President (I think it was LBJ)said something about one not expecting a people who have been oppressed for soo long to be granted freedom and for society to say ok now its all even.

    The Afrikaans had a progrom for blacks for decades where they destroyed the native languages and customs/religons and stopped blacks from receiving education.The news article is a good case of self fullfillying prohecy.

    The intention of the missionaries and cultural destruction was too cause irreparable harm and conflict for the blacks.

    It will take a lot of time to overcome and get past the effects of Apartheid.
    A tribe/ethnic group needs to retain their native culture to have a good chance in succeding/surving.The afore mentioned cultural genocide definetly has an effect in regards to thsi article.

    Art
    2 of your old posts are supportive of the Pro-Apartheid whites so no surprise with this latest post.

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    It will take a lot of time to overcome and get past the effects of Apartheid.

    Some but not all of the anti-Apartheid groups also discouraged young men and women from getting education. They claimed that the schools were "indoctrinating young people" to cooperate with Apartheid. So not a few kids of color grew up to be adults with minimal useful skills.

    Fortunately the US and other nations forced their corporate people in Azania to educate their workers. I think it was called the "Sullivan Act" after Reverend Sullivan. His other big deal was founding the Coalition to Ban Handguns, along with former CIA Chief Bill Colby.


    What needs to be emphasized, by the way, is that the British occupation authority created the "pass system" during the turn of the last century. Apartheid began as a British system, to keep blacks, "coloreds" and Afrikaans speaking whites "in line". Recall if you will that the Anglo-Boer war had just ended and it was a messy messy insurgency, complete with concentration camps, collective punishment, etc.

    Moreover, Afrikaaner children were forbidden to speak Afrikaans in school. They were forced into menial positions, under the dominant anglophonic authorities.

    The Afrikaaners bid their time until the British grew tired, and then using various underground movements (Bruderbund) they were able to create an official system of oppression. Basically they coopted the same system the Brits used, only they were in charge.

    The current crop of rulers in Azania are under considerable impediment. They tend to be ideologically correct. Their ancestors ran their affairs pretty well prior to the Dutch arriving. Aside occaisional tribal strife they lived pretty well for iron age people.

    Many of them are socialist and all of them tend to be loyal to their tribes. Sooner or later they'll hash it out, as has happened all through post colonial Africa.

    Now Zimbabwe on the other hand.... man what a mess!! That's just because Mugabe is a pig, a pig who got mollycoddled by the Brits and later other powers. Everyone wants that chrome, man!

    Gene

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    Asquith:

    I'd gladly sling a hammock between two of those big babies. [img]smile.gif[/img]

    From what I have seen of the crew's quarters on board ship my rack would be more roomy and wouldn't smell like the gob next to me.

    The steady running of a Diesel puts me right to sleep. Let it miss a beat and I'm up. Otherwise I wouldn't be making any bets on which of us three sounds more like a Diesel.

    One time on a fishing trip 20 miles out in the Atlantic I took my afternoon nap on top of the engine house of the boat, directly over a GM 6-71 running at 3/4 throttle. I woke up when the skipper throttled back.

    So, no problem - when do we shove off, Cap'n?

  18. #98
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    "Hard work is the antithesis of good engineering if it is not necessary to get the job done. Over here, good engineering is getting the job done timely and with the least labor, which is really saying at the least cost. Already said too much - A.T."


    This means maximizing profit on a day to day work basis. It works well for a good time but is longterm destructive. I know from decades of personal experience in the USA, one place after the other folding as I leave.

    Looks like Americans favor the waggon train mentality of engineering. Why should things look beautifull on top of being practical. In Germany we are looking to make money with the repairs, not even considering to do it cheaply. But I like the American way better.

    There are times when managers (as representatives of owners / entrepreneurs) feel times are changing and they need to adjust/react to different fundamentals that are appearing on the horizon or that are already in place.

    This was the case in Germany in the 1950's where engineers were in short supply but unemployed experienced engineers were not hired because they were not educated in the latest thinking fashions / thought trends. This happened to a family member, an electronic engineer, at the time.

