Government control of foodstuffs, can it happen here?? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciszewski View Post
    Hello Ries
    I hear you on that. Back in '03 when we found our first case of BSE the US border was closed to Canadian cattle & beef. All our markets shut down & the animals became worthless. Actually worse, they were a liability, as you still had to feed them. Canadian consumers supported beef producers by going to farms & buying sides & quartes direct from farmers. My freezer was full of beef. I ate it 7 days of the week for every meal just to get rid of the darn stuff. Experts said you could get CJD (desease that causes holes in the brain) from eating beef.

    hA, i La uGh, mY fiNe braIN GooD worK? iT hoLEs no gOT"
    We have a similar prion disease in our elk population here. You send in the head for testing when you harvest. Guidelines say to wear gloves and avoid nerve tissue.

  2. #22
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    I have tasted both Marmite and Vegemite.
    Not a big loss, in my mind, if the Dutch have to drive across a border to get it.

    But I am lucky enough to live in a farming area where everything but tropical fruits grow, and I can get raw milk, unpasteurized cheeses, chickens the day they were killed, and lots more real, fresh, unprocessed stuff.

    That is the main focus of our restrictions- and it does come from historical precedents- ever read "The Jungle" by Sinclair Lewis?

    Just like schools, the bigger a food processing plant gets, the worse job it does.
    I get my borderline illegal foods direct from the makers, and I know how much care they put into it.

    The Marmite thing seems to be more of a truth in advertising issue than a banning of a food for health reasons.
    We have quite a bit of that here, as well.
    Remember when Spirulina, or Acai, or some other food of the month was going to cure cancer, make you lose weight, and increase your lifespan to 150?
    There will be a new infomercial on tonight, with the latest product like that.

  3. #23
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    The reason that it was banned, is because when adding vitamin's or similar stuff to the food here in Denmark, it has to be approved. The only thing allowed for many years is iodine in salt. I honestly think it's a healthy principle. I do not like the artificially enhanced products, nor the GMO's. I'm no treehugger, but I think that is common sense to eat as naturally as possible. I do not like the thought of meat being filled with hormones or penicillin. Keep it natural..

    Just my 2 cents.

    Best regards
    Søren

  4. #24
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    Hello Slneilsen
    There is a withdrawal time from when medicine is given until animals can be slaughtered, giving the body time to get rid of the medicine.
    Hormones, there's more hormones in a serving of cabbage than a serving of beef from an implanted cattle. Give this a read.

    Can use of hormones & antibiotics in beef cause human problems?
    Concerns surrounding hormone-implanted beef not scientifically supported | bites
    While I'm at it.
    You don't sound like a tree hugger, but you do sound like PETA.
    You're telling me that I should not administer medication to a sick animal. If one of my cattle has foot rot (infection of the hoof), I should not give it a shot of penicillin which would clear it up in less than a week. I should let that animal be suffering for weeks or months on end, with the possibility that the whole hoof could become so infected that it could actually fall off. This animal would have to be shot & could not be eaten because of the massive infection. If one of my cattle develops pick eye ( an infection of the eyeball), I should not give it a shot of penicillin in the muscle in the neck & 1 cc in the eye lid, which would have that cleared up in less than a week with minimal scaring & vision loss. I should let that animal be a suffer for weeks or months on end until it becomes blind. This animal would have to be shot & could not be eaten because of the massive infection.
    Maybe you figure that that is natural, but around these parts, we call that animal abuse. Not only am I compelled by my morals, but also by law to do it. In Canada a person can be charged with neglect and abuse of animals with each charge carrying a maximum penalty of a $10,000 fine, six months in jail, or both, along with a possible lifetime ban of having care or control of any animals.
    Excuse me for being defensive, but I find myself having to defend my actions on a regular basis to people who don't seem to know too much about food production.
    It sure is easy to complain about food when your belly's full.
    Last edited by Ciszewski; 06-09-2011 at 11:09 AM. Reason: While I'm at it.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciszewski View Post
    Hello Slneilsen

    If one of my cattle develops pick eye ( an infection of the eyeball), I should not give it a shot of penicillin in the muscle in the neck & 1 cc in the eye lid, which would have that cleared up in less than a week with minimal scaring & vision loss. I should let that animal be a suffer for weeks or months on end until it becomes blind. This animal would have to be shot & could not be eaten because of the massive infection..
    my Granddad would just throw a handful of table salt in their eyes to cure it, seemed to work fine for him, we also still use pine tar on the pigs after we castrate them, no fancysmansy antibiotics or new fangled ways for us hill folk

