Harley Davidson plant closing - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    That's a neat looking bike! What's the price tag on one?
    I was just checking those out after he posted about them. The website has some decked out with saddle bags, book racks and other goodies for around $7k

    They have two other models but the exhaust pipe looks like its setup for a Barbecue.

    I wonder is they ship to Asia.....

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    I really want to ride one of those Janus bikes... they look fun. I like fun bikes, can't actually ride anything over 250cc on the road anyways.

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    I hardly see a bike on the road any more........car drivers distracted by phones is becoming accepted here ,and any one rides a bike has horror stories of near misses.Incidentally,my first Harley was a WLA bought at the army auctions in 1967......grandfather rode a 28FD up until 1970......

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    As fun as it is to blame everything bad on the gov't, mis management is the larger issue
    Not in this case. They have been aware of the problem for a long time now but not much they can do about it - the group of people who like Harleys is getting old. Real old. Dying off old.

    They've been attempting to deal with this but it's not an easy problem. If you've been Cadillac for 100 years, convincing people that you are now Alfa-Romeo is not that simple.

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    Those Janus bikes are cool looking, would be nice to take a spin on one.
    I got on there mailing list, been following them for a couple years.
    They almost would look good parked in the family room, eh?
    Gw

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    Harley expanded massively as the market took off....makes sense that they should contract as bike sales fall....i wonder if driverless share motorcycles are in the future.?.....I think I might be too nervous to try one out............anyhoo ,as long as i can kick over a 59 Duoglide,I wont need to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Not in this case. They have been aware of the problem for a long time now but not much they can do about it - the group of people who like Harleys is getting old. Real old. Dying off old.

    They've been attempting to deal with this but it's not an easy problem. If you've been Cadillac for 100 years, convincing people that you are now Alfa-Romeo is not that simple.
    there are two parallel conversations going on here, I am not saying HD is particularly mis managed. You are correct on age of riders

    I have often wondered what happened to all the motorcycle riders. 70's-80's lots of people rode a bike as basic transpo.

  8. #28
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    Harley Davidson plant closing
    Say it isn't the T shirt plant!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by jhruska View Post
    Nope......
    Taxes, real estate, inventory, machinery and facilities. State and local taxes milking the cash cow.
    keep going, that's only a partial list. For anyone who's tried to run a manufacturing business here (canada, US is probably a bit better), there's really just one big question that haunts you daily, WHY am I doing this and WHY HERE?! If you haven't been in those shoes, you won't get it. Life would be so much easier and I'd make more money if I got back to a an office grind.

    Business goes where its wanted and appreciated and that's not Canada. I'm in too far now, but if I could have a meeting with my former self , I would I fight very hard to convince the thick skulled numskull to stay in professional services and NOT to have invested in manufacturing in a country that doesn't want it.

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  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    .................
    How's your Polaroid stock doing? How about stock in a slide rule company or maybe radio tube manufacturing.

    Bill
    Still have my K&E slide rule around here somewhere. Bet it still works!

    As far as Harley goes, last time I checked USA motorcycle sales peaked around 2006-2007 (remember all those motorcycle builder shows?) and has only climbed back to about half of those levels.

    Steve

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    I bought my HD in 1996.

    I thought that they put too much emphasis on "Motorclothes", that's about all the advertising focused on. Turned me right off.

    "You need these overpriced leather boots with the little H/D bracelet riveted to the heel, the bandanna, the leather this and that... the ignorant ass "doo-rag"...fingerless gloves and requisite H/D black T shirt.. .the whole schmear. Me? I ride around in shorts and a T-shirt, and tennis shoes. I'm not no rebel, and neither are they. They need to get over themselves.

    I've still got the thing, but I ride around on a 2001 Honda Reflex...a water cooled, single cylinder 250cc scooter. That thing is more fun to ride than that hog, gets 70mpg, is easy to maneuver around and is able to carry two people at highway speeds, if I wanted to.

