Industrial past as sculpture. - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackrainstorm View Post
    See, but in the examples given, you have actually recombined various items to make new and interesting creations of your own design. Even if it is just meant for whimsy, you have directly altered something to display your vision to others. As far as I can tell, the schmuck featured at Tate has just taken items and put them on platforms. He has not put any labor into creating something new and unique.

    What would have been awesome would have been taking the machines unaltered, and making sculptures of stylized/interpreted people toiling away at the machines and implements. I think that would have had great impact.

    As an aside, I do think that the industrial design incorporated into older machine tools and logos is pretty awesome. I would love to see some of that art deco through mid-century modern aesthetics brought forward into modern machines.
    I love the beauty of old machinery also. I like your idea.
    I just wish there was attention given to assemblages where each individual part was made during the art process, not just sourced and then bent, cut or welded together.

    I feel like there is more credibility if each piece is made by the artist.

    Most aggravating: When curators saw an art piece I made and said, “Cool! is that part from a lawnmower engine?”

    Me: Um, no, I machined and formed and patina’d each piece from straight bar”. All purposefully as I want them to compliment the art inherent in line, in process, in industry!

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  3. #22
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    American Pacemaker | Cincinnati Arts

    I think this is a legit art piece.

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOldCar View Post
    American Pacemaker | Cincinnati Arts

    I think this is a legit art piece.
    Well, this confirms my suspicions, my shop, yard and sheds should be a museum.

    Oldcar, checked out some of your work, repairs and restorations. Beautiful work.

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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by memphisjed View Post
    Performance art (music, tv, plays, dance...) is supposed to be entertainment. If you get entertainment out of it, it has succeeded as a piece of art.
    Naw, that doesn't pass muster. Lots of things entertain but that doesn't mean I'd consider them art. Little kids, a good joke, a good hockey game , movie or TV show, Broadway play, round of darts, beers with the boys, a gourmet meal, working away in my shop, good spy novel. imo, all entertain but it is not art.

    Spinning it around, if I did accept your definition (I dont) there's lots crap TV, movies and broadway - would it only be art if I found it entertaining?

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  9. #25
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    Ah, that is even more impressive. I didn’t really understand that you were making all those parts from scratch.

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackrainstorm View Post
    Ah, that is even more impressive. I didn’t really understand that you were making all those parts from scratch.
    It’s my mission in life to rage against found art and show the beauty in accuracy mixed with form. Machined parts, punched holes and cleanly bent sheet metal have always fascinated me. As a kid, I always wanted to make stuff “look like it was made by pros” or factory looking. My sketches, designs, oil paintings, acrylics and watercolors have honestly been great, a real talent. BUT I’ve always felt those methods were just not quite at the top of creation. A bit twisted in my thinking, but I think it is valid.

    I also have issue with “craft” or “trade” terminology. Even “fabricator” cheapens (in my humble opinion) what we can do. How about “creation” or “creators”? I like that term better.

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  13. #27
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    Philosophically speaking, I have issue with most "art" and "artists" as I feel people who are contributing physical things to the world (like us manufacturing types) should do so in a way noone else could, while also doing so in a way that the next guy can carry on.

    Putting a bagel on a plate and putting it in an art gallery isn't art. It's an idea, sure, but it took zero effort and is guaranteed to alienate most people who "just don't get it". Put it in front of a person who eats it and the world is 1000 times better than it sitting in an art gallery.

    Now actually creating something out of raw goods, taking an idea of something that has never been done or seen before, and physically manifesting it in a way that will benefit people with a NORMAL state of mind physically, mentally, or spiritually, that's worth your time. That's true art, wither you consider your self a an artist or a machinist.

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  15. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    I suppose my shop is a art gallery now...

    Britain's Industrial History Reimagined for the Tate Commission

    Invalid URL
    Everything he makes looks like shit.

    A key influence on Nelson as he considered what to do for the commission was a news article from the Morning Post reporting on King George VI’s opening of the Duveens in July 1937...
    Nope, his key influence is methamphetamine.

