What's new
What's new

How does the Chinese energy crisis is affecting your business

Central pricing is creating chaos.

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

Interesting companion video


dee
;-D

I understand the premise of one company being a defacto monopoly because several likely would have trouble allegedly building and competing in the same areas. It gave the example of several power companies putting up electrical lines in the same area.

I think the comparison lacks reality as even with the railroads there were many different outfits building different segments. Sure with the East West push there were two major entities yet the branch offs from the main path were often built by others. For big money they tend to want to lend to big companies.

Such is rather a secure investment they believe. In actuality the reality is that competition is better. Thus shows the tendency in finance and government to socialize such efforts. In my opinion. The big joke here is that the govt loves small business. They do love it because they make sure they pay their taxes. They love the consumer too especially the ones with $600.00 in their bank accounts. They can be audited over nothing it seems. The IRS does not want to bother going after the billionaires because they will be a costly fight as these can afford the very best accountants and lawyers. Heck they know all the tax law better than the IRS.

Gouge the little guys. Any administration or political party. Something else people do not understand is that when energy such as coal based or fossil fuel based goes up then powering the generation goes up there in China but the outfit buying the fuel to generate electricity can not charge more because the government says so. In Texas in short supply during the cold snap buying more energy to meet demand outside of contracts and in greater amounts saw huge price increases.

When this happens they run out of fuel or can not keep the grid powered. Many ships filled with Australian coal are waiting offshore in China because of a dispute a argument between them. They will break down and bring one in and later another.

Not being paid these ships there and here are defacto warehouses and if money is not paid nothing is shipped nor used bottom line. Often under these circumstances these items sitting there become scarce when used up and then the price rises, they have to cover storing offshore ship materials.
 
Central pricing is creating chaos.
Deke, it's horseshit. They have no one there (no J visas at this time) and even if they did, they can only get away with this nonsense because the people who want to believe it will no matter what the facts are. Everyone is working fine, most people wish they were having disruptions so they could stay hme :)

These alleged disruptions are no worse than the US has been having for years (I lived through the Enron fiasco) and they quite easily do things that are impossible in the US, like changing work hours to balance the demand. Or putting finance criminals in prison, for that matter.

More stupid propaganda out of the US press, with an agenda.

I've read these disaster scenarios so many times, "Oh look, disaster, China will fall !" "Another disaster, China will fall again !" "The end of the world is here for China !"

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, no one in China even notices.
 
Chairman Xi has had a hissy fit over us here in Oz disrespecting him,and cunningly pushed the price of steam coal up from US$50 a ton a year ago to US $350 a ton.....and pushed up shipping cost by 5X so that user cost of import coal is more like $500 a ton.....And all the Oz coal that was packed by the wrong kind of dinosaurs is quietly being used to keep the furnaces hot.
 
Chairman Xi has had a hissy fit over us here in Oz disrespecting him, and cunningly pushed the price of steam coal up from US$50 a ton a year ago to the US $350 a ton.....and pushed up shipping cost by 5X so that user cost of import coal is more like $500 a ton.....And all the Oz coal that was packed by the wrong kind of dinosaurs is quietly being used to keep the furnaces hot.

It is not all rosy as EG says. How China’s energy crisis happened, in six steps – SupChina I guess the restriction on AZ coal is not helping China right now. They will figure it out in the long run, and this will accelerate the Chinese move to renewables. Wonder how this will impact climate discussion.
 
Rosy ? I've gone three weeks in Heilongjiang without hot water because it was winter and the power plant had a problem. The shop kept running tho and we made do. The tractor accessory factory (where we had a different j/v) had all the pipes freeze and break because they couldn't pay the water bill, or something. No big deal. If they have some rationing, people can handle it. Used to take the 104 bus to and from downtown - you didn't dare hang onto the overhead bar because your hands could freeze to it. We wore heavy coats (and a sweater made of unwashed yak hair that was really really warm.)

We handled it in California when Enron played their scam, too. It didn't kill California and some shortages won't kill China. They will figure out any problems and solve them -- just like they do with every other foreign-press-terrifying pseudo-disaster.

