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  1. #861
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Actually you would be amazed. While I don't see it here, I have been places on the east coast where the day laborers line up outside Home Depot in the morning. Not buying any of his BS, but that is the truth of it. Looking out the window today one wonders why they want to be here....
    These days most of the landscapers have Mexican and Central American crews. So do the majority of roofing companies. Virtually every type of construction trade uses large numbers of workers from Mexico and Central America. Some of the landscapers found out the hard way what hiring Mexicans means. First they harassed all the non-Mexicans off the crews to make room for friends and relatives. That includes Salvadorans and Guatemalans. Then one day the landscape company owner notices his business declining. The Mexicans buy used lawn equipment, consumer grade to start with, and start offering the customers cheaper prices. They start by doing drop-offs, where they leave one or two workers and some equipment behind to do the work and get picked up on the way back. As the business grows they buy another used truck and trailer and tell the old boss goodbye.

    FWIW we have a lot of people not only from Mexico, but also large numbers from Guatemala, El Salvador, Brazil, and the Dominican Republic. Some are not here legally and some aren't nice people while others are. In my experience the Guatemalans seem to be the nicest and best behaved.

    What this huge influx has done is distort the labor market. What used to be entry level jobs for Americans are now filled largely by foreigners who stay in them and don't move up. This creates a problem for young people, especially in minority communities where dropout rates are high and the lower level jobs are the only ones they can qualify for.

    You mention day laborers. A couple years back I drove through a section of Framingham I hadn't been through in years. It was like driving through another country and there were many groups of men standing around in the early morning. I learned later that they were looking for day labor jobs and this is the scene every day. The majority of the day laborers are here illegally.

    ‘Sanctuary city’ question divides Framingham mayoral candidates - News - MetroWest Daily News, Framingham, MA - Framingham, MA

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  3. #862
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawnrs View Post
    It would be nice to limit the number of illegals coming into the country while I think most that enter here are harmless but maybe the principle of coming to another country legal is too much to ask. As for the drug issue it is a problem but I do not see any solution other than making the price of illegal drugs so cheap that the drug dealers will sell their drugs elsewhere to make a profit. It is big business to the drug cartels and America is the perfect place to make a lot of money off ignorant people.
    WTF? Have you ever seen an addict up close or the devastation it causes to themselves and their family? We're not talking about marijuana here, but some of the most life-destroying drugs on the planet. I know families that have lost adult children to fatal overdose and others whose children have spent years in and out of rehab.

    I seriously think far too many of you have led very sheltered lives or you wouldn't suggest legalizing all drugs or making them cheaper and more available. Hell, even some of my former classmates didn't survive the 60s and 70s unscathed and ended up living lives far below what they could have been. Alcohol does it's share of damage too and I've known more than a few alcoholics but from what I've seen drugs take people down harder and faster and cause brain damage quicker.

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  5. #863
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    These days most of the landscapers have Mexican and Central American crews. So do the majority of roofing companies. Virtually every type of construction trade uses large numbers of workers from Mexico and Central America. Some of the landscapers found out the hard way what hiring Mexicans means. First they harassed all the non-Mexicans off the crews to make room for friends and relatives. That includes Salvadorans and Guatemalans. Then one day the landscape company owner notices his business declining. The Mexicans buy used lawn equipment, consumer grade to start with, and start offering the customers cheaper prices. They start by doing drop-offs, where they leave one or two workers and some equipment behind to do the work and get picked up on the way back. As the business grows they buy another used truck and trailer and tell the old boss goodbye.

    FWIW we have a lot of people not only from Mexico, but also large numbers from Guatemala, El Salvador, Brazil, and the Dominican Republic. Some are not here legally and some aren't nice people while others are. In my experience the Guatemalans seem to be the nicest and best behaved.

    What this huge influx has done is distort the labor market. What used to be entry level jobs for Americans are now filled largely by foreigners who stay in them and don't move up. This creates a problem for young people, especially in minority communities where dropout rates are high and the lower level jobs are the only ones they can qualify for.

    You mention day laborers. A couple years back I drove through a section of Framingham I hadn't been through in years. It was like driving through another country and there were many groups of men standing around in the early morning. I learned later that they were looking for day labor jobs and this is the scene every day. The majority of the day laborers are here illegally.

    ‘Sanctuary city’ question divides Framingham mayoral candidates - News - MetroWest Daily News, Framingham, MA - Framingham, MA
    Looks like your landscapers are doing what every group on these shores has always done.
    Italians, Irish, German...out west the different groups of asians.

    Work, expand, work for yourself. Become your own boss. Take care of your own family.

