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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    'Paying' can mean many things.

    Getting a new deal on NAFTA is a good start. Billions come fast and plenty through FAIR trade.
    I guess I'd agree that "paying can mean many things." But honoring his original Mexico-will-pay promise or even reducing the trade deficit doesn't seem to be among them.

    Just another of the daily lies.

    See the chart, below. The trade deficit has gotten worse under Trump. We're the ones paying.

    Trump managed to repatriate corporate cash - which went into profit taking. Gave the hedge fund guys a tax break he promised they'd never get. Pissed off most of our allies and trade partners. Never made the promised infrastructure investments -- not a tweet. Created new enemies. Set citizen against citizen. Started a trade war with not much gained. Basically screwed our economic leadership in the the Asia Pacific region. Now leaving Syria and the Middle East a greater mess. Saw the market lose for 2018. Claimed credit for an economy and employment that's basically a straight line headed up since a year after the Great Recession. Saw the trillions of borrowed money for a tax break -- normally a huge boost -- start to fizzle just a year later.

    Drain the swamp? This has been the most corrupt administration in scores of years -- and not inspiring of business confidence. Hire the best? Good people are leaving in droves -- some calling their former boss an "idiot."

    Trump basically created his own healthcare, Paris Accord, NATO, Mexican border, Iran, North Korea, and now government funding crises -- all currently no better or worse for the hoopla. Lots of bluster, promises, and self-congratulation. But no healthcare reform, a world moving beyond us, a shaken NATO, and mostly BS all around.

    The man embraced Putin while invading Crimea and rewriting the history of their Afghanistan invasion, gave props to dictators around the world, and kissed up to the Saudi regime post murdering and sawing up a journalist. Made a mockery of US presidents' words being trusted, much less any sense of moral leadership or even shame. All from the man who claims to be the greatest President ever, smarter than all his generals, smartest in technology (latest comments) so he knows it won't work but his steel-slats-in-the-mud-wall will.

    Hard to say if we have a government -- or a TV and Tweet spectacle. What Trump did for his reality TV "business lessons," casinos, ties, airline, vodka, screwed subcontractors, and "university" -- he's now doing for the country.

    Now we're going to shut down the government and stiff employees until we build Trump's beautiful" and "totally effective" wall of steel slats to fix all this?

    I'm embarrassed that this is what our country has come to . . .*

    *This from a pro business, gun owning citizen who's never voted a straight party ticket -- who thinks those in this country should be here legally -- and that we should surely insist upon a level playing field in trade.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails tradedeficit.jpg  

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    Yup, skip the wall.......Ma duce, Intersecting fields of fire Don't shoot anyone in the back.
    Because gunning down families escaping the consequences of American foreign policy is cool.
    Might as well mine the border like east Germany and be done.


    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    I know walls don't work. pelosi, shumer, tear down the wall around your houses.
    Your fallacy today is false equivalency.
    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    'Paying' can mean many things.

    Getting a new deal on NAFTA is a good start. Billions come fast and plenty through FAIR trade.
    Yeah...the new version is the same as the old and it will never pass the senate.
    Are you honestly saying the new version will increase federal revenues 5b?
    Try again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    'Paying' can mean many things.

    Getting a new deal on NAFTA is a good start. Billions come fast and plenty through FAIR trade.
    SO that is what you thought he meant when you were chanting 'Mexico will pay?'

    So that is what trumpski meant?

    I think not


    The wall is useless, it will not stop illegal immigration

    IT will not stop drug trafficking

    It will put us further in debt[see how disinterested the republicans are in balancing the budget right now?]

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  5. #44
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    SO now his plan is to use emergency funds intended for Texas and Puerto Rico hurricane relief

    Hope you Texans are happy..................................

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    'Paying' can mean many things.

    Getting a new deal on NAFTA is a good start. Billions come fast and plenty through FAIR trade.
    to clarify, trump is a liar, his followers believe and repeat his lies:
    >>>>>>>
    He did say it — at least 212 times during his campaign and dozens more since he took office. And he put it in writing — in a March 2016 memo to news outlets that was then posted on his campaign website.

    Specifically, Trump threatened to cut off billions of dollars in remittance payments from Mexican nationals in the United States to families in their home country. That, he proclaimed, would pressure the Mexican government to cough up “a one-time payment of $5-10 billion” for the wall.

