Healthcare - American style - Page 3
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 3 of 17 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 330
  1. #41
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    WAPELLO, IA USA
    Posts
    6,425
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    29
    Likes (Received)
    1816

    Default

    until an honest evaluation of where the money is going is done nothing good will come of it. I don't care whose law or whose plan, until I see a bar graph of where the money goes for every million spent on " healthcare" its a finger pointing game where everybody is pointing across the circle as to where the money went. I have no issues with healthcare making a decent living, but my personal opinion there are way too many parasites driving up the cost but I can't prove that.

  2. Likes Scottl, dcsipo, MichaelP liked this post
  3. #42
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Peoples Republic of Minnesota
    Posts
    2,053
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3246
    Likes (Received)
    2503

    Default

    Didn't read the whole thread....not interested in the bitch-fest or opinion of people with out a stake in this game, or an understanding of the social dynamic in the U.S.
    I will however point out that being gainfully employed, paying my portion of the premium on my medical policy meant that 2 months ago when I needed heart surgery I was able to be treated by a hospital rated #1 to #3 in the world (depending on the survey). A hospital that leaders around the world come to when they need medical attention. I was able to schedule my surgery at MY convenience...on MY terms and after insurance paid their part I had to pay $1,150. Pretty good deal for me. I didn't need to wait 18 months....I didn't get placed in line behind someone who's Mom works for the "government medical establishment" No beaurocrat made the decisions for me.
    Moral of the story.....In America it is a good idea to get some training and become gainfully employed. Doing so = a better outcome in every aspect. If this is news to you....then you got screwed by the people in your life who should have been looking out for you and teaching you.
    My 2 cents

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    1,207
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    52
    Likes (Received)
    357

    Default

    Every speech and every argument made against single payer national health insurance is just an exact copy of the speeches and arguments made against Social Security and against Medicare. Try it! Take a speech made years ago against Social Security or Medicare and replace the word "Social Security" or "Medicare" with the word "Single Payer National Health Care" and you have a complete match.
    Read here:Remember When Republicans Said Social Security And Medicare Would Destroy Freedom Too? – Talking Points Memo

    Deja Vu: A Look Back at Some of the Tirades Against Social Security and Medicare | BillMoyers.com

    Could you see any candidate of either party running today on repeal and replace Social Security or Medicare?
    Let's see some hands come up in favor.

  5. Likes JoeE. liked this post
  6. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    762
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    635
    Likes (Received)
    474

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    That's what I have been saying all along. We take a symptom, high costs, and immediately assign blame to "greedy insurers" without a proper diagnosis and then issue a prescription (usually single payer).

    Until and unless we take the time for a proper diagnosis we are clutching at straws, and likely to cause the patient (the public) even more harm. What we really need is to look at all sources of rising costs and whether they are justified or not. Some may be fully justified by improved patient outcomes, some may be unjustified and caused by greed, and yet others may be understandable reactions to actions of other parties. IMO if the entire system were subjected to a full and honest post mortem we would find some blame attributable to "all of the above".
    We already know what the "sources" of rising healthcare costs are.

    First, insurance companies charge too much for policies that pay-out too little. Insurance companies are in business to make a profit. Nothing wrong with that except that insurers are not thinking about your well being. Their priorities are profits and shareholders. They will do as little as they possibly can for patients and maximise profits.

    Second, a big percentage of our premium dollars go to pay for marketing, advertising and administrative expenses of the insurer. With single-payer, we pay zero for insurance companies profits and other expense like sales commissions, TV advertisements, websites and the like. This represents a huge cost savings.

    It's true that there would be administrative expenses under a single-payer system, but the government --as much as this rankles the right -- is simply more efficient than the private market. Don't take my word for this, Google the stats for administrative expenses -- Medicare vs. The private market. You will find that this is true.

    With this said it is not the insurance companies that are the biggest problem. Rather it is pharmaceutical companies and the huge prices they charge. They have been raping U.S. consumers for decades.

    I've used an illustration several times here on PM, the points-up the problems with Big Pharma. A 30-day prescription of the popular drug Lipitor costs $157 at the Walgreens store in Tahlequah Oklahoma. India has chosen not to recognize drug companies patents and they have negotiated a lower price for the same drug. Their citizens pay $4 for the same 30 day supply. We can enjoy the same kinds of pricing under single-payer. Big Pharma will be happy to collect their $4 rather than run the risk of losing the American market. An unthinkable prospect for both parties.