  16. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOldCar View Post
    S E L F C O N T R O L

    Deep breaths, deep breaths....

    This is a personally sensitive issue to me, as I do the art thang.

    I have issue with “found art”. BIGTIME.

    These installations shown above at least have form and relatively minimum mods; I’m not saying I dislike them. My problem is with the found art fad infecting legitimate fine art shows and museums.

    You know the yard art trinkets for sale in West Yellowstone? A bison made of bike chains? Exhaust pipes booger-welded and Rustoleum rattle-canned into a green frog sculpture?

    And don’t get me started on pistons, camshafts and gears welded into anything from a desktop motorcycle toy to an animal...

    This, coupled with “steampunk” has been “trending now” (HATE that term) for too long; the fact that it gets in to fine art shows literally leaves me enraged.

    DEEEEEEEP BREATHS.

    Yes, art is subjective. I just don’t understand why found art can bypass all quality and legitimacy rules that bronze sculpting, oil painting, etc, must meet.

    I believe in what I call Process Art (I hope everyone is clapping for me, as I came up with that on my own ). That is (my) style of celebrating/joining the precision and beauty of machined, formed, punched, pressed, hammered and filed materials with form and beauty.
    Booger welds don’t fit here. Flap-disc grinder swirls with a cheap overdose of clearcoat don’t fit here (HOLY CRAP, every other lazer cut crapola sign has that finish here in Utah. How long did it take, 15 minutes?!?!?!??).
    Rustic is everywhere! BOO!

    How about creating the parts you assemble, instead of welding lawnmower pistons into a cutesy horse sculpture? And describe the process????

    OR, on the flip side, enter an entire lathe as an art installation by itself, WITHOUT anything attached to it that detracts from the RAW, REAL history of industry. I’m talking real industry, NOT “industrial art”.

    Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeew. I had to let that out.

    If anyone wants, I can post a pic or two of my dorky art with an explanation of what I’m trying to convey. Not for attention! Only to explain what I try to preach, or why I find beauty/form in functional stuff. BY ITSSELF.

    There is a small fish darting about in a deep stream in all this.

    Art seems to be a reflection of something present in a different form.
    Simple (old) portraits are now taken as ‘fine art’ and great pains are taken to point out the enigmatic pose, the universality ‘captured’ by the artist.

    I suppose one must question if art even exits if not recognized by any other than the creator of the piece.

    We celebrate when a body of work is ‘discovered’ by the institution of art acceptance and pushed onto the dais.
    Is art only present when we say so?

    I would say art is a process.
    That process is a extraction of experience to creation.
    That process fully exists in the absence of a product.
    It exists in the stoke of a pen imagined but not put to paper.
    Forms recognized but not created.

    Every single one of us participate in the process of artistic expression in our response to our experience.

    Art doesn’t only exist when sanctioned by others.
    I would say art exists when it doesn’t even objectively exist as a object before us.

    But perhaps that is what ‘art’ and the artist as creator are.
    That person capable of putting to form the artistic expression contained within.

    We all perhaps experience art but few are artists.



    Off- I have to hit the shop and recore some boats decking.
    When I’m done- it won’t be art...

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  18. #30
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    Our view is a bit different.

    We term our self as an artist but not the type this thread is related to.

    We gather things...estate sales and other sources of collections of "things".

    When we have a problem to solve or spare time the creative side gathers some of these collected things in our mind and an image appears of something we can create.

    Now remembering where the bits are and figuring out how to create the product.

    The last was bird feeders made from garbage can lids.

    Large lid on top covering small one on bottom.

    Simple and not art in itself but the process is what some of us relate to as an art.

    Some folks can see something in their mind and create it, that is the art part, the result is a manufactured item, that may or may not be art but the product of the artist.


    True art really cannot be a trained or learned skill, it is something you are born with.

    The abilities are improved with training.

    What me mean is someone who is a true painter or "fine artist" has no clue really how to perform the tasks but they learn fast while someone who does not have it in them will never be able to get there no matter how hard they try.