    The best thing is to be going down the road one day, riding the H/D... other "bikers" will wave their little "I'm cool, down below the handlebars wave"... which I don't return in kind~ I wave up in the air like normal.

    The next day, ride that scooter.. they won't even wave, so I make a big production out of waving at them . I have a good laugh while they continue on down the road, smug in their feelings of superiority !

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  13. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE. View Post
    The next day, ride that scooter.. they won't even wave, so I make a big production out of waving at them . I have a good laugh while they continue on down the road, smug in their feelings of superiority !

    that visual is just hilarious

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    Say it isn't the T shirt plant!!!




    keep going, that's only a partial list. For anyone who's tried to run a manufacturing business here (canada, US is probably a bit better), there's really just one big question that haunts you daily, WHY am I doing this and WHY HERE?! If you haven't been in those shoes, you won't get it. Life would be so much easier and I'd make more money if I got back to a an office grind.

    Business goes where its wanted and appreciated and that's not Canada. I'm in too far now, but if I could have a meeting with my former self , I would I fight very hard to convince the thick skulled numskull to stay in professional services and NOT to have invested in manufacturing in a country that doesn't want it.
    what a load


    you pay taxes to support the country you live in

    China stomps on their people, pays them nothing, and hopes they die young before they cost money

    If you cannot run a business, look in the mirror

    I have been at it in one of the highest tax states in the country, for the best part of 30 years, have had nearly zero interaction with the gov't and the only reason I do not make more money is my own personal decision making

    funny how all these faux conservatives preach personal responsibility for everyone but themselves

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhruska View Post
    Nope......
    Taxes, real estate, inventory, machinery and facilities. State and local taxes milking the cash cow.

    This is a tired, and erroneous, meme.
    We have MORE capacity to make steel now than during WW2. Steel making in the USA peaked in the late 60s, at approximately 140 million tons/year. Currently, we would have no problem making 100 million tons- ie- the entire US consumption of steel.

    There have been quite a few brand spanking new state of the art steel mills built lately in the USA- in the last 20 years, probably at least 20-30 of em, with an investment of at least 25 Billion on new mills.
    its true that, beyond Nucor, which makes about a third of US steel, most of the new mills have been paid for by foreign steelmakers- but they pay the same taxes, real estate prices, labor costs, and buy new machinery, just like an american steel company would.

    Steel HAS modernized in the USA. But it doesnt make economic sense to export steel from here- in that, you are correct, US costs are marginally higher than other big steelmaking countries like Brazil or Turkey. Very little of the cost of making steel is in labor these days, its mostly materials and fuel. New mills are being built that are powered by electricity and natural gas.

  17. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    what a load


    you pay taxes to support the country you live in

    China stomps on their people, pays them nothing, and hopes they die young before they cost money

    If you cannot run a business, look in the mirror

    I have been at it in one of the highest tax states in the country, for the best part of 30 years, have had nearly zero interaction with the gov't and the only reason I do not make more money is my own personal decision making

    funny how all these faux conservatives preach personal responsibility for everyone but themselves
    tell us about what a roaring success your business is. The issue is not really taxes. Attitudes like yours are a big part of the problem - ignorantly assume assume assume rather than discuss and ask. Sorry, but you are a waste of my time.

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    Harley told us last year they were doing this, because of retaliatory taxes in Europe, a big market of theirs.
    Read all about it- https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ounter-tariffs

    Cause, meet Effect.

    Harley has, for years now, also made motorcycles in Thailand, India and Brazil. None of which have the tariffs applied.
    To compete in wealthy countries, if their bikes can avoid the taxes and tariffs, they sell more. Hence, they make them outside the US, in countries that are not involved in pissing matches with the EU.