    If you want to know how much single-payer will cost as opposed to sticking with the private Market I've already posted that information above. Single Payer would yield a cost Savings of about 17 trillion dollars over 10 years time. If you check you will find that it's not the cost of single-payer that many GOP leaders find objectionable. Rather it's just that they don't want government involved in healthcare. This despite the fact that it is been demonstrated that government is more efficient. It's also a fact that Americans like government Healthcare. Medicare and Medicaid are both popular programs. Even the Affordable Care Act is better like than many would lead us to believe.

    There are other factors that can contribute to an unnecessarily high cost for healthcare. I won't belabor the point here rather I'll just stop and say we already know where the big problems lie. We don't have to do a top-to-bottom analysis to know that we would save huge amounts of money under single-payer.

    Squire



    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, Tahlequah OK

  7. Likes JoeE. liked this post
  8. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    marysville ohio
    Posts
    8,699
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2460
    Likes (Received)
    5552

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toolsteel View Post
    Didn't read the whole thread....not interested in the bitch-fest or opinion of people with out a stake in this game, or an understanding of the social dynamic in the U.S.
    I will however point out that being gainfully employed, paying my portion of the premium on my medical policy meant that 2 months ago when I needed heart surgery I was able to be treated by a hospital rated #1 to #3 in the world (depending on the survey). A hospital that leaders around the world come to when they need medical attention. I was able to schedule my surgery at MY convenience...on MY terms and after insurance paid their part I had to pay $1,150. Pretty good deal for me. I didn't need to wait 18 months....I didn't get placed in line behind someone who's Mom works for the "government medical establishment" No beaurocrat made the decisions for me.
    Moral of the story.....In America it is a good idea to get some training and become gainfully employed. Doing so = a better outcome in every aspect. If this is news to you....then you got screwed by the people in your life who should have been looking out for you and teaching you.
    My 2 cents
    toolsteel, I read your post, 40 years in the trade now, but not "gainfully employed", I have my own shop, why can't I buy a policy that would cover me in a catastrophe? I used to pay about 250.00/mo for a policy with a 6000.00 deductible. I liked it, it was good. Since we have the UACA now they want 950.00 / mo. with a 16,500.00 deductible. I think a high deductible policy is good, I don't run to the doctor every time I sneeze, for a check up or whatever I don't mind a little out of pocket. Your car insurance does not pay for oil changes does it?I wish the gov. would get out of the whole deal.

  9. #46
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    87
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    86
    Likes (Received)
    35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    I wish the gov. would get out of the whole deal.
    Until this happens, healthcare will be shit.

  10. Likes eaglemike, moonlight machine liked this post
  11. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Peoples Republic of Minnesota
    Posts
    2,053
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3246
    Likes (Received)
    2503

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toolsteel View Post
    Didn't read the whole thread....not interested in the bitch-fest or opinion of people with out a stake in this game, or an understanding of the social dynamic in the U.S.
    I will however point out that being gainfully employed, paying my portion of the premium on my medical policy meant that 2 months ago when I needed heart surgery I was able to be treated by a hospital rated #1 to #3 in the world (depending on the survey). A hospital that leaders around the world come to when they need medical attention. I was able to schedule my surgery at MY convenience...on MY terms and after insurance paid their part I had to pay $1,150. Pretty good deal for me. I didn't need to wait 18 months....I didn't get placed in line behind someone who's Mom works for the "government medical establishment" No beaurocrat made the decisions for me.
    Moral of the story.....In America it is a good idea to get some training and become gainfully employed. Doing so = a better outcome in every aspect. If this is news to you....then you got screwed by the people in your life who should have been looking out for you and teaching you.
    My 2 cents
    I probably should have added....the system is far from perfect....but I would rather see real reforms to the current system rather than scrapping it and going to a nanny- state system.

  12. Likes JoeE. liked this post
  13. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Peoples Republic of Minnesota
    Posts
    2,053
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3246
    Likes (Received)
    2503

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    toolsteel, I read your post, 40 years in the trade now, but not "gainfully employed", I have my own shop, why can't I buy a policy that would cover me in a catastrophe? I used to pay about 250.00/mo for a policy with a 6000.00 deductible. I liked it, it was good. Since we have the UACA now they want 950.00 / mo. with a 16,500.00 deductible. I think a high deductible policy is good, I don't run to the doctor every time I sneeze, for a check up or whatever I don't mind a little out of pocket. Your car insurance does not pay for oil changes does it?I wish the gov. would get out of the whole deal.
    I agree.....you should be able to have a high deductible policy if that is what you feel fits better for you and your family.
    I guess I sort of forgot about the small business guys....I didn't mean to imply anything negative there...Anyone who has ever worked for a small business or even did some independent contracting knows how hard it is to make ends meet. I think some attitudes would change if people ( I have in the past) got paid on a 1099.....pay "self employment" tax a time or 2, that gets the blood pumping lol