    <<<<<<<<<


    Most recently, Trump has resorted to arguing that Mexico will indirectly pay through a revised trade deal that his administration signed with Mexico and Canada. But that deal has yet to be ratified by Congress, contains no provisions earmarking money for the wall, and economists have doubted whether it would significantly increase revenue flowing to the U.S. treasury.
    So, he did say they would write a check

    >>>>>>>>>>

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    I dont quite understand how you can believe that "Mexico" is paying when they buy US Corn, or US cars, or US bulldozers- if they do those things more, under Trump's "NEW" trade deal, the money they spend goes to farmers, or BMW (they like X-5s in Mexico) , or CAT.

    The only way the money goes from, say, CAT, to pay for the wall, is if Trump gets tax dollars from CAT.
    Which isnt much- CAT has been running its international sales thru a Swiss subsidiary, and not paying US taxes on it. So even Trump's IRS thinks CAT owes them and additional $2Billion. But the IRS agents are furloughed right now...
    And the republicans are slashing IRS jobs anyway, so most likely CAT wont pay.
    Caterpillar's $2 billion tax fight with the IRS could change how US companies do business

    Mexico aint paying.
    We are.

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    The post above about the logistics getting and forming that much steel was very interesting.

    A report was released on ways to breach the slat wall. The govt redacted the specifics. People breaching walls is as old as time itself.

    What stops trivially made rope ladders? Throw a rope up, use it to hoist the ladder. Then climb. How long does that take? Of course they might just use nicer rigid ladders.

    You know those heavy duty U shaped bike locks? I always wondered how thieves could get around those. They open them with tiny bottle jacks. And those jacks are quiet.

    Would a bottle jack spread the slats? Cables could hold the slats together, but then there is the battery powered angle grinder to cut the cables. I doubt a come-a-long has enough force to spread the slats, but it is another option and might play a role. That seems excessive compared to just using a ladder.

    What stops those obvious techniques?

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    Some/many government jobs depend on giving my tax dollars to non citizens...

    63% of Non-Citizen Households Access Welfare Programs | Center for Immigration Studies

    My Son in in law was renting houses to such people in California...

    Wide open borders... perhaps we should just invite everybody in China to come to the USA..

    Agree many China people would go out and get a job...

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Some/many government jobs depend on giving my tax dollars to non citizens...

    63% of Non-Citizen Households Access Welfare Programs | Center for Immigration Studies

    My Son in in law was renting houses to such people in California...

    Wide open borders we should just invite everybody in China to come to the USA..

    Agree many China people would go out and get a job...
    BS

    There definition of welfare benefits borders on bizarre



    Who exactly, other than you and the trumpistas are talking about wide open borders?

    No one

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    We should ask the residents of San Diego, El Paso, Yuma if they want their walls torn down.

    I'm pretty sure I know the answer.

    I have a fenced yard and locks on my doors, but I still had my house burglarized last year. They don't stop everyone, but that doesn't mean I'm going to tear down the fence and leave the doors unlocked...

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    Funny not one US rep of a border county supports the wall

    A country is not a house

    If your roof was leaking and caving in, your boiler was 50 years old and costing a fortune to run, your car was on its last legs, would you run out and borrow money to build a new 3 foot tall fence around your yard to protect from burglars?

    YOu might

    But it would be a dumbass thing to do

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  18. #52
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    Brietbart is about as biased right wing trash as you can get. I wouldn't waste one second looking at anything from them. That's where the right wing crazies get their "real news".

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    Billions come fast and plenty through FAIR trade.
    Unless they don't. Maybe the other countries get pissed at us and just stop trading with us. Same for tariffs. Exactly what do we produce that can't be had anywhere else besides maybe weapons? And many other countries make weapons too.

    Turn off rush. It's rotting your brain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    I guess I'd agree that "paying can mean many things." But honoring his original Mexico-will-pay promise or even reducing the trade deficit doesn't seem to be among them.

    Just another of the daily lies.

    See the chart, below. The trade deficit has gotten worse under Trump. We're the ones paying.

    Trump managed to repatriate corporate cash - which went into profit taking. Gave the hedge fund guys a tax break he promised they'd never get. Pissed off most of our allies and trade partners. Never made the promised infrastructure investments -- not a tweet. Created new enemies. Set citizen against citizen. Started a trade war with not much gained. Basically screwed our economic leadership in the the Asia Pacific region. Now leaving Syria and the Middle East a greater mess. Saw the market lose for 2018. Claimed credit for an economy and employment that's basically a straight line headed up since a year after the Great Recession. Saw the trillions of borrowed money for a tax break -- normally a huge boost -- start to fizzle just a year later.