    Why don't you call ICE on those illegal day laborers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    Just remember, most people coming here are legal when the arrive, but let their visa expire.
    That "most people" comment is deceptive. Estimates for recent years range from 40% to 60% of the illegal population. That still means that in those same years 40% to 60% of the illegal population arrived by illegally crossing the border.

    Visa Overstays By The Numbers: 7 Things You Need To Know About A Festering Immigration Controversy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    That "most people" comment is deceptive. Estimates for recent years range from 40% to 60% of the illegal population. That still means that in those same years 40% to 60% of the illegal population arrived by illegally crossing the border.

    Visa Overstays By The Numbers: 7 Things You Need To Know About A Festering Immigration Controversy
    You just don't care about them because they are Euros.
    Not scary brown people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy2 View Post
    To be able to weaken the drug cartels,
    Has anybody seen a study on how much legal weed in the US has effected the
    amount of marijuana coming in from Mexico???

    I know when I drive to Colorado, its Texas plates, Texas plates, Texas plates all the way
    to Trinidad (the first town in Colorado) and they ALL get off the highway.. I might have
    gotten off the highway once or twice there myself, and guess where all the Texas vehicles
    are?? Right in front of the weed stores.. Funny watching a bunch of cowboys pile out of
    a pickup truck (BigHorn Edition) and start taking pictures of each other in front of the
    weed store signs. Cowboys flashing the peace sign, you don't see that very often.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobw View Post
    Has anybody seen a study on how much legal weed in the US has effected the
    amount of marijuana coming in from Mexico???

    I know when I drive to Colorado, its Texas plates, Texas plates, Texas plates all the way
    to Trinidad (the first town in Colorado) and they ALL get off the highway.. I might have
    gotten off the highway once or twice there myself, and guess where all the Texas vehicles
    are?? Right in front of the weed stores.. Funny watching a bunch of cowboys pile out of
    a pickup truck (BigHorn Edition) and start taking pictures of each other in front of the
    weed store signs. Cowboys flashing the peace sign, you don't see that very often.
    It's actually something of a problem with conventions.
    People who don't smoke have no clue how high they are about to get.

    There's a serious education program in place.

    The worst is the kid cowboys from the stock show...
    They get liquored up at the strip club, walk next door to the weed shop.
    Then spend the next 14 hours hurling.

    Poor kids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    WTF? Have you ever seen an addict up close or the devastation it causes to themselves and their family? We're not talking about marijuana here, but some of the most life-destroying drugs on the planet. I know families that have lost adult children to fatal overdose and others whose children have spent years in and out of rehab.

    I seriously think far too many of you have led very sheltered lives or you wouldn't suggest legalizing all drugs or making them cheaper and more available. Hell, even some of my former classmates didn't survive the 60s and 70s unscathed and ended up living lives far below what they could have been. Alcohol does it's share of damage too and I've known more than a few alcoholics but from what I've seen drugs take people down harder and faster and cause brain damage quicker.
    the wtf is how you think prohibition has anything to do with preventing any of the misery you (and any thinking person) would wish we didn't have.

    Explain - wtf does not wanting the misery have to do with the fact that prohibition accomplishes nothing .....other than guarantee billions go to the violent criminal supply chain?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    the wtf is how you think prohibition has anything to do with preventing any of the misery you (and any thinking person) would wish we didn't have.

    Explain - wtf does not wanting the misery have to do with the fact that prohibition accomplishes nothing .....other than guarantee billions go to the violent criminal supply chain?
    Liquor is a real monster of a drug.
    Banning it did nothing to change that at all.
    Still plenty to go areound, except poisoned and making the cartels money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    WTF? Have you ever seen an addict up close or the devastation it causes to themselves and their family? We're not talking about marijuana here, but some of the most life-destroying drugs on the planet. I know families that have lost adult children to fatal overdose and others whose children have spent years in and out of rehab.

    I seriously think far too many of you have led very sheltered lives or you wouldn't suggest legalizing all drugs or making them cheaper and more available. Hell, even some of my former classmates didn't survive the 60s and 70s unscathed and ended up living lives far below what they could have been. Alcohol does it's share of damage too and I've known more than a few alcoholics but from what I've seen drugs take people down harder and faster and cause brain damage quicker.
    One of your truest and best posts. Yes, I have seen addiction up close. A family member. Today she is just a shell or her former self. She lost everything,including me(now she is my ex-wife). Narcotics are really hard to beat. They consume your every waking moment. Either taking them or figuring out how to get them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazygoat View Post
    One of your truest and best posts. Yes, I have seen addiction up close. A family member. Today she is just a shell or her former self. She lost everything,including me(now she is my ex-wife). Narcotics are really hard to beat. They consume your every waking moment. Either taking them or figuring out how to get them.
    And you can live through that withdrawal...alcohol and benzo withdrawal can actually kill you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    WTF?