    Also- the US motorcycle market is "mature", that means mostly old people buy Harleys, and they are dying off.
    Sales are increasing in other countries, and Harley would be fools not to try to sell where there is a market for their product.
    Currently 43% of Harleys are sold outside the USA- and they are wanting to increase that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    ...Harley has, for years now, also made motorcycles in Thailand, India and Brazil. None of which have the tariffs applied.
    I don't know about Brazil or Thailand, but Harley built the plant in India to avoid their 100% tariff on motorcycles.

    Indian Customs Duty | Import Duty India of HS Code 8711 | MOTORCYCLES (INCLUDING MOPEDS) AND CYCLES FITTED WITH AN AUXILIARY MOTOR, WITH OR WITHOUT SIDE-CARS;

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    I've ridden motorcycles all my life, never owned a Harley, because they never made what I wanted. I think Harley painted itself into a corner by making nothing but cruisers, that is just a small percentage of the overall market. Twice in my life I thought about getting one, twice I took test rides, and twice I walked away thinking "what a slow, vibrating, poor handling bike". Yeah, I ride a rice burner, its fast, nimble and stops on a dime, and only has 2 cylinders so it does not sound like a blender.

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  23. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE. View Post
    I bought my HD in 1996.

    I thought that they put too much emphasis on "Motorclothes", that's about all the advertising focused on. Turned me right off.

    "You need these overpriced leather boots with the little H/D bracelet riveted to the heel, the bandanna, the leather this and that... the ignorant ass "doo-rag"...fingerless gloves and requisite H/D black T shirt.. .the whole schmear. Me? I ride around in shorts and a T-shirt, and tennis shoes. I'm not no rebel, and neither are they. They need to get over themselves.

    I've still got the thing, but I ride around on a 2001 Honda Reflex...a water cooled, single cylinder 250cc scooter. That thing is more fun to ride than that hog, gets 70mpg, is easy to maneuver around and is able to carry two people at highway speeds, if I wanted to.

    The best thing is to be going down the road one day, riding the H/D... other "bikers" will wave their little "I'm cool, down below the handlebars wave"... which I don't return in kind~ I wave up in the air like normal.

    The next day, ride that scooter.. they won't even wave, so I make a big production out of waving at them . I have a good laugh while they continue on down the road, smug in their feelings of superiority !
    Heh. Guys have finished the Iron Butt Ralley on a honda helix. I myself am obsessing over a Ruckus. If I had room in th stable I would consider it.

    Motorbike waves are pretty egalitarian. I've seen harley drivers wave to vepas. I do know for a fact that after summer the only bikes out there are

    1) gold wings
    2) bmws
    3) harleys

    in no particular order.

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  25. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    I don't know about Brazil or Thailand, but Harley built the plant in India to avoid their 100% tariff on motorcycles.

    Indian Customs Duty | Import Duty India of HS Code 8711 | MOTORCYCLES (INCLUDING MOPEDS) AND CYCLES FITTED WITH AN AUXILIARY MOTOR, WITH OR WITHOUT SIDE-CARS;

    I was referring to the EU taxes and tariffs- but what you are saying is what I am saying- which is-
    Harley will build motorcycles in places where they can send them to their growing active markets with paying taxes and tariffs if they can avoid it.
    That means NOT in the USA, because we are fighting with many countries right now by raising tariffs, and getting tariffs raised in return.

    Harley told us a year ago- if we, the USA, continue to get into trade wars, we, Harley, will move production to countries where we can avoid those taxes and tariffs.
    And, then, Surprise Surprise, as Gomer used to say, they did it.

    And they will continue to do it.
    If they make motorcycles in India, they avoid Indian taxes, and can export from there, to countries that enact taxes and tariffs on US made bikes, but not on Indian made ones.
    Same thing with Harleys made in Brazil, Thailand, and, potentially, Eastern Europe.

    Capitalism isnt the same thing as Nationalism.
    Money doesnt care.

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    [QUOTE=Ries;3364507]... we are fighting with many countries right now by raising tariffs, and getting tariffs raised in return.

    Are we tired of winning yet.

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