Large diameter threaded rods - where to buy?
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    Default Large diameter threaded rods - where to buy?

    I've tried Googling but no luck. Where can long, large diameter threaded rods (around 100mm / 4" and up to 10m / 30 feet long) be bought?

    Country of origin isn't crucial so it can just as well be the USA as China or some other country.

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    The larger diameter isn't near the 30' length problem considering stock bar is usually in 10 or 20 foot. Threading is threading however it's done.

    Good luck,
    Matt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_Maguire View Post
    The larger diameter isn't near the 30' length problem considering stock bar is usually in 10 or 20 foot. Threading is threading however it's done.

    Good luck,
    Matt
    I know it's a problem and that's why I'm asking I don't know if threading is just "threading" at that length.

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    Might ask these folks. Diameter no problem, but I would suppose the length would at a minimum require a mill run just to acquire material

    All Thread — Baden Steelbar & Bolt Corp.

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    Depending on use you might be able to have 10’ sections welded before threading...or after with an appropriate guide.

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    Gordon -- curious to know what design wants a piece of all-thread 30' long? I've seen some pretty large diameter tie rods, but not threaded their entire length.

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    friction weld induction hT and then thread roll? I saw an astoundingly large through feed thread roll video the other day. Germany....

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    You could use a drill collar. They will be 31.5ft. 3-1/8, 4-3/4", 6" are standard sizes. I know they go up to 11". There may be others. It will have a 2" or so ID depending on who made it, if that is a problem. Material is 4145 generally for collars and 'monel' for non-mag applications used with MWD tools. (actually they use some sort of material called W1813N).

    They often add spiraling to the collars. The process is pretty similar to threading so I cant' see why threading won't work. It won't look like a ballscrew though

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    Gordon -- curious to know what design wants a piece of all-thread 30' long? I've seen some pretty large diameter tie rods, but not threaded their entire length.
    I can understand your curiosity but I'm not a liberty to say just now. I should be able to say in 2 weeks.

    As has been mentioned threading isn't the biggest problem but the length is.

    There is a very interesting story behind my question and I hope I don't end up having to sign some kind of "secrecy" agreement so I can't tell the story. It certainly isn't something I'd have designed.

    Maybe someone can come up with an answer to my original question. As also suggested two welded lengths might be a solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    Might ask these folks. Diameter no problem, but I would suppose the length would at a minimum require a mill run just to acquire material

    All Thread — Baden Steelbar & Bolt Corp.
    That looks interesting - thanks.

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    How is the client going to tighten them ?

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    Something this large should involve an engineer who will write specs for material strength, thread tolerance, and corrosion properties/treatment. You'd want certifications for material, (likely) heat treat, and NDT, especially if any welding is needed.

    Is there an engineer involved? If not, you should get one into the mix.

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    I got some b7 alltread from these guys a while ago, probably similar to the baden bolt link above.

    All Thread Rods - Portland Bolt

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    How is the client going to tighten them ?
    The only reason to require all thread is if you intend to use it all??? Maybe a really long actuator??? And really strong...

    Matt

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    Roton make Acme threads to 3-1/2" dia.--depending on the application it might be another option...

    Acme Lead Screws & Nuts - Engineering Data | Roton Products Inc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    I can understand your curiosity but I'm not a liberty to say just now. I should be able to say in 2 weeks.

    As has been mentioned threading isn't the biggest problem but the length is.

    There is a very interesting story behind my question and I hope I don't end up having to sign some kind of "secrecy" agreement so I can't tell the story. It certainly isn't something I'd have designed.

    Maybe someone can come up with an answer to my original question. As also suggested two welded lengths might be a solution.
    If you welded sections together, how you line up the thread start? Or would you have to?
    I would love to hear the story on this if you are able to.
    My feeble little brain is working overtime trying to picture this!

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    A comment:
    100 mm D vs 10.000 mm or 10 m long is 100:1 length / diameter ratio.

    They are probably going to twist like pretzel or string and elongate perhaps centimeters !! in length before breaking up, well before you approach anywhere near the longitudinal strength of the material.

    Torsionally:
    From guesstimate, lying down, I would expect the "screw" can be lifted about 15-20 cm up from the middle, with both ends still touching the ground.

    In any 100:1 situation, it seems to me that the thread would distort a lot due to elongation/compression and lead to binding and rapid wear and deformation of the rod/nut.

    Thus I would think that one would want to:

    1. Use acme or trapezoidal = metric acme threads.
    2. use pipe, ie thick walled seamless tube like that used for hydraulic cylinders.
    Seamless hydraulic cylinder material, raw, is easily machined and pretty cheap.

    Any large lathe could easily self-feed the pipe through a suitable tapping jig to some form of acme or buttress thread.
    One could make a progrssive jig with say acme/trapezoidal thread inserts and std toolholders for a bigger lathe, in maybe 1-2 days.

    The tapped pipe would be much lighter, much more rigid per mass, and much cheaper.
    It would also then have a precision thread form suitable for motion control apps to some extent.

    For example the pylons houses are built on, are a thick type of pipe, and they go to at least 20 cm in D.


    ---
    To wit.
    The typical hw store threaded rods are 1 m long.
    The thinnest one is == 4 mm thick.
    25:1 in L/D.
    Now imagine the same rod 4 m long for 100:1, and think how floppy it will be, and how much it will wind under any load.

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    I honestly wish I could give more information and I'm asking myself the same questions as some of you.

    As I've already mentioned this is not a "design" I would have chosen but I'll be much wiser in under 2 weeks.

    If I'm not "gagged" it'll be a very interesting story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanermo View Post
    A comment:
    100 mm D vs 10.000 mm or 10 m long is 100:1 length / diameter ratio.

    They are probably going to twist like pretzel or string and elongate perhaps centimeters !! in length before breaking up, well before you approach anywhere near the longitudinal strength of the material.

    Torsionally:
    From guesstimate, lying down, I would expect the "screw" can be lifted about 15-20 cm up from the middle, with both ends still touching the ground.

    In any 100:1 situation, it seems to me that the thread would distort a lot due to elongation/compression and lead to binding and rapid wear and deformation of the rod/nut.

    Thus I would think that one would want to:

    1. Use acme or trapezoidal = metric acme threads.
    2. use pipe, ie thick walled seamless tube like that used for hydraulic cylinders.
    Seamless hydraulic cylinder material, raw, is easily machined and pretty cheap.

    Any large lathe could easily self-feed the pipe through a suitable tapping jig to some form of acme or buttress thread.
    One could make a progrssive jig with say acme/trapezoidal thread inserts and std toolholders for a bigger lathe, in maybe 1-2 days.

    The tapped pipe would be much lighter, much more rigid per mass, and much cheaper.
    It would also then have a precision thread form suitable for motion control apps to some extent.

    For example the pylons houses are built on, are a thick type of pipe, and they go to at least 20 cm in D.


    ---
    To wit.
    The typical hw store threaded rods are 1 m long.
    The thinnest one is == 4 mm thick.
    25:1 in L/D.
    Now imagine the same rod 4 m long for 100:1, and think how floppy it will be, and how much it will wind under any load.
    It does worry me that I cant find a flaw with your reasoning
    Last edited by Gordon B. Clarke; 07-09-2018 at 11:20 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_Maguire View Post
    The only reason to require all thread is if you intend to use it all??? Maybe a really long actuator??? And really strong...

    Matt
    Your answer has nothing to do with my question.


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