How do you think the $15 Federal minimum wage increase will affect manufacturing? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Getting anyone to do anything for US$15/A$20 hr is a boyhood dream round here .....I offer $40 in hand ,and they cant even be bothered to turn up day after they tell me how desperate for money they are.One guy turned up at 9am ,after telling me in a very loud voice how he always started at 6am......We agreed on $40 /hr cash /no tax,and at midday someone came round and told him his girlfriend needed to go to the doctor.....I said OK ,thats 2 1/2 hr (being generous)..$100.....and hes ,what? only $100 ?for a days pay?.....but he hadnt worked all day....havent seem him or his friend again.....and the front fence is still falling down.

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    I remember when I and later neighborhood boys would come to shovel snow... the last boy that came by about 10 years ago wanted $20 fo 2" of fluffy snow. Ten minutes work for $20.

    Nowadays no boys come by to shovel snow even though they could make $100 for a short day's work just charging 10 bucks.

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    This is going to screw up the people living on government assistance, if they make too much money they lose out on free things they get.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Getting anyone to do anything for US$15/A$20 hr is a boyhood dream round here .....I offer $40 in hand ,and they cant even be bothered to turn up day after they tell me how desperate for money they are.One guy turned up at 9am ,after telling me in a very loud voice how he always started at 6am......We agreed on $40 /hr cash /no tax,and at midday someone came round and told him his girlfriend needed to go to the doctor.....I said OK ,thats 2 1/2 hr (being generous)..$100.....and hes ,what? only $100 ?for a days pay?.....but he hadnt worked all day....havent seem him or his friend again.....and the front fence is still falling down.
    You want "reliable" around the "National Capitol area"' main thing you need is native fluency in "Central" America's dialects of idiomatic Spanish.

    One Paki neighbour, retired USPS. One Austrian saved from a death train by the SS officer she married and came to the US with, getting up in years. One newly-arrived Viet boat-person with a successful HVAC biz. One family from the Punjab.

    All else Salvadorean, save for one Mexican 13 years married TO a Salvadorean. Solid married couple, both kinda large refrigerator shaped and sized, "gay" some call it? But they seem more serious than lighthearted? What would I know?

    And every ONE of them having gone through long and tedious process to become LEGAL immigrants, and work TWO jobs not just the one, too.

    Reliable enough. But minimum wage is in THEIR rear-view mirrors by easily half a lifetime.

    Reliable gets paid well. They are au fait with that. They actually know WHY they are HERE!

    Some of our "home-grown" krew?

    Only time the whole DAY they know exactly what they are about MIGHT be whilst taking a complication-free s**t.

    Unless their fool cellphone rings during the exercise, of course.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mebfab View Post
    Why do all these people in the middle class get hooked on heroin? No future. No way to get ahead so give up.
    Middle-class heroin addicts didn't become addicted because they were hopeless. They became hopeless because they were addicted.

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    Minimum wage increases is the government's way to tell us they're increasing our cost of living by devaluing the currency, over taxation and over regulation, but someone else should pay for it.

    Also helps them keep the flames of hatred toward all the "rich" employers who aren't giving you "their fair share", while the government robs us all.
    Democratic Socialism strives on an ever growing welfare state and misery.
    But if government interference screwed it all up, surely more government interference will fix it...

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    If your business model can't survive paying someone $15/hour in 2021, then maybe your business model is shit, or your product is. No sympathy here.

    Rural Missouri, here, I'm seeing lots of factory jobs offering 18-20$ / hr to start with fairly good benefits. Cost of living out here is pretty damn low, compared to the rest of the nation. I imagine $15/hr ain't shit in the coastal zones.

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    I understand it will benefit 1.7 million workers. It will cost 1.3 million their jobs. Those of us on social security will be screwed as the cost of living takes a big jump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Illinoyance View Post
    I understand it will benefit 1.7 million workers. It will cost 1.3 million their jobs. ....
    Explain this, people lose jobs? Who does the work needed day in and out? Is it robots?
    Going to just cut staff if product still needed to customer?
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    How about we lower it.