  14. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    marysville ohio
    Posts
    8,699
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2460
    Likes (Received)
    5552

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toolsteel View Post
    I agree.....you should be able to have a high deductible policy if that is what you feel fits better for you and your family.
    I guess I sort of forgot about the small business guys....I didn't mean to imply anything negative there...Anyone who has ever worked for a small business or even did some independent contracting knows how hard it is to make ends meet. I think some attitudes would change if people ( I have in the past) got paid on a 1099.....pay "self employment" tax a time or 2, that gets the blood pumping lol
    Don't get me going on tax, so unfair to the one man band. I work myself into an early grave for what? Give it to the gov to subsidize somebody on obamacare, meanwhile I make too much for a subsidy myself, What a crock of shit! What am I whining about? I would not take it if they were going to give it to me.

  15. Likes Scottl, Alloy Mcgraw, Oldwrench liked this post
  16. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    1,207
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    52
    Likes (Received)
    357

    Default

    toolsteel, I read your post, 40 years in the trade now, but not "gainfully employed", I have my own shop, why can't I buy a policy that would cover me in a catastrophe? I used to pay about 250.00/mo for a policy with a 6000.00 deductible. I liked it, it was good. Since we have the UACA now they want 950.00 / mo. with a 16,500.00 deductible. I think a high deductible policy is good, I don't run to the doctor every time I sneeze, for a check up or whatever I don't mind a little out of pocket. Your car insurance does not pay for oil changes does it?I wish the gov. would get out of the whole deal.

    So you like a policy for $250.00 a month and a $6000.00 deductible? You don't run to the hospital for every sneeze? That is recommendable. Have you checked how much a hospital charges for one day? Not counting ER. Your insurance company would be broke within one month. Because sooner or later, you or a member of your family will get sick (I hope not) and require days or even weeks in a hospital. As you get older the possibility of going to a hospital increases not even thinking about having a catastrophic accident. Your deductible will be used up in just a few hours. I hope you have many millions in your savings account. If not - what then? I wish you good health and good luck.

  17. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    1,207
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    52
    Likes (Received)
    357

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by juergenwt View Post
    toolsteel, I read your post, 40 years in the trade now, but not "gainfully employed", I have my own shop, why can't I buy a policy that would cover me in a catastrophe? I used to pay about 250.00/mo for a policy with a 6000.00 deductible. I liked it, it was good. Since we have the UACA now they want 950.00 / mo. with a 16,500.00 deductible. I think a high deductible policy is good, I don't run to the doctor every time I sneeze, for a check up or whatever I don't mind a little out of pocket. Your car insurance does not pay for oil changes does it?I wish the gov. would get out of the whole deal..
    So you like a policy for $250.00 a month and a $6000.00 deductible? You don't run to the hospital for every sneeze? That is recommendable. Have you checked how much a hospital charges for one day? Not counting ER. Your insurance company would be broke within one month. Because sooner or later, you or a member of your family will get sick (I hope not) and require days or even weeks in a hospital. As you get older the possibility of going to a hospital increases not even thinking about having a catastrophic accident. Your deductible would be used up in just a few hours. I hope you have many millions in your savings account. If not - what then? I wish you good health and good luck.

    If everybody could just take out the kind of policy he thinks he will ever need, than the young people who of course never get sick or old or in an accident would buy a $5.00 policy with a $ 100 000.00 deductible (if such a thing would be available). The rest of the bill for an accident costing hundreds of thousands of dollars would have to be paid by the insurance company. They are smarter than that. Good luck to the hospital trying to collect the deductible.
    In a single payer National Health Service System everybody working would be paying his share - just like Social Security or Medicare. It would not be cheap. There would still be private insurance companies available for you to buy a policy. Then you do not pay into the NHS.
    Last edited by juergenwt; 07-07-2017 at 02:42 PM. Reason: luck to the hospital on getting the first $100 000.00

  18. #52
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    marysville ohio
    Posts
    8,699
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2460
    Likes (Received)
    5552

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by juergenwt View Post
    toolsteel, I read your post, 40 years in the trade now, but not "gainfully employed", I have my own shop, why can't I buy a policy that would cover me in a catastrophe? I used to pay about 250.00/mo for a policy with a 6000.00 deductible. I liked it, it was good. Since we have the UACA now they want 950.00 / mo. with a 16,500.00 deductible. I think a high deductible policy is good, I don't run to the doctor every time I sneeze, for a check up or whatever I don't mind a little out of pocket. Your car insurance does not pay for oil changes does it?I wish the gov. would get out of the whole deal.