    This appears to have also been the case when GE laid of engineers and hired new ones to build faulty compressors at a loss of half a billion dollars.

    This is happening today when exprienced workers get laid off and unskilled labor takes their place. The managers or owners that control the beancounters simply lack understanding of the true nature of their problems. Easy money up front and false believes supported by their golf course dumb buddies blinds them to a blighted future they themselves create for this generation and their own offspring.

    Entrepreneurs are better know for their brass balls then their smarts. Now, where do the rest of us fit in, are we all satisfied with being the victims of brazen mental baby dimwits?


    I find the most accurate answer to this thread is this:

    "First there were not enough engineers (politics warns about german future), so you go into engineering school. Then when you come out, the market is swamped with engineers (politics now warns people about unemployment for engineering graduates). Graduates are abused and underpaid by employers (see Johann's comments). The public notices, so the next couple of school graduate generations skip engineering. Suddenly a lack of engineers is spotted just ahead. What happens? Big howling "we do not have enough engineers". Continue cycle. Its never just right. Its either too many or too few. There is never any planning, just reacting. Usually with big headlines in the tabloids."


    This holds true for all countries all of the time. It was precisely the situation in Germany in the 50's.

  19. #99
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    ADM,
    John Nichols, the nav in my sister squadron who went down in the Gulf wrote of Tail End Charlies. One of my old associates is one.
    Multi millionaire and wanders around in a old mac and wraps his skis up in old deck chair material. The job does get through no matter how long the interval since- you watch your mates being hosed out of the shattered turrets!
    Something, I suspect, that you never got near.
    This is what these people- Brit or Yank gave you.
    And you should be thankful for that unswerving devotion to duty.

    I never got to being a tail end charlie. It was early 1950. The Berlin Airlift(Plainfare) was over- and we could breathe again. HMS Truculent had been rammed off Sheerness near the mouth of the Thames. We had pulled VP-981 from her service and we were over the wreck marker where men where beating on the stricken sub's hull.
    It gives you a feeling of helplessness when you know you can only hope that the Royal Navy lifting gear might work. Have you been there?
    The little Devon lands on our little patch of green and we are all sick- gutted, ashamed and sad. Life- unpleasant as it was got worse.
    Somebody was sticking a needle in me- Blackwater, Yellow fever, all the tropical stuff.
    The two tiny ambulance Avro Ansons TX-222 and VM-327 were being stripped of everything to get more fuel to get down to the Gold Coast.The natives were in revolt- what's new? Our boys were in hospital and needed evacuating. We had no choppers- only Missouri had choppers and the Yanks were not really interested. Two fragile canvas planes were all that Britain had. And I- Art Deco- was one of the crews was at my desk- with my 9mm Sten gun and ammopouches slung in a corner with a canvas note pad, paper and those ink pencil things. I was flying shotgun to the Admin Officer whilst the old Arthur, the Boss was in the other kite.I was 19 and -all they had.

    Don't give me the BS- young man. My turn really came later. We were on the mountain with a stretcher and the Brits were firing 25 pound shells- and you can't run. I said the Brits- but that- sunshine-is another story.

    That was part of life. The need for men of courage, nerve, stabilty is still there. My boys in the Squadron are still at " Battle Stations".
    Since 1915, the faces have changed, the aircraft are better but the job is just the same.
    The Old Battle Standard is trooped down the thinning rows of veterans. We shuffle to stand up; we wink at each other with knowing eyes. We tried to add another place on the shimmering silk flag.
    For many people-ADM- why good men and women now should put their precious lives in such peril for such*****

    I seem to have run out of space.

    Norm

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    Norman,

    ADM's post was sincere and not meant in sarcasm. While I don't agree with some of his viewpoints He shows strong concern for his country and the future. We will never take tea together due to differing philosophies. My father (the tailgunner) and Art Deco would get along famously. They draw much different conclusions to certain information than most of us do.How they get there...no idea. I'm grateful my old man fought to retain my right to sound off on Art Deco's beliefs and Art Deco's right to espouse them.My hunch is Art D would be a guy you would want next to you in a foxhole.


    ...Just trying to keep the baby from going with the bath water....

    Ted


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