    Drain the swamp? This has been the most corrupt administration in scores of years -- and not inspiring of business confidence. Hire the best? Good people are leaving in droves -- some calling their former boss an "idiot."

    Trump basically created his own healthcare, Paris Accord, NATO, Mexican border, Iran, North Korea, and now government funding crises -- all currently no better or worse for the hoopla. Lots of bluster, promises, and self-congratulation. But no healthcare reform, a world moving beyond us, a shaken NATO, and mostly BS all around.

    The man embraced Putin while invading Crimea and rewriting the history of their Afghanistan invasion, gave props to dictators around the world, and kissed up to the Saudi regime post murdering and sawing up a journalist. Made a mockery of US presidents' words being trusted, much less any sense of moral leadership or even shame. All from the man who claims to be the greatest President ever, smarter than all his generals, smartest in technology (latest comments) so he knows it won't work but his steel-slats-in-the-mud-wall will.

    Hard to say if we have a government -- or a TV and Tweet spectacle. What Trump did for his reality TV "business lessons," casinos, ties, airline, vodka, screwed subcontractors, and "university" -- he's now doing for the country.

    Now we're going to shut down the government and stiff employees until we build Trump's beautiful" and "totally effective" wall of steel slats to fix all this?

    I'm embarrassed that this is what our country has come to . . .*

    *This from a pro business, gun owning citizen who's never voted a straight party ticket -- who thinks those in this country should be here legally -- and that we should surely insist upon a level playing field in trade.
    Thanks for putting into words what I was thinking.

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  23. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    We should ask the residents of San Diego, El Paso, Yuma if they want their walls torn down.

    I'm pretty sure I know the answer.

    I have a fenced yard and locks on my doors, but I still had my house burglarized last year. They don't stop everyone, but that doesn't mean I'm going to tear down the fence and leave the doors unlocked...
    You'd think that the Mexicans could have found a home to burglarize a little bit closer than Oregon. So you are arguing that you put a fence up and it didn't stop a burglary but you still think fences are a good idea. OOOOOOkkkkkkkay.

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    One thing that you can be sure of. If Obama had built a wall, the orange idiot would be very busy getting it torn down. He is the ultimate white supremacist.

    In the pages of history he will never be a pimple on Obama's ass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    ...So you are arguing that you put a fence up and it didn't stop a burglary but you still think fences are a good idea. OOOOOOkkkkkkkay.
    Um, no. I am saying just because my house was burglarized does not mean the locks and fence serve no purpose.

    I reject false dichotomies.

    I posted this on another thread, maybe it bears repeating:
    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc
    ...any combat engineer will tell you that a wall is a force multiplier, it is not a force unto itself. The purpose it to make the other guy go over, under, or around the obstacle. This slows them down and increases the chance of detecting and capturing them. Most people will go around, and the walls are intended to funnel them into areas that are more readily patrolled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Um, no. I am saying just because my house was burglarized does not mean the locks and fence serve no purpose.

    I reject false dichotomies.

    I posted this on another thread, maybe it bears repeating:
    No, it means they did not serve the purpose you are projecting as your intent

    i reject all your BS


    the wall is a waste of money, because it will also not serve the purpose for which it is intended

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Some/many government jobs depend on giving my tax dollars to non citizens...

    63% of Non-Citizen Households Access Welfare Programs | Center for Immigration Studies

    My Son in in law was renting houses to such people in California...

    Wide open borders... perhaps we should just invite everybody in China to come to the USA..

    Agree many China people would go out and get a job...
    They aren't saying that 63% of those who access Welfare programs are non-citizens. Of the total non-citizens (and who really knows that number), 63% access Welfare programs. That might just mean their kids get free lunch at school...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    One thing that you can be sure of. If Obama had built a wall, the orange idiot would be very busy getting it torn down. He is the ultimate white supremacist.

    In the pages of history he will never be a pimple on Obama's ass.
    Trump doesn’t hold a candle to Bush #2. Obama did the same shit this guy is doing and every other president before him has done, take care of their base. They’ve bankrupted the country in the name of National Security. Obama could’ve ended the Iraq and Afghanistan wars but he didn’t, he gave it to Trump. The last time I looked, Obama added $8.58 trillion to the national debt.

    This was one of the longest economic expansions in the history of our country and not a single penny was spent on deficit reduction. The bill is coming like a freight train and it’s going to make 09 look good.


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