    So you like a policy for $250.00 a month and a $6000.00 deductible? You don't run to the hospital for every sneeze? That is recommendable. Have you checked how much a hospital charges for one day? Not counting ER. Your insurance company would be broke within one month. Because sooner or later, you or a member of your family will get sick (I hope not) and require days or even weeks in a hospital. As you get older the possibility of going to a hospital increases not even thinking about having a catastrophic accident. Your deductible will be used up in just a few hours. I hope you have many millions in your savings account. If not - what then? I wish you good health and good luck.
    Do you have a clue? Deductible = I pay the first 6000.00 claimed in a year. My policy had a 5 million max payout. Why would the ins co be broke in a month? Manny thousands of people pay for ins. That is what insurance does, spreads the risk.

  19. #53
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,045
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    206
    Likes (Received)
    782

    Default

    I'm with you moonlight- I can self-insure a broken wrist. If I have to get a new a Mitral Valve I'm going to need some help.

    Give me a reasonably priced catastrophic policy and a tax-preferred medical savings account so I can set aside money for out of pocket expenses.

  20. #54
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    385
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    370

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    I'm with you moonlight- I can self-insure a broken wrist. If I have to get a new a Mitral Valve I'm going to need some help.

    Give me a reasonably priced catastrophic policy and a tax-preferred medical savings account so I can set aside money for out of pocket expenses.
    What's your definition of a reasonably priced catastrophic policy?

  21. #55
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,045
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    206
    Likes (Received)
    782

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    What's your definition of a reasonably priced catastrophic policy?
    One that I can afford.

    My pre-Obamacare policy was $325 per month per person, 80/20 plan, 2500 deductible, $25 co-pay.

    Those were the good old days before the democrats decided to "fix" health care. Now I pay twice that for half the coverage from an HMO that doesn't even answer the phone.

  22. Likes Scottl liked this post
  23. #56
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    1,145
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    322
    Likes (Received)
    364

    Default

    We had the catastrophic policy for the family and pretty much paid out of pocket for everything...it worked for us.

    The other benefit was that everything we paid for was negotiated down to the insurance rate anyway...even though they didn't pay, we had their insurance, and it worked.

    (like many others the plan was canceled and they wanted to put us in a high deductible high premium, no subsidy for you plan...)

    Screw that. We did temporary health insurance for a time ( look it up...they changed the rules on that too).

    Now we're with Liberty Health Share. These places are growing like wildfire. They're probably going to put the stop to them, who knows, but it's a loophole and no penalty.

  24. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    385
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    370

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    One that I can afford.

    My pre-Obamacare policy was $325 per month per person, 80/20 plan, 2500 deductible, $25 co-pay.
    I can't remember the last time we had a deductible as low as $2500. I would have categorized catastrophic as over $10,000 deductible.

    Those were the good old days before the democrats decided to "fix" health care. Now I pay twice that for half the coverage from an HMO that doesn't even answer the phone.
    Unfortunately, rates were increasing before ObamaCare, during ObamaCare, and they will continue to increase under a Republican plan (if they pass one.) Eventually the system will break, and it won't be pretty.

  25. Likes Bobw, JoeE. liked this post
  26. #58
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,045
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    206
    Likes (Received)
    782

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    I can't remember the last time we had a deductible as low as $2500. I would have categorized catastrophic as over $10,000 deductible.
    I wasn't calling that policy a catastrophic policy. It was great.

    If I could get a catastrophic policy today for that price, I would buy it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    Unfortunately, rates were increasing before ObamaCare, during ObamaCare, and they will continue to increase under a Republican plan (if they pass one.) Eventually the system will break, and it won't be pretty.
    My rate increases were very modest- in the nature of $7-10 per month increase in the prior years. So it went from around $290 when I first started to something like $327 by the fifth year.

  27. #59
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    385
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    370

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    I wasn't calling that policy a catastrophic policy. It was great.

    If I could get a catastrophic policy today for that price, I would buy it.
    Okay, I misunderstood your post. What do you consider to be a catastrophic policy?

  28. #60
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,045
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    206
    Likes (Received)
    782

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    Okay, I misunderstood your post. What do you consider to be a catastrophic policy?
    An unsubsidized Obamacare plan. Bronze anyway. You can get coverage like I used to have, but it's 4 or 5 times as expensive.

    What I have now is almost there, at $6000 deductible. I would trade 4K more deductible for $200/month premium decrease. I can't afford to use it anyway.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •