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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Are you trying to say you don't like salty pepper spare ribs ? C'mon now, come clean !

    Have you ever had basi tudou ? Cubes of potato, served with a light caramelized sugar sauce sizzling hot. You take a cube and dunk it in your beer to get a roasted potato encapsulated in crackly sugar sauce. You should try.
    This does not sound very good for the cardio EG.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    I figured as much EG, it must be a good way to stay out of jail actually working for the outfit who does the work for the famous prison.
    Seems like I didn't make myself clear. Prison Industry Authority runs the programs inside California prisons that use inmates at $.50/hr to produce products which they sell in the outside world. I am pretty sure there are similar programs in most other states.

    To me, this makes the snivelling about 'prison labor' more than a little hypocritical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    This does not sound very good for the cardio EG.
    It's true, a lot of Chinese food is not so healthy for you. An awful lot of it is fried. But it's pretty fun to eat, especially in a group.

    While we're on the subject, have you learned how to make any dishes yet ? I believe the locations are in Anji, which is a fun place to go. If you can tell me what's wrong with her drunken shrimp, I'll give you a free pass to say anything you want for six whole months. No contradiction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBAER View Post
    Canada's leading newspaper the Globe and Mail (the closest thing we have to the NYT) has a whole section devoted to the future of China this weekend. I found the little segments featuring regular Chinese people's cares and concerns very interesting, it left me hopeful that China and the West will find enough common ground to co-exist peacefully. The article that used ball bearing production to explain the challenge of climbing up the technology foodchain was really well done and more relevant to this forum.

    China lags on innovation - can it catch up? - The Globe and Mail
    There is paywall but hopefully they let Americans read a couple articles for free.

    I have always been amazed at the amazing low the prices of the Chinese bearings that are used in consumer goods.

    Stan
    Nothing interesting in that article. Just filling up space.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hvnlymachining View Post
    last year I bought a batch of cheap Chinese bearings for a conveyor roller job. One in ten bearings locked up just rotating them on my finger, about another one in ten locked up after install on a slip fit, after some measuring I found the races to be oval and a quite noticeable click while spinning the assembled units giving the impression of pits in the race. didn't bother with disassembly and inspection, the failed bearings just went to the scrap barrel. Any time I can avoid the Asian stuff I do, just so I don't have to wonder if I'll have do the job again tomorrow and possible lose a customer.
    Doesn't mean a thing. What EXACTLY is "batch of cheap Chinese bearings" ??? There seems to be MANY bearing manufs in China and (!) Indian made bearings sold as being made in China. Some are complete rubbish. Others, after many MANY hundreds of g/box repairs gave us better results than FAG and SKF. In particular, I had endless problems with FAG, some with SKF and I never had an issue with KOYO or my fav. NACHI. Years ago we had endless problems with "chinese" (?) bearings we kept replacing in some industrial fans. The kind of stuff you describe. Sealed bearings. We traced those problems to the bearings being assembled dirty - lots of tiny metal particles inside. I will not discuss this on a public forum but the SKF/FAG etc etched on bearings bought from proper agents tells NOTHING about where ( and when...) the bearing was actually made. Most come from China anyway...

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Uh huh.

    Have you had to deal with full priced automotive wheel bearings
    that you can only get from China, and they don't last 30k miles ?
    No. I'd be curious for a specific example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Even with javascript turned off, they don't let people read for free. Oh well.

    However .... I have no faith in this writer. Went and looked at the titles to the rest of his articles, they are stupid.

    "Can China make its people happy ?" -- is this guy a moron ? Does he walk in the streets, go to work, have girlfriends, go out eating horse dick and sheep balls with the guys ? play mah jiang ? go to ktv ? eat ? drink ? is he blind, deaf, and stupid ? In my experience, Chinese people are happier than Americans, maybe similar to BC Canadians, and definitely more socially skilled. Much more socially adept, in fact. Happy ? Christ, the average noodle shop owner is happier than Bill Gates - and we won't even mention turtleface Mitch McConnel.

    "Will China be the next world leader" -- obviously. 1.4 billion people, much bigger than the US and as of now, much smarter. A better question would be, does the world actually need "leaders" ? and does the Chinese government want to be anyone's "leader" ? From what I have seen over 30 years upclose and personal, they don't really care that much about the rest of the world. They want their own place to be coolaroonie and to not be bullied. If the rest of the world wants to follow, that's fine. if they don't, that's fine too. To them China is the center of the universe, the rest of you can imitate or go pound sand if you like, no skin off their nose.

    "Can robots offset China's population decrease?" -- another stupid stupid stupid question, a followon to that retarded infinite-growth crap that the so-called "economists" of the world peddle. Does this twat have a single functioning brain cell in his head ? The world worked fine -- better -- when there were a lot fewer people. Anything that reduces the population is good but these dipshit twelve-babies-per-family nitwits just can't get that small fact through their thick skulls.

    About bearings ... what does this dickcheese know about bearings ? He's a writer for a newspaper. A high-school level writer, at that. I've spent months in association with a plant manager for Kaydon, and a specialty bearing designer in Los Angeles. When those guys have comments, I listen. In some cases, they should listen to me instead, the aiyi running one of them out of the country with false 'broken marriage promise' claims had me in stitches I told him how to behave but oh noes, he's from Ohio (and a Republican, sigh), he knew what he was doing ... this is kind of a problem with you guys. You think you know everything, when the truth is you don't really know shit. Most of the world is not Ohio, or Kansas, or even San Francisco.

    China ain't the US. It was hilarious, but along the way, want to hear some stories about US bearing failures ? Helicopters falling out of the sky because of bean-counter decisions, for instance ? Screwups are not limted to one country. And SKF, FAG, NSK, those guys all have factories in Ningbo. If you have a problem with junk, it's because you bought junk. Junk is also available from Detroit .... or was, until Detroit went tits-up.

    And the "innovation" magic word ... what a crock. There hasn't been any real "innovation" for the past fifty years. Besides which, pussy has been the same for the past 100,000 years. That's what actually matters, the rest is decoration.

    Anyway, I wouldn't believe a word off this shithead's pen. In fact I hope he was one of the so-called journalists they tossed, because he's a worthless ignorant lying prick.

    Another thing I wonder about .... what is the deal with these people ? And papers, too ? Does the local press in Zambia send over some high school kid to write about Chicago ? The Times, the Post, this Globe thing .... why ? wtf is their problem ? China is China, they run themselves, they make stuff, they sell stuff, why doesn't the Times, for example, try to uncover evildoers in Newark instead of worrying about shit halfway round the world that doesn't involve them in any way ? It's like those gossipy old ladies, their husband hasn't had a piece in twenty years but they're all concerned about Mrs Johnson's skirts are too short .... it's fucking stupid and embarrassing.



    Self-righteous a bit, aren't we ?

    Let's start with prison labor. My shop was across the freeway from San Quentin for several years. I did a fair amount of repair work for -- beter sit down ! -- Prison Industry Authority. They even have a website now ! Here's the first sentence from wikipedia "The California Prison Industry Authority (CALPIA) manages over 100 manufacturing, service, and consumable industries within the 35 California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation(CDCR) institutions."

    If "the civilized world" outlawed this a century ago, someone better tell California. And Washington. And I bet most other states.

    Oh, but it's different ! when we do it !

    Yeah. Right.

    I've never understood this outrage. These people are in prison for a reason (some of the stories the San Quentin guy told were eye-opening). If the state or feds need stuff, why not let prisoners work ? If you're a prisoner, would you rather sit on your ass in a concrete box all day, or at least get to make $.50/hr and stamp out license plates ? I know which one I'd choose ...

    Beyond that, you may not remember chain gangs, but you have certainly seen the guys in orange jumpers cleaing up along the roads ...

    Pot -> kettle, much ?

    "Total disregard for human rights" .... like shooting niggers in the back ? Standing on a guy's neck for ten minutes over a supposedly fake $20 ? Blowing people away in their beds because you don't like their politics ? Blasting into the wrong house and killing anyone on sight because you fucked up ? then walking away scot-free ? Burning a couple hundred people to death because of an after-the-blaze unsubstantiated rumour that someone, somewhere kissed a sixteen year old ? Patrice Lumumba, Auguste Pinochet, Marcos, Diem, Pahlevi ? You have such a spotless "human rights" record, both internationally and domestically, I am surprised you can even write those words. I'd be red in the face like a monkey's ass if someone forced me to spout that crap. Have you no shame ?

    I'm really like, what's wrong with you people ? Is it because you can't do a damned thing yourselves anymore, like those old hag gossips, so you just hang out in a group swapping nasty lies ? What China does is none of your goddamned business. Maybe straighten out your own screwedup shithole first, then start giving lectures ?

    wtf, over ?



    Thanks
    Peter

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    Stop all this Asian Hate...It's just wong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Seems like I didn't make myself clear. Prison Industry Authority runs the programs inside California prisons that use inmates at $.50/hr to produce products which they sell in the outside world. I am pretty sure there are similar programs in most other states.

    To me, this makes the snivelling about 'prison labor' more than a little hypocritical.


    It's true, a lot of Chinese food is not so healthy for you. An awful lot of it is fried. But it's pretty fun to eat, especially in a group.

    While we're on the subject, have you learned how to make any dishes yet ? I believe the locations are in Anji, which is a fun place to go. If you can tell me what's wrong with her drunken shrimp, I'll give you a free pass to say anything you want for six whole months. No contradiction.
    Everyone can say whatever they want yet they probably should never do so. There are consequences. MyselfvI am not a well accomplished cook. I get by yet complex meals under the gun with small hungry children about is for a expert. I have found it very interesting now and so I am learning well. It is simple things that I make now. I like watching relatives by marriage cook and they tell me what they are doing and why. Quite good food she makes.

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    It is interesting to realize that precision mass produced machining is less the 200 years old. Starret only invented the modern micrometer in 1890. With improvemnts to follow.
    It is hard to believe that any country, including China, is not introducing basic improvements in how precision machining is done today. High speed steel came out about 100 years ago. Carbon steel tools are still being made today.
    Ball bearing are all metric because France invented them after Napoleon promoted the metric system of measurement in France.
    Bill D

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    I have a customer in the oil cold-pressing business. His machines use a particular roller thrust bearing, and typical life was about 3 to 4 years. I got a 'buy' on some cheap bearings from China but it seemed as though the heat treat was incorrect because they all spalled and deteriorated in a short 2 month period. The dealer would not stand behind the product.

    I guess the clue was in the price: if it's only 25% the cost of normal, then expect inferior results. Still, you gotta try it to find out.

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    Any of you guys ever pay attention to all the various tolerance classes and quality levels? Those are long established, internationally recognized, and easy to verify—which is why Chinese bearing factories sell a lot of bearings for things other than commodity products like skateboards or fidget spinners. Generalizing that they're all sloppy (or case-hardened rather than through-hardened, to cite one popular stereotype) is a cop-out response to the Chinese having driven the overpriced union-featherbedded US bearing industry to a well-deserved grave by supplying good products at reasonable cost. Bearings aren't made by hand. They use the same Japanese machines as everybody else in the world, except that in China one guy will run a row of them. In Connecticut they had work rules preventing that (yup, past tense). There's your labor cost-component right there.

    That said, I contract directly with Chinese factories for production runs of bearings and have been satisfied for years. That's not remotely the same as Googling a bearing number and buying it off ebay. That's pot luck, and one shouldn't generalize from that experience.

    Please understand, I am commenting from a technical and economic viewpoint, not a sociological or political one. For all we know, the Chinese bearing industry could be supplanted tomorrow by the up-and-coming Elbonian bearing industry, although that seems unlikely. At one time it looked like Turkey was gonna be on the map. Although, Elbonia or Zanzibar, they'd have to be really cheap to pry me away from the Chinese companies with whom I have a longstanding relationship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwrench View Post
    Please understand, I am commenting from a technical and economic viewpoint, not a sociological or political one. For all we know, the Chinese bearing industry could be supplanted tomorrow by the up-and-coming Elbonian bearing industry, although that seems unlikely. At one time it looked like Turkey was gonna be on the map. Although, Elbonia or Zanzibar, they'd have to be really cheap to pry me away from the Chinese companies with whom I have a longstanding relationship.
    Elbonia dropped out of the bearing biz when they discovered their mud was more valuable sold as a cosmetic rather than as a bearing lube.

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    Chinese ball bearings are used extensively in small gearboxes (300 watts) I've designed for an Ag equipment OEM. Must be at least 50,000 of them in production so far. Not a single failure directly attributed to the bearing that I'm aware of. And these ball bearings are $1 or less each, commodity sizes. I can look up the numbers if interested.

    I admit, I was hesitant at first. How can a bearing for less than $1 do the job as well as a $5-10 bearing? But they do just fine in this case. Each gearbox has 4 or more bearings so the cost difference adds up in a hurry.

