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  1. #141
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    Car makers are already clearing the decks for EVs.....Honda ,for instance ,has eliminated more than half of its dealer networks ,and is radically changing the car sales paradigm......No longer will cars be sold to distributors ,then sold again to dealers ,but Honda now plan to sell factory direct to customer,dealers will be sales agents ,paid a set comission on each car sold......This strategy is to circumvent dog eat dog price cutting in a falling market ,without triggering prosecutions under retail price maintenance laws.

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    And .incidentally...gasoline is already $6+ a US gallon here(for the premium type) ,there is plenty of sunlight for solar ...yet EVs are few and far between....supposedly less EVs here than just about anywhere else......I dont look for such things,but I have seen one (1) Tesla on the road here ....and wouldnt know any other EV......What is hard to miss is the old (80+) geezers driving F450s ,who cant navigate supermarket car parks without driving over garden beds .

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  4. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    If we could just force petro gas up to $6.00 a gallon electric cars would look more favorable.
    And we could mandate that every family have a horse for when the grid is down.
    Oh, I forgot about the horse farts. We could just can the farts for home cooking fuel.
    This might work and it has been used a lot in China.

    Chinese man pulling a person riding the taxi - Google Search

    Truely it is hard to see that GM would ever really. Reach the point where they did not care about the US market. I think it is over 50% here by the way. Too for the other 50% in China to think GM would say “Let’s forget about that we are in China. “
    I have a hard time believing people would walk away from solid profits like that . Besides don’t the US companies over in China own less than 50% of those companies by law there?

    Charging up from the grid should be a major challenge. Simply increasing pricing on the energy we have now expecting to force supply and demand in that manner seems very trend breaking indeed. Maybe it would be hard to pay for all of that.
    Last edited by Trueturning; 02-22-2021 at 07:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    Besides doesn’t the US companies over in China own less than 50% of those companies by law there?
    No. There's many different types of company licenses. Some people choose to be a joint venture because they get tax breaks or some other advantage, but it isn't a requirement. If you register as a WOFE (wholly-owned foreign enterprise) then no, there's no Chinese partner.

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  7. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by JST View Post
    Yah.... 350 miles, then a 3 hour wait to get another 225, and a 3 hour wait to get another 225........ (or all 350 if you wait 10 hours) That sure as heck will be great traveling by car........
    Its not 3 hours, its more like 30-45 minutes. About the same amount of time it takes to eat lunch and use the can. It really adds very little time to most roadtrips. And conversely it saves you from the weekly gas stops. Unless you're road tripping once a month you're going to save way more time not having to go to the gas station weekly than you'll lose on a road trip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    No. There's many different types of company licenses. Some people choose to be a joint venture because they get tax breaks or some other advantage, but it isn't a requirement. If you register as a WOFE (wholly-owned foreign enterprise) then no, there's no Chinese partner.
    Helpful EG you can with a lot of help be a redeeming value if you only try. These issues discussed effect the business a lot. Nothing much ever proceeds effectively when people operate and live only in the extremes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Paper money has real value,
    You can burn it for home heating or making coffee.
    I offer you ten cents to every paper dollar and in real American coin for all the energy you can sell me Buck I will take all you got extra in the paper money.

  10. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Read The Wealth of Nations and get back to us on what currency represents.

    Bitcoin is simply a digital bullion without the freedom from speculation on the base.
    You only say that TR because you never bought a bunch early and held it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaguar36 View Post
    Its not 3 hours, its more like 30-45 minutes. About the same amount of time it takes to eat lunch and use the can. It really adds very little time to most roadtrips. And conversely it saves you from the weekly gas stops. Unless you're road tripping once a month you're going to save way more time not having to go to the gas station weekly than you'll lose on a road trip.

    That's ONLY with the top-of-the-line in the most expensive purchasable EV on the planet.

    AND it is ONLY if you can find a fast-charge that fits Tesla.

    As I said, good luck with that. I can fuel up in 5 min or under, and I eat lunch only once per day......

    Standardized exchangeable batteries..... almost the ONLY sensible and workable way to deal with the flaw in every EV ever made.

    The other, much more problematic solution is liquid electrolyte batteries, that would be "re-fueled" in a manner much like gas refilling (drained, then refilled).

    Why have an expensive car that, BY DESIGN is usable for only 35% or so of the time?

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  13. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by JST View Post
    That's ONLY with the top-of-the-line in the most expensive purchasable EV on the planet.

    AND it is ONLY if you can find a fast-charge that fits Tesla.

    As I said, good luck with that. I can fuel up in 5 min or under, and I eat lunch only once per day......