    I always thought I would buy an island somewhere filled with dirt poor folks and set up a factory making knock off bluejeans.
    Not slaves mind you but pay- as little as I could get away with which I figure would be damn low.

    And I'd be making a killing- selling my crap product into markets where folks can afford to buy them.

    And where is that- its places where the entire society has an advanced enough technical and manufacturing base that they are not the lowest possible bidder in the global market.
    They are producing better goods and services and really don't have the manpower to make crap products.
    Everyone is making more money and every outfit in those country is stronger and more diverse due to having a captive market which is more skilled, better educated and more affluent so they can participate in the economy to a greater degree.
    They are buyers in the global market and understandably carry a trade deficit which confuses some of the dimmer folks.

    Thats where I live.
    But my factory- I want it where folks are dirt poor and stay that way.
    IIRC there was a documentary on PBS about 10 years ago showing how a shirt is made.
    40' containers worked their way down the chinese coast, stopping at ports to have process's
    done by the lowest cost bidders. Pull the shirts out, sew on a button, put them back into a waiting container, off to another port for the pockets, etc.
    The part of the show, with the purchasing agent describing in great detail, how and where the hungry-est workers were, was priceless.

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    The inflation that will dilute the purchasing power of your pension happened the moment a $ trillion was fed into the financial system to avoid a covid market crash......House prices have been on an accelerated upward spiral ever since.....house prices+/rents+/cost of living+/wage demand +/ all means inflation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    IIRC there was a documentary on PBS about 10 years ago showing how a shirt is made.
    40' containers worked their way down the chinese coast, stopping at ports to have process's
    done by the lowest cost bidders. Pull the shirts out, sew on a button, put them back into a waiting container, off to another port for the pockets, etc.
    The part of the show, with the purchasing agent describing in great detail, how and where the hungry-est workers were, was priceless.
    Since you brought up SHIRTS.. there is a rip-off, if ever was. Around the time I was at WVU - early 1960's - there was still a US-made shirt factory in the County. YEARS later, as an executive, I bought US-made shirts from two OTHER makers. I got MY size exactly in far better fabric and workmanship for LESS money than the over-priced plastic-display-packaged "designer labels" that weren't even made in PRC. Pakistan or Bangladesh, mostly.

    Actually, a good Oxford-cloth dress shirt, two-position cuffs (wristwatch thing) three-button collar (no ironing thing) and a pocket, cost less than same-era brand-conscious damned fools were paying for a "designer" Mike-Foxtrot featureless "TEE SHIRT" with near-zero human labour in it at ALL!

    MASSIVE markups in the fool things for our US markets vs what they sell for in their own home countries, China, Africa, India.... or Kowloon, Hong Kong.!

    Don't see all that many NAKED folk in poor countries, do you?

    Clothing isn't all that different from what WE wear. Just priced so they can afford it.

    It be our own retailer chains as are doing the f*****g. "Designer label" as is getting RICH!

    Not their third-world suppliers...
    Last edited by thermite; 01-18-2021 at 11:27 PM.

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    I think there will be two groups that are really damaged by the proposed changes.

    1. No-skill workers, as they are on a collision course of increasing wages and decreasing cost of automation.

    2. Seniors and disabled that are on a fixed income. As previous commenters mentioned, Social Security is increasing well under the rate of inflation, and pensions are fixed. Investments can do well, but in a retirement scenario the risk/reward equation gets dicey. A decade like 1973 to 1982 (about 130% inflation) will be crushing.

    The amount that of invented money that has already been fed into the system is bad enough. 1.9 trillion more is terrifying.