    I seriously think far too many of you have led very sheltered lives or you wouldn't suggest legalizing all guns or making them cheaper and more available.
    Same logic applies, eh Scotty?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    And you can live through that withdrawal...alcohol and benzo withdrawal can actually kill you.
    Yes she did.But she lost her mind. Today she has hallucinations, she looks like death warmed over, can't focus. Life long repercussions. All this started with pain pills after a operation to remove her appendix, a common everyday operation. Just goes to shows how easy it is to get hooked on opiates. Drugs are the number one problem that America has today. (Well, that and social media which has a phone permanently attached to millions of the younger generation.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazygoat View Post
    Drugs are the number one problem that America has today.
    i don't know I'd put them #1, but agree they're a top issue. If you were in charge what would you do to stop/reduce the damage and ruined lives they result in?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    i don't know I'd put them #1, but agree they're a top issue. If you were in charge what would you do to stop/reduce the damage and ruined lives they result in?
    I know I am going catch hell for this answer but here goes. Usually I'm not this hard on things but I would cut off the supply. Scorched earth policy. Burn, kill, maim all producers, runners, suppliers. Everybody in the chain all the way down to the users. For the users, one shot at rehab, after that you're gone. The addicts are such a drain on our society its not funny.

    O.K. everybody, have a go at me. I'm tough skinned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazygoat View Post
    Yes she did.But she lost her mind. Today she has hallucinations, she looks like death warmed over, can't focus. Life long repercussions. All this started with pain pills after a operation to remove her appendix, a common everyday operation. Just goes to shows how easy it is to get hooked on opiates. Drugs are the number one problem that America has today. (Well, that and social media which has a phone permanently attached to millions of the younger generation.)
    She had already lost her mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazygoat View Post
    I know I am going catch hell for this answer but here goes. Usually I'm not this hard on things but I would cut off the supply. Scorched earth policy. Burn, kill, maim all producers, runners, suppliers. Everybody in the chain all the way down to the users. For the users, one shot at rehab, after that you're gone. The addicts are such a drain on our society its not funny.

    O.K. everybody, have a go at me. I'm tough skinned.
    my take on that is its an expression of your justified anger but not really a practical solution. Basically what it is saying is tougher sanctions. Not practical in the sense that we're not quite at summary executions for non violent things and even if you could, no matter how many billions you spent trying find them, the rewards so high, so long as there is prohibition there'll be supply.

    Can we agree that current prohibition is not effective? I mean if you consider it the number one problem despite prohibition and war against it for decades, it seems an obviously conclusion that that approach, prohibition and war, doesn't work, agreed? Based on the small percentage estimate they think they do catch, I think it fair to instead of call it "ineffective" call it a "failure" -give the lives ruined and damage done despite prohibition and a war against it.

    illions are thrown at it yet you can't dislodge it from being the your #1 problem....so isn't working. Remember the definition of insanity - keep doing the same thing and expect a different result?

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazygoat View Post
    I know I am going catch hell for this answer but here goes. Usually I'm not this hard on things but I would cut off the supply. Scorched earth policy. Burn, kill, maim all producers, runners, suppliers. Everybody in the chain all the way down to the users. For the users, one shot at rehab, after that you're gone. The addicts are such a drain on our society its not funny.

    O.K. everybody, have a go at me. I'm tough skinned.
    But how would we replace all the Doctors???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    my take on that is its an expression of your justified anger but not really a practical solution. Basically what it is saying is tougher sanctions. Not practical in the sense that we're not quite at summary executions for non violent things and even if you could, no matter how many billions you spent trying find them, the rewards so high, so long as there is prohibition there'll be supply.

    Can we agree that current prohibition is not effective? I mean if you consider it the number one problem despite prohibition and war against it for decades, it seems an obviously conclusion that that approach, prohibition and war, doesn't work, agreed? Based on the small percentage estimate they think they do catch, I think it fair to instead of call it "ineffective" call it a "failure" -give the lives ruined and damage done despite prohibition and a war against it.

    illions are thrown at it yet you can't dislodge it from being the your #1 problem....so isn't working. Remember the definition of insanity - keep doing the same thing and expect a different result?
    Yes we can agree it is not effective. That's because we are throwing the billions in the wrong places. Like I said, scorched earth. If we burnt down the places and the people that were producing it, it would be a much more effective use of the money. I would hazard a guess that once it got to 50%, the other 50% would figure out it isn't worth dying for. Fear is a powerful motivator. The "war" against it has been a joke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobw View Post
    But how would we replace all the Doctors???
    I didn't say I had it all figured out!


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