I'm sick of this stupid shit.

Now, about your chicken-little source - SupChina doesn't know shit. They are from New York. They have no people in any position to get real information. They make stupid claim after stupid claim, such as "Taiwan Powered China's Transformation Into a Superpower". Yeah right.

Your source :

"Matthew Silberman is Contributor, SupChina A.M. and Manager, Business and Technology Research at SupChina. Previously, he studied Chinese as a Blakemore Freeman fellow at the International Chinese Language Program in Taiwan. He has also been a speechwriter at the Wilson Center in Washington, D.C., a researcher for Evan Osnos, and an editor at the Korea JoongAng Daily in Seoul, South Korea."

Lessee, he's never been to the mainland. He can't speak Chinese, because Taiwanese have such a thick accent no one can understand them. Even movie stars have to get dubbed. He took two semesters which got him as far as liang zhi lao hu, liang zhi lao hu. He's never lived in China and has no connections there to know what is really going on. He was a phony newsletter editor in Korea. Wow. Maybe he could write about Africa or Antarctica while he's at it, he knows nothing about them either.

He's a piece of ignorant shit, and you are taking his word - not verifiable facts, but the word of a nobody twat - as what is happening.

Are they short of coal ? 99% probability. Is it going to be an insurmountable problem ? Let's look at the last line in his article : "Analysts at Goldman Sachs and Nomura Holdings cut their full-year projections from 8.2% to around 7.7%."

Western analysts dropped their projections for GDP growth from 8.2% to 7.7%. This is a problem ? What's gdp growth in the US ?

It's just sky is falling silliness. Sure, there's always problems everywhere in the world -- but this disaster-chasing is retarded. It NEVER HAPPENS.

Want a taste of reality ? I'll give you some factories to call. You'll need to brush up on your chinese tho :D

edit: here ya go, Deke :D

Why is SupChina Passing Itself Off as China Briefing? - China Briefing News

Those guys have actually been around a long time. They are kinda Hong-Kongy and there's some funny stories behind the scenes, they ran like bunnies when Chris Devonshire-Ellis got exposed and deported, but they are the real deal, not as talented as they think but still, not pretenders halfway round the globe.
 
Rosy ? I've gone three weeks in Heilongjiang without hot water because it was winter and the power plant had a problem. The shop kept running tho and we made do. The tractor accessory factory (where we had a different j/v) had all the pipes freeze and break because they couldn't pay the water bill, or something. No big deal. If they have some rationing, people can handle it. Used to take the 104 bus to and from downtown - you didn't dare hang onto the overhead bar because your hands could freeze to it. We wore heavy coats (and a sweater made of unwashed yak hair that was really really warm.)

We handled it in California when Enron played their scam, too. It didn't kill California and some shortages won't kill China. They will figure out any problems and solve them -- just like they do with every other foreign-press-terrifying pseudo-disaster.

I'm sick of this stupid shit.

Now, about your chicken-little source - SupChina doesn't know shit. They are from New York. They have no people in any position to get real information. They make stupid claim after stupid claim, such as "Taiwan Powered China's Transformation Into a Superpower". Yeah right.

Your source :

"Matthew Silberman is Contributor, SupChina A.M. and Manager, Business and Technology Research at SupChina. Previously, he studied Chinese as a Blakemore Freeman fellow at the International Chinese Language Program in Taiwan. He has also been a speechwriter at the Wilson Center in Washington, D.C., a researcher for Evan Osnos, and an editor at the Korea JoongAng Daily in Seoul, South Korea."

Lessee, he's never been to the mainland. He can't speak Chinese, because Taiwanese have such a thick accent no one can understand them. Even movie stars have to get dubbed. He took two semesters which got him as far as liang zhi lao hu, liang zhi lao hu. He's never lived in China and has no connections there to know what is really going on. He was a phony newsletter editor in Korea. Wow. Maybe he could write about Africa or Antarctica while he's at it, he knows nothing about them either.