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    Schiff is clueless. All those minimum wage jobs he’s complaining about disappeared for reasons beyond a minimum wage hike. Liability exposure killed many of those, along with technological advances increasing efficiency and reliability. The real pisser is that as an employer, you are not getting anything for paying more. The flaky bastard who wasn’t showing up before will still not show up for $15. It’s just costing you more. Higher payroll taxes, higher worker’s compensation insurance, higher health insurance and higher unemployment insurance - all tied to wages.
    All workers are valuable and So is the work they do. But inflating wages and trying to justify it with the “all ships rise with the tide” mentality doesn’t work when all our ships are anchored to the sea floor of global competition. California is a shining model of what happens under heavy regulation and inflated wages. California is hemorrhaging industries. Businesses that can afford it are fleeing and those who stay will find themselves unable to compete. Much like we have seen in many sectors of industry who have already left the US and set up shop in countries with fewer regulations and more favorable tax laws. You say those were shit jobs no one wanted anyway, but they were the core of our nation when we were an undisputed superpower. It’s what allowed us to develop our skilled workforce.

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  21. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spruewell View Post
    Schiff is clueless. All those minimum wage jobs he’s complaining about disappeared for reasons beyond a minimum wage hike. Liability exposure killed many of those, along with technological advances increasing efficiency and reliability. The real pisser is that as an employer, you are not getting anything for paying more. The flaky bastard who wasn’t showing up before will still not show up for $15. It’s just costing you more. Higher payroll taxes, higher worker’s compensation insurance, higher health insurance and higher unemployment insurance - all tied to wages.
    All workers are valuable and So is the work they do. But inflating wages and trying to justify it with the “all ships rise with the tide” mentality doesn’t work when all our ships are anchored to the sea floor of global competition. California is a shining model of what happens under heavy regulation and inflated wages. California is hemorrhaging industries. Businesses that can afford it are fleeing and those who stay will find themselves unable to compete. Much like we have seen in many sectors of industry who have already left the US and set up shop in countries with fewer regulations and more favorable tax laws. You say those were shit jobs no one wanted anyway, but they were the core of our nation when we were an undisputed superpower. It’s what allowed us to develop our skilled workforce.
    Schiff wasn't so much "clueless" as he was over-generalizing and over-extrapolating.

    His position fits mebbe a THIRD of the issue, best-case.

    Because it is both more complex, and highly regional/sub-regional, simultaneously industry-specific, skills and labour-pool composition makeup specific.. and on demographics of age, ethnicity, education.. what a(ny) given zone NEEDS vs some other zone.. yadda, yadda.

    State and Community-specific min wages have not worked well. Fed application tries to capitalize on the WEAKNESS in that experience, AND NOT strengths?

    Stupidly lazy on the part of those who have mistaken a BFBI problem-maker for a nuanced solution, is that?

    "Buckle up buttercups."

    Only the beginning of a race to the bottom of wise and effective governance.

    And if "spruewell" is not that mark-down QC-reject used-condom salesman "Swallowswell"?

    WTF are you doing - or FAILING to do - still posting from "California?"

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    Good chance the cost of living will go up with $4.00 fuel gas..and all goods that need trucking.
    Two reasons to hate oil are I don't like it and There are more kick-backs with other energy.

    Canada scrambles to salvage Keystone XL as Biden prepares to kill troubled pipeline project

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    Threads like this make it easy to see how many will love UBI and a centrally planned economy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Illinoyance View Post
    Those of us on social security will be screwed as the cost of living takes a big jump.
    So hang on a second; people who collect social security right now were most likely fortunate enough to enter the workforce at a time when minimum wage was relatively high. Now that they are retired, they expect us to keep wages down so they won't lose any buying power to inflation?!

    Why would you not want future generations to have more access to wealth and opportunity than your own?

    Why are we witnessing a total breakdown of empathy in our society?

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    Quote Originally Posted by iloveTXBBQ View Post
    Also, if a person can make 15 HR at a cash register, why take the stress/health risks for making chips for only slightly more in an entry level posistion?
    Don't have to deal with the general public, and set hours that don't vary.


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