    Standardized exchangeable batteries..... almost the ONLY sensible and workable way to deal with the flaw in every EV ever made.
    Not at all, its true on the $45k Tesla Model 3 (Note that the average new car in the US now sells for is $40,573). Tesla's supercharger network is quite extensive and covers everywhere in the US now, and it shows on the nav screen exactly where they are and will route you through them if needed. I've done thousand mile roadtrips and its just never an issue. I always need to stop before the car does.

    Tesla originally designed the car for a swapable battery pack that only took a minute or two. They built a battery swap station that was fully automatic... and nobody used it. Owners realized that sueprcharging was more than sufficient and battery swapping was unnecessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    If we could just force petro gas up to $6.00 a gallon electric cars would look more favorable.
    And we could mandate that every family have a horse for when the grid is down.
    Oh, I forgot about the horse farts. We could just can the farts for home cooking fuel.
    It's worse than that. Back when horse-drawn wagons were used, large cities employed teams of street cleaners who removed tons of horse manure daily.

    EVs aren't for everybody, despite what the more ardent advocates would have us believe, and the situation becomes even more tilted in favor of fuel burning as you get into heavy equipment.

    PS: How would you like to be the proud owner of an EV in West Texas lately? Gasoline can be stored and transported, but when the grid goes down for an extended time most EV owners are well and truly F****d!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaguar36 View Post
    Its not 3 hours, its more like 30-45 minutes. About the same amount of time it takes to eat lunch and use the can. It really adds very little time to most roadtrips. And conversely it saves you from the weekly gas stops. Unless you're road tripping once a month you're going to save way more time not having to go to the gas station weekly than you'll lose on a road trip.
    You make it sound so easy but are ignoring the fact that most EV owners have a charging setup at home. ALL of the Tesla owners I know own their own homes and have a charger in the garage.

    You trivialize that 30-minute wait but ignore a few details such as that there is often a wait for the charger and 30 minutes can easily turn into an hour or more, tolerable for aficionados on a leisurely road trip but not very good for a commuter trying to make it to work on time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    You trivialize that 30-minute wait but ignore a few details such as that there is often a wait for the charger and 30 minutes can easily turn into an hour or more, tolerable for aficionados on a leisurely road trip but not very good for a commuter trying to make it to work on time.
    I trivialize it because it is trivial. I've got over 100k miles on Teslas and have never waited for a supercharger. In 7 years of driving one I've only ever waited for the car to charge one time. Every other time the car has been done charging before I've finished eating/pissing.

    Sure if you don't have charging at your house it becomes more complicated. But charging at apartments is starting to show up and there are lots of alternatives. In Philadelphia a few of the garages at grocery stores now have superchargers, and since you really only need to charge once a week if you have a normal commute, that's a workable solution. But if you own your own home, its a huge timesaver and so much more convenient than having to go to the gas station all the time.

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  20. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    You only say that TR because you never bought a bunch early and held it.
    No I say that because it is the plain truth.

    Bitcoin is digital bullion with the metrics of speculative price action.

    Would you "buy" here- that is place all of your wealth in this currency with any reasonable expectation that you will have not taken a great loss if the price collapses.



    It is a fad- to be a valid currency it needs to be a reliable store of wealth.

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    I know a lady who has an EV to drive to work about 25 miles away, she is very happy with that car.
    For long travel, she takes her husband's car or his pick-up.

  22. #156
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    Kind of like the guys who said you cannot make cars run on that gasoline
    Where are you going to buy that stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    No I say that because it is the plain truth.

    Bitcoin is digital bullion with the metrics of speculative price action.

    Would you "buy" here- that is place all of your wealth in this currency with any reasonable expectation that you will have not taken a great loss if the price collapses.



    It is a fad- to be a valid currency it needs to be a reliable store of wealth.
    If it keeps going like that in ten years you could buy the world...but with the other bit owners bidding only the top guy would win.

    And with some sugar and some yeast one might make beer out of dollars...so when push comes to shove and the world is smoldering you might go out with the last cold drink.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl
    PS: How would you like to be the proud owner of an EV in West Texas lately? Gasoline can be stored and transported, but when the grid goes down for an extended time most EV owners are well and truly F****d!
    With a grid down for an extended period, what are you using to get fuel out of the storage tanks? Suppose if you're a Nigerian fuel thief and accomplished at sucking the proverbial tennis ball through a garden hose, you might have some luck siphoning fuel from depth.

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    When I worked on a fourcourt in my teens, during the three day week caused by the miners' strike in the UK, I had to open the pumps and get the handle out. It was bloody hard work.

    Not sure if that works so well when the dials are electronic instead of mechanical...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BillE View Post
    With a grid down for an extended period, what are you using to get fuel out of the storage tanks? Suppose if you're a Nigerian fuel thief and accomplished at sucking the proverbial tennis ball through a garden hose, you might have some luck siphoning fuel from depth.
    Most of the pumps I have seen are pretty much standard water well submersible
    ones, 120 or 220 I don't know, but will run on a standard generator.


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