    Edit: upon reflection, I would not be surprised if the total in production is 250,000 at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwrench View Post
    They use the same Japanese machines as everybody else in the world, except that in China one guy will run a row of them. In Connecticut they had work rules preventing that (yup, past tense). There's your labor cost-component right there.
    Have you ever been to Ningbo to see ? If you knew anything, you'd find that your preconceived notions don't match the facts.

    In reality, kind of funny, we used to laugh that one US guy would run four machines while it took four Chinese guys to run one machine. They don't work very hard. Food and housing are suppplied by the company. They get paid thirteen months for a twelve month year. There's a gazillion holidays. Once past the 90 day probation period, everyone gets a one year contract. After three years it's very difficult to fire anyone. After five years it's impossible. Work rules for the average Chinese person are ten times better than they ever were for any American.

    Sorry. You're off in lalaland. The difference is not labor costs. It's the costs and goals and management of the entire society that make the difference.

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    Default Interesting article about Chinese ball bearing production

    Interesting hearing how the Chinese worker has it so good.

    I guess that’s why 60 Minutes did a piece a few years back about how lots of Chinese factories are surrounded by nets, to prevent suicides by the workers jumping off the buildings.

    For many, suicide was a better future than the perpetual 12 hour days / 6 days per week of monotonous, mind-numbing, manual-labor, low-value-added factory work that the rest of the industrialized world wanted to get rid of….

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post
    Interesting hearing how the Chinese worker has it so good.
    Labor law is online, go look it up.

    I guess that’s why 60 Minutes did a piece a few years back about how lots of Chinese factories are surrounded by nets, to prevent suicides by the workers jumping off the buildings.
    60 Minutes is full of shit and you're a certified idiot if you believe that crap. I'm only surprised they didn't give Janet Cooke a job after she left the Washington Post. She was a Pulitzer prize-winner and all, ya know.

    btw, the Golden Gate Bridge just spent 25 mil or so on a sucide prevention barrier ...

    For many, suicide was a better future than the perpetual 12 hour days / 6 days per week of monotonous, mind-numbing, manual-labor, low-value-added factory work that the rest of the industrialized world wanted to get rid of….
    And that's why you're all bitching that Chinese companies stepped in to take that work ? Have your cake and eat it too, a little ?

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    We got the same crap here ....bridges with millions of dollars spent on mesh to stop psychos jumping off to get some attention......We also got the phenomenon of millions wasted on meshing to stop teens throwing rocks onto traffic below.....Back in the day ,if the cops heard someone was throwing rocks,suitable correction was applied ,and no more rock throwing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Labor law is online, go look it up.


    60 Minutes is full of shit and you're a certified idiot if you believe that crap. I'm only surprised they didn't give Janet Cooke a job after she left the Washington Post. She was a Pulitzer prize-winner and all, ya know.

    btw, the Golden Gate Bridge just spent 25 mil or so on a sucide prevention barrier ...


    And that's why you're all bitching that Chinese companies stepped in to take that work ? Have your cake and eat it too, a little ?
    Chinese bearings...

    I don't buy anything from China that cost more than $19.99.

    That is the "price point" that their whole economy is based on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Labor law is online, go look it up.


    60 Minutes is full of shit and you're a certified idiot if you believe that crap. I'm only surprised they didn't give Janet Cooke a job after she left the Washington Post. She was a Pulitzer prize-winner and all, ya know.

    btw, the Golden Gate Bridge just spent 25 mil or so on a sucide prevention barrier ...


    And that's why you're all bitching that Chinese companies stepped in to take that work ? Have your cake and eat it too, a little ?
    Oh boy we got the night shift EG...Must be missing his homeland. Take a deep breath...soon..the virus will pass and you will be back home.

    Heck you might even be granted special privilege by the CCP for spouting the party line!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwrench View Post
    In Connecticut they had work rules preventing that (yup, past tense). ..
    For the very most items, yes, past tense.
    But!
    There are still a few left here in this state that is surviving off of the orders that require the supply and sorting of balls in 1 millionth increments.
    IOW, Your matched set of 4 Ultra Precision bearing may have 97% of it's balls come from China, but it is that remaining 3% that makes it "Ultra Precision".

    Yupp, reliable flashing, grinding and lapping of carefully selected source material, which is then accurately sorted in 1 mil increments.
    From an outsider looking at the process, it is insanely crude, dirty, unsophisticated and grungy.
    But, it also completely misses the incredible details behind the scenes, which were acquired over many, many decades in this state.


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