He's a piece of ignorant shit, and you are taking his word - not verifiable facts, but the word of a nobody twat - as what is happening.

Are they short of coal ? 99% probability. Is it going to be an insurmountable problem ? Let's look at the last line in his article : "Analysts at Goldman Sachs and Nomura Holdings cut their full-year projections from 8.2% to around 7.7%."

Western analysts dropped their projections for GDP growth from 8.2% to 7.7%. This is a problem ? What's gdp growth in the US ?

It's just sky is falling silliness. Sure, there's always problems everywhere in the world -- but this disaster-chasing is retarded. It NEVER HAPPENS.

Want a taste of reality ? I'll give you some factories to call. You'll need to brush up on your chinese tho :D

edit: here ya go, Deke :D

Why is SupChina Passing Itself Off as China Briefing? - China Briefing News

Those guys have actually been around a long time. They are kinda Hong-Kongy and there's some funny stories behind the scenes, they ran like bunnies when Chris Devonshire-Ellis got exposed and deported, but they are the real deal, not as talented as they think but still, not pretenders halfway round the globe.

I am a bit confused why there cannot be civil conversation on this subject. You seem to defend the Chinese energy policy at all cost, attack the sources I cite, and swore up and down that there is no issue. What is in it for you? I think there is plenty to criticize in Chinese reliance on coal and general energy policy, and some in the west point to the energy instability as the source of the supply chain issues. I guess I triggered you by pointing out something that some of this side of the pond seem to think is an issue.
 
An interesting issue developing in the UK is that the wholesale price of lektrickery has exceeded the govt capped retail price,and suppliers are going to the wall .......for those who follow such things .......these poor folk have no coal mines to fall back on,as Maggie T thoroughly trashed the coal industry to destroy the smelly miners.....And what she didnt smash up,that insidious little prick Tony Blair did away with in his quest for a Britain where all the people who mattered were Oxford graduates ,and the rest were "the little people who mow the grass ,and unblock the drains"
 
I am a bit confused why there cannot be civil conversation on this subject.
Because too much of it is so effing stewpid. Lies lies and more lies.

Say you live on Elm St. Know the neighbors pretty well, just normal people, not saints not devils. Borrow a cup of sugar now and then, their kid mows your lawn. But every time you stop at the local coffee shop a bunch of ignorant assholes who have never been anywhere near your neighborhood are telling dishonest stories about how the neighor to your left is a slut and fucks dogs, the neighbor to your right kills teenagers and buries them under the house, the neighbor across the street sells smack to the local high school students.

It's all lies and it's all crap and you know better. What do you do, just sit there and nod your head yes ?

You seem to defend the Chinese energy policy at all cost, attack the sources I cite, and swore up and down that there is no issue.
Your source is SHIT. Even Dezan-Shira, who are western business consultants and about 170* off my own viewpoint, have a page reading them out. They and Epoch Time and Washington Post and NY Times stink. Lying pieces of garbage. The best of them will write three sensible paragraphs, then add some fuckwit "narrative" which runs 180* counter to the facts they just printed.

It's nothing but hate-mongering propaganda. "Why" is a question left up to the reader.

I don't "defend China's energy policy at all costs", I don't know what it is, And NEITHER DO ANY OF THESE FUCKWITS, AND NEITHER DO YOU.

Beijing does not work like Worshington. Nobody except the people involved know what is actually going on. When a bunch of airhead dickwads in New York say stuff, it's all crap. They have absolutely no way to know what is going on. None. The particular dickwads you pointed to do not even have anyone in China to talk to. They have to steal their "briefings" from people who are there. Even those very business-oriented westerners at Dezan-Shira despise your source.

(Dezan-Shira have never been my favorites. They charge for what you can do yourself, and if faced with a difficult problem they run away. But they are probably a help to beginners, and they don't lie. They are too much money uber alles for me, but not liars.)