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.A.M. View Post
    my Granddad would just throw a handful of table salt in their eyes to cure it, seemed to work fine for him, we also still use pine tar on the pigs after we castrate them, no fancysmansy antibiotics or new fangled ways for us hill folk
    Hello R.A.M.
    Have you every tried any of those two old fashioned remedies on yourself? Go ahead, I dare you, throw some salt in your eye or put some pine tar on your nut sack. Burns like heck. don't it? A little jab from a needle for a shot of penicillin only hurts for a few seconds. That's what the doc gave me for my VD. Cleared it up in no time.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciszewski View Post
    Hello Slneilsen
    There is a withdrawal time from when medicine is given until animals can be slaughtered, giving the body time to get rid of the medicine.
    Hormones, there's more hormones in a serving of cabbage than a serving of beef from an implanted cattle. Give this a read.

    Can use of hormones & antibiotics in beef cause human problems?
    Concerns surrounding hormone-implanted beef not scientifically supported | bites
    While I'm at it.
    You don't sound like a tree hugger, but you do sound like PETA.
    You're telling me that I should not administer medication to a sick animal. If one of my cattle has foot rot (infection of the hoof), I should not give it a shot of penicillin which would clear it up in less than a week. I should let that animal be suffering for weeks or months on end, with the possibility that the whole hoof could become so infected that it could actually fall off. This animal would have to be shot & could not be eaten because of the massive infection. If one of my cattle develops pick eye ( an infection of the eyeball), I should not give it a shot of penicillin in the muscle in the neck & 1 cc in the eye lid, which would have that cleared up in less than a week with minimal scaring & vision loss. I should let that animal be a suffer for weeks or months on end until it becomes blind. This animal would have to be shot & could not be eaten because of the massive infection.
    Maybe you figure that that is natural, but around these parts, we call that animal abuse. Not only am I compelled by my morals, but also by law to do it. In Canada a person can be charged with neglect and abuse of animals with each charge carrying a maximum penalty of a $10,000 fine, six months in jail, or both, along with a possible lifetime ban of having care or control of any animals.
    Excuse me for being defensive, but I find myself having to defend my actions on a regular basis to people who don't seem to know too much about food production.
    It sure is easy to complain about food when your belly's full.
    Let me put this straight..
    I live in the countryside surrounded by farms on all sides. I know the danish agriculture quite well. I'm not saying that you're not allowed to treat your sick animals, I sure don't want to see them suffer anymore than you do. But we have the worlds most intensive pigfarming here in Denmark. Old stuff, but still true : Denmark's pigs: Too many, too smelly | The Economist
    But when you add penicillin to the food of the pig, as a regular thing, we doing something that's not natural. I bet you wouldn't eat something like that daily yourself, I sure wouldn't. Otherwise one day, it might not be able to help us anymore.. Antibiotic resistance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Best regards
    Søren

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    The really silly thing to the regulation is that Marmite has had the same vitamins added to it for just under one hundred years.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciszewski View Post
    Hello R.A.M.
    Have you every tried any of those two old fashioned remedies on yourself? Go ahead, I dare you, throw some salt in your eye or put some pine tar on your nut sack. Burns like heck. don't it? A little jab from a needle for a shot of penicillin only hurts for a few seconds. That's what the doc gave me for my VD. Cleared it up in no time.
    well ciszewski, yes in fact those same remedies have been used upon me, table salt dissolved in water and poured in my eyes to cure the same pink eye that the cattle had, and pine tar make a wonderful and natural wound dressing as well, so no need to dare, as far as my nut sac is concerned, grandmothers cure for poison ivy beats out pine tar any day...household bleach.
    concerning your need for penicillin, im sure there are more appropriate forums than this to confess your beastiality tendencies
    Last edited by R.A.M.; 06-10-2011 at 10:57 AM. Reason: speeling

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    That is the main focus of our restrictions- and it does come from historical precedents- ever read "The Jungle" by Sinclair Lewis?
    It was Upton Sinclair, no? The book about the meat-packing workers that was supposed to encourage collectivization of workers, but ended up creating the Pure Foods Act instead?