    Fits many modern entertainers...late night folks fit this description...Bob Hope they are not...
    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Quiring View Post
    someone who does not have it in them will never be able to get there no matter how hard they try
    You talkin about me...lol

    58821b8f-699a-45f9-98dd-ae13458e2137.jpg

    There are all sorts of inquiries possible- is true artistic expression possible outside of technical mastery.
    Is a capable forger of the great works a “artist”?
    A fluent illustrator same question.

    I would say yes to the first case while no to the second.
    I would say that art is the product of a expressive process.
    In the absence of that process there is no art- just talented human mimeograph machines.

    That is the impetus for a gradual migration of the recognition of what is art I would say.
    At some point even the most valid expressive works become stale if simply replicated.
    The underpinnings which created the initial relevance have shifted.

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  21. #32
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    In a lot of art the art is not in making it but selling it
    Great respect for some of those artists

    Peter

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  23. #33
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    In a similar vein..
    YouTube

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    When I was just getting started in the trade, my Dad and I worked together in his shop. Mostly P.I.molds with some gunsmithing, no biggie.

    He has a card in Pattern making and we knew the last of the pattern/model shops in the area.

    One day we visited a pattern shop to say hi (old friends) and to grab a few outdated wood patterns and coreprints to showoff at my school shop class.

    We brought home half a dozen and shined then up with paste wax.....Holy crap, these things were beautiful.

    In the years that followed, this gentleman and his daughter would lug a few dozen to local art fairs and make a killing.

    If you ever have a chance to see a really well done wood pattern, you'll understand.

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  26. #35
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    I read in a photography magazine about a photo gallery owner who reserved a space for new, unshown photographers. He allowed them wide latitude in subject matter but insisted on good workmanship. Telling him you wanted the dust spots for effect didn't fly. I feel much the same way about art. The Saint Louis Art Museum had a Serra "sculpture" that consisted of several 4X8 steel plates welded together at angles. He didn't even bother to scrape the splatter off. That is not art; just a con job foisted on a gullible public.

    When I saw Rembrant's "The Night Watch" the museum had you walk down a dimly lit corridor and turn through a door at the end, placing you where it had maximum effect. It was stunning, almost like a physical blow. That is art. Most modern art isn't. The only consolation is that time will take the same toll that it has for thousands of years. I suspect that there was as much trash generated in Rembrant's time of Beethoven's, but it has mercifully fallen by the wayside.

    Bill

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  28. #36
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    Was in Park City in May. Walked into one of the fine art dealer galleries and there stood steel plate with circle scraps welded into a tree or flower. Circles you find in the scrap metal bin where they plasma cut holes in some 1/8” steel plate. They have the pierce mark!

    Grinder swirlies. Spray paint.

    Make it stop!

    “He didn't even bother to scrape the splatter off. That is not art; just a con job foisted on a gullible public.”

    Couldn’t possibly say it better than that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    When I saw Rembrant's "The Night Watch" the museum had you walk down a dimly lit corridor and turn through a door at the end, placing you where it had maximum effect. It was stunning, almost like a physical blow. That is art. Most modern art isn't.
    When Guernica was in New York, it was something like that. They had the place arranged so you came around a corner and wham ! right in your face. It was literally breathtaking. Photos can't do it justice. I can remember it to this day, and that was more than a few weeks ago ...

    Also modern

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    Thousands of years ago the very first artist was born and a few seconds later the critic! One man's art is just crap to someone else. FWIW I think art should show the skill of the artist. If you look up the word artist the 3rd def talks of making nice looking things but the 1st def talks of skill. when you become highly skilled then you become an artist. For instance if your a good race car driver your just that but if your one of the best then you become an artist as a driver. It applies to just about everything.

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  33. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casady Machine View Post
    For instance if your a good race car driver your just that but if your one of the best then you become an artist as a driver. It applies to just about everything.
    But what do you call it when the Driver is driving a work of art? There have been many examples of this.

    Schumacher/Ferarri, Vettle/Red Bull, Clark/ Lotus, And I won't even start with the true art/drivers......WRC. (when you need to have your blood type on the side of the car, you're officially a baddass/artist.)

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