About the "issue", I don't say there is no "issue". People we know in Jinan, Shandong, Jiangsu, and Heilongjiang say "there is no issue." A temporary difficulty ? Sure. But "issue" ? Invasion by Japan is an "issue". The massive floods some years ago were an issue. Running low on high-grade coal is not an issue. If necessary they will just burn the bad stuff again. Obviously they are trying not to do that. Good for them.

What is in it for you?
Truth.

I am sick to death of this endless stream of made-up disasters. Like Alan Greenspan, it doesnt seem to matter that every single prediction by these people is wrong. No matter what, they can keep coming up with new delusions and people will buy them because they want to.

Well, they're all shit.

I think there is plenty to criticize
Why ? Is it your problem ? Per capita, the US is what, five times worse ? And what is the US doing about it, other than spreading ridiculous nonsense about "global warming is a myth" ? Do I need to point out that the current electricity situation in dongbei is the result of working for cleaner air and less CO2 ? If you feel impelled to criticize, how about starting somewhere closer to home ?

some in the west point to the energy instability as the source of the supply chain issues.
"Some in the west" apparently need to drop their output in the toilet rather than in the press. The ships are parked off the coast of California, not Ningbo. Supply chain issues are in the US, not in China. Almost two years ago I shipped several hundred N95 masks to a friend in the US. They got to the US in five days. They got to her three months later. WTF ? China's fault, I suppose ?

Everything I come across is like this. Dig into these stories and it turns out totally different than the surface reporting. Chips for cars ... why are they short ? Because they cancelled their orders, and the electronics biz took up the slack. That's not at ALL what you read in the mainstream press.

I guess I triggered you by pointing out something that some of this side of the pond seem to think is an issue.
You triggered me by pointing to a bunch of nitwits with an axe who blame all of the US problems on someone else. You want something from China ? Tell me what. We'll get it out in a week, then ten days later it will sit off the coast of California for three months while the fucking idiots in LA and Chicago and Baltimore don't unload it, can't ship it, can't deliver it, probably can't even find it. They're too busy crying over masks or getting shots and having their DNA rearranged, or some other weirdass delusion.

Don't need to worry about China, they will be fine. Spend your worries closer to home - the US has fucked this thing up beyond belief all by its widdow sewf and nobody seems to be able to figure out how to fix even the simplest little things. You've got governments from top to bottom who couldn't compete with a flea circus for brains, god knows how this will end. Looks like 476 A.D. to me.

Thirty years ago would not have believed this.

Maroons. Unbelievable. Read about Marjorie Taylor Greene (or the Supreme Court), that'll give you enough to worry about instead for the next twenty years :D
 
Because too much of it is so effing stewpid. Lies lies and more lies.

Say you live on Elm St. Know the neighbors pretty well, just normal people, not saints not devils. Borrow a cup of sugar now and then, their kid mows your lawn. But every time you stop at the local coffee shop a bunch of ignorant assholes who have never been anywhere near your neighborhood are telling dishonest stories about how the neighor to your left is a slut and fucks dogs, the neighbor to your right kills teenagers and buries them under the house, the neighbor across the street sells smack to the local high school students.

It's all lies and it's all crap and you know better. What do you do, just sit there and nod your head yes ?


Your source is SHIT. Even Dezan-Shira, who are western business consultants and about 170* off my own viewpoint, have a page reading them out. They and Epoch Time and Washington Post and NY Times stink. Lying pieces of garbage. The best of them will write three sensible paragraphs, then add some fuckwit "narrative" which runs 180* counter to the facts they just printed.

It's nothing but hate-mongering propaganda. "Why" is a question left up to the reader.

I don't "defend China's energy policy at all costs", I don't know what it is, And NEITHER DO ANY OF THESE FUCKWITS, AND NEITHER DO YOU.

Beijing does not work like Worshington. Nobody except the people involved know what is actually going on. When a bunch of airhead dickwads in New York say stuff, it's all crap. They have absolutely no way to know what is going on. None. The particular dickwads you pointed to do not even have anyone in China to talk to. They have to steal their "briefings" from people who are there. Even those very business-oriented westerners at Dezan-Shira despise your source.