    The 'allowable limits' for lots of things are simply the lower detection limit of the equipment used to test them.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalboy View Post
    It was Upton Sinclair, no? The book about the meat-packing workers that was supposed to encourage collectivization of workers, but ended up creating the Pure Foods Act instead?

    The 'allowable limits' for lots of things are simply the lower detection limit of the equipment used to test them.
    my bad.
    old brain doesnt work like it used to.
    just ask my wife- I am always wrong.

    But yes, its Upton Sinclair I was referring to, who wrote the book about the meat packing industry.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    my bad.
    old brain doesnt work like it used to.
    just ask my wife- I am always wrong.

    But yes, its Upton Sinclair I was referring to, who wrote the book about the meat packing industry.
    It's not a half-bad book. Preachy, though.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by metlmunchr View Post
    The FDA or USDA, whichever one controls peanut butter standards, has a max allowable amount for rat shit in peanut butter, and the max allowable ain't zero.
    If QC checks a batch and finds it has much less than the allowable amount.
    That's called extra virgin peanut butter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    PS- have you ever tasted Marmite? The stuff is FOUL. Its like spreading stale yeast mixed with rancid butter on your toast.
    An acquired taste, if ever there was one.
    No it's not, that's Vegemite

  15. #35
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    I recently had a single orange seized by a U.S. customs and border patrol agent when entering Maine from Canada . I had forgotten that oranges were forbidden and had one in the lunch I had packed before leaving home.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.A.M. View Post
    well ciszewski, yes in fact those same remedies have been used upon me, table salt dissolved in water and poured in my eyes to cure the same pink eye that the cattle had,
    Hello R.A.M.
    A far cry from your grandfather's method of "just throw a handful of table salt in their eyes".

  17. #37
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    "You're telling me that I should not administer medication to a sick animal."

    Um, No.

    That's NOT the issue here. He's saying, you should not be feeding healthy
    animals antibiotics in their regular feedstock. Cattle, pigs, poultry. That's
    what's done today. It fosters highly resistant bacteria strains.

    It's a bad idea and while it boosts profits for the cattle producers and poultry
    manufacturers, it has a net detrimental effect on the human population in general.

  18. Likes FranH, N2IXK, JoeE. liked this post
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    Personally i like marmite. Problem is the girlfriend detests it, won't come with in a thousand feet for at least a couple of hours!! If it ever gets banned, our relationship would become far more inescapable!!

    As to unpasteurised milk, have never had a chance to even see any let alone taste it :-)

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    Hello Slneilson
    I just read an interesting article about Dr. Scott Hurd, a veterinarian & associate professor at Iowa State University giving a speech at a University of Calgary veterinary school conference. In it he stated that after Denmark's 1994 ban of on-farm antibiotic use for disease prevention & growth promotion, drug use doubled to treat sick pigs. Seeing as how you are from Denmark & you know Danish agriculture quite quite well, who better for me to ask to confirm this as fact.
    http://www.producer.com/Search/Article.aspx?aid=36977

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    You really should read the links before you post them here. For example that
    link is quoted here, about the situation in denmark:

    "Drug use to treat sick pigs doubled in Denmark after the ban and has remained high, but total volume used was reduced."

    Translation: they are actually identifying and treating sick pigs now, which they did
    not have to before, because they were 'treating' all of them. The amount of
    antibiotics now used, according to your article, has decreased since the ban.

    And here's a howler:

    "Antimicrobials used for animal disease prevention and growth promotion are older types not generally used for human treatment."

    GEE I WONDER WHY.

    Could it possibly be, that the bacteria that cause illness in
    humans, is now RESISTANT to those antibiotics, since they've been routinely fed
    to animals in their feed for so many years?

    I guess there's a credibility problem, when a veternarian tries to put statistics on
    something like human problems that result from antibiotic resistance.

    "No link has been established between antimicrobial use in livestock and resistant bacteria affecting humans, so Hurd and other researchers have tried to analyze the risk."

    Basically the man is, um, "wrong." That's the term. Incorrect as far as most
    other journals can tell...:

    Antibiotic use in animal feed and its impact on hu... [Nutr Res Rev. 2000] - PubMed result

    Antibiotics In Animal Feed Encourage Emergence Of Superbugs – FDA Sued By Health And Consumer Organizations « CRISISBOOM

    Now this article specfically discusses the denmark study, and comes to the
    opposite conclusion from the one in previous posts....

    antibiotics in animal feed


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