(Dezan-Shira have never been my favorites. They charge for what you can do yourself, and if faced with a difficult problem they run away. But they are probably a help to beginners, and they don't lie. They are too much money uber alles for me, but not liars.)

About the "issue", I don't say there is no "issue". People we know in Jinan, Shandong, Jiangsu, and Heilongjiang say "there is no issue." A temporary difficulty ? Sure. But "issue" ? Invasion by Japan is an "issue". The massive floods some years ago were an issue. Running low on high-grade coal is not an issue. If necessary they will just burn the bad stuff again. Obviously they are trying not to do that. Good for them.


Truth.

I am sick to death of this endless stream of made-up disasters. Like Alan Greenspan, it doesnt seem to matter that every single prediction by these people is wrong. No matter what, they can keep coming up with new delusions and people will buy them because they want to.

Well, they're all shit.


Why ? Is it your problem ? Per capita, the US is what, five times worse ? And what is the US doing about it, other than spreading ridiculous nonsense about "global warming is a myth" ? Do I need to point out that the current electricity situation in dongbei is the result of working for cleaner air and less CO2 ? If you feel impelled to criticize, how about starting somewhere closer to home ?


"Some in the west" apparently need to drop their output in the toilet rather than in the press. The ships are parked off the coast of California, not Ningbo. Supply chain issues are in the US, not in China. Almost two years ago I shipped several hundred N95 masks to a friend in the US. They got to the US in five days. They got to her three months later. WTF ? China's fault, I suppose ?

Everything I come across is like this. Dig into these stories and it turns out totally different than the surface reporting. Chips for cars ... why are they short ? Because they cancelled their orders, and the electronics biz took up the slack. That's not at ALL what you read in the mainstream press.


You triggered me by pointing to a bunch of nitwits with an axe who blame all of the US problems on someone else. You want something from China ? Tell me what. We'll get it out in a week, then ten days later it will sit off the coast of California for three months while the fucking idiots in LA and Chicago and Baltimore don't unload it, can't ship it, can't deliver it, probably can't even find it. They're too busy crying over masks or getting shots and having their DNA rearranged, or some other weirdass delusion.

Don't need to worry about China, they will be fine. Spend your worries closer to home - the US has fucked this thing up beyond belief all by its widdow sewf and nobody seems to be able to figure out how to fix even the simplest little things. You've got governments from top to bottom who couldn't compete with a flea circus for brains, god knows how this will end. Looks like 476 A.D. to me.

Thirty years ago would not have believed this.

Maroons. Unbelievable. Read about Marjorie Taylor Greene (or the Supreme Court), that'll give you enough to worry about instead for the next twenty years :D

You are proving my point...I started with the article in the Financial Times, you dismissed it like there is no problem in China. It would be like me dismissing your criticism of the nutcases here. In order to have a civil discussion, you need to look at what is happening critically, and not get triggered because you do not like the source. If there is no issue, provide facts, There are factors in the market that indicate that there are structural problems in the Chinese energy sector. Ping denying it is not fact, what one person sees is typically anecdotal and people at organizations like FT usually point out trends that individuals may totally miss. And as the title said, whatever happens in China is deeply impacting the US.
 
You are proving my point...I started with the article in the Financial Times, you dismissed it like there is no problem in China.
This is like pointing to articles in the Pittsburgh Express about how bad off the Raiders are. It's DUMB. (Showing my age I guess.) Link to something off a Chinese site. Even Dezan-Shira is acceptable. You know, someone who is actually there and has a clue and isn't engaged in long-term psychowar !

DC, these places are full of shit. Just like Alan Greenspan they predict stuff that never happens again, and again, and again, and again. They are worse than worthless.

And then they go off and "explain" how LIBOR works ..... (where's the laughing hysterically emoticon ?)

And as the title said, whatever happens in China is deeply impacting the US.
Well, supply obviously isn't because the goddamned ships are not parked off Qingdao, they are in Los Angeles and Seattle. So five cent's worth of thinking will point out that this whole line of reasoning is crap. Especially when even their own stupid article says Goldman et al have downgraded China's growth from 8.2% to 7.7%. Growth. That means they are making MORE stuff, not less.

(Not that Goldman has any way of knowing anything either. But still, logic says you shouldn't contradict yourself in your own article.)
 
I am a bit confused why there cannot be civil conversation on this subject. You seem to defend the Chinese energy policy at all cost, attack the sources I cite, and swore up and down that there is no issue. What is in it for you? I think there is plenty to criticize in Chinese reliance on coal and general energy policy, and some in the west point to the energy instability as the source of the supply chain issues. I guess I triggered you by pointing out something that some of this side of the pond seem to think is an issue.

Because the Chinese state is his god. It can only be right, it cannot be questioned.

Behead those who insult China. Xi akbar.
 
This is like pointing to articles in the Pittsburgh Express about how bad off the Raiders are. It's DUMB. (Showing my age I guess.) Link to something off a Chinese site. Even Dezan-Shira is acceptable. You know, someone who is actually there and has a clue and isn't engaged in long-term psychowar !

DC, these places are full of shit. Just like Alan Greenspan they predict stuff that never happens again, and again, and again, and again. They are worse than worthless.

And then they go off and "explain" how LIBOR works ..... (where's the laughing hysterically emoticon ?)


Well, supply obviously isn't because the goddamned ships are not parked off Qingdao, they are in Los Angeles and Seattle. So five cent's worth of thinking will point out that this whole line of reasoning is crap. Especially when even their own stupid article says Goldman et al have downgraded China's growth from 8.2% to 7.7%. Growth. That means they are making MORE stuff, not less.

(Not that Goldman has any way of knowing anything either. But still, logic says you shouldn't contradict yourself in your own article.)

That is pretty much what we have noticed most all articles will hype a topic “Trump births ten three headed Pit Bull puppies” and in the article there will be at least one disclaimer or a few which state the opposing view. Many here site articles all the time like this. They essentially have little thinking which accompanies such sites.

Not saying these are that way really yet EG has a good point he has a much closer experience than most.
 
China has been buying more metallurgical and steam coal from the United States, since their spat with Australia.

US coal is more expensive at the Chinese port than Aussie coal, but when they need it, they need it.

Good for my business, as the US coal industry is busier now than it's been in a decade. Most coal mined underground anymore is met coal, as steam coal is just too cheap to mine underground (unless it's a dedicated mine at the power plant site).

The world economy is coming back after Covid, and all industries are busy.

ToolCat
 
Well we have pretty good coal and oodles of it and if it is a matter of having lights or not or freezing or not or even being cool or roasting I do not care what is being pushed as a alternative consistency is king and everyone can walk everywhere they go or ride a horse but there will be energy. No one will just sit on coal and suffer without it.

The coal plants can be better made to capture emissions if need be. Too capping methane is wise. I will point out that even at zero emissions in the US without easy means to fix this problem the emissions will continue. The US does not have to go broke in the process and creating a whole new class of robber baron/oligarchs class. See how everyone likes that world heck they might even instal a King and Queen or a emperor.

Watching the World Series tonight. I like both teams but am for the Astros. Both are Southern teams this year! Good baseball can happen everywhere even under Communism. There are still the important things in life.
 
I would like to burn coal to heat my home in winter.

Wood is bulky and laborsome. Even though I've become used to the process over the past 30+ years.

Coal need not be "dry" to heat. Coal is compact, and burns cleanly.

Coal is "dirty" in the handling of it however.

I've got this small coal water heater sitting as a decoration not 5 feet from me. Perhaps some day......
 
When I was a kid ,we always had free coal from the railway at the end of the street.......now 70 years later ,there is a million tons a month going past ,but the govt has it buttoned up so tight ,there is not even dust to be had......you cant buy Qld coal here ,the state govt is so terrified greens will use the stuff in publicity stunts......if I want coal ,it comes from Poland in paper sacks and costs a fortune.
 








 
Back
Top