A lesson in history

Being a new member of this forum, I have been reading a lot about the angst against the Chinese manufacturing community and lack of quality.

This same thing happened in the post-World War 2 era against the Japanese nation. Their economy was in ruins and they needed help if they were going to survive. Douglas MacArthur asked, then President, Harry Truman if Truman could do something to bring about a manufacturing start-up.

Harry enlisted the help of W. Edwards Deming, PhD in physics. The rest, they say is history. I can remember as a youngster in the 1950’s, the “cheap Japanese junk” flooding the market. Deming’s main job, in Japan, was to teach communications, the manufacturing process and above all, QUALITY. The Japanese listened and strived to bring themselves on the market, noted for fine manufactured goods. Their success is noted in the products they make today.

Managing in the Postmodern World: America's Revolution Against Exploitation ...
By David M. Boje, and Robert F. Dennehy.

The point I am making is: China is in the same situation as Japan was in, in 1946. Remember the old axiom; “those who ignore history are condemned to relive it.” It’s not going to happen overnight, but it will happen. The question, that comes to my mind, is “Is China astute enough to see the light?”

Deming was a great man for the job. Ive read a lot about him. Nice point.

Ron

I think there are some similarities, but China and Japan are very different, historically, culturally, and, of course, in terms of government.

The Chinese are making great strides in quality, and the government of China is spending billions (actually, hundreds of billions) on R&D, and infrastructure improvements, to move Chinese manufacturing up and away from low cost, low value, low quality products.

But the Chinese do not innovate the way the Japanese do, and they dont have the same cultural respect for quality. Many chinese companies, like many american companies, are in business to make a profit, period. Japan, on the other hand, has thousands of small companies that are content to stay small, and focus on extreme quality, because tradition and quality are so important to them.

I see more and more Chinese students in the USA, even in my small town rural community college, and I know they are trying to train more innovators and create brands, but even in China, western stuff is more desired- The chinese are the number one market for Rolls Royce, Mercedes, and many other luxury brands, and even though there are local chinese efforts to move into luxury goods, they dont sell very well, in China, and virtually not at all outside of China.

I think China will change a lot in the next 50 years, but it will never become Japan.

grafox said:

The point I am making is: China is in the same situation as Japan was in, in 1946. Remember the old axiom; “those who ignore history are condemned to relive it.” It’s not going to happen overnight, but it will happen. The question, that comes to my mind, is “Is China astute enough to see the light?”

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People have been saying that for twenty years now....have you been under a rock or what ? Ries sums up nicely much of what I've been saying for years on the subject.

Nice meaningless topic title, btw.

Didn't Homer Sarasohn and Charles Protzman write the manual for quality for the Japanese, I was under the impression that they predate Deming in running Japanese quality courses.

How Homer Sarasohn Brought Industrial Quality to Japan and Why It Took Japan So Long to Learn

I think many are forgetting the buyer input, Japan was supplying a market that demanded cheap. They did this well and as their economy improved they began to resent the criticism that they created junk or copies and national pride took over. The buyers of the world still demand cheap and China is finding they can't compete with the new emerging cheap producers. Japan and Taiwan now produce top end material so will China.
It is the end user who drives the producer. We the buyers have destroyed our own manufacturing sector and economy in the name of Capitalism and the 1% that benefit from it.

While i generally agree, china as a brand, needs another 20 years in the market.
QC is random and generally sub par.
Ill stick with mitutoyo rather than buying chinese 'mitotuyo' tools, thanks.
And id take a jap bike over a harley ANY day.

Ries said:

I think there are some similarities, but China and Japan are very different, historically, culturally, and, of course, in terms of government.

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I believe part of why Japan is the way it is now (saying this while i have never been there..) has a lot to do with the Edo period (Edo period - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). During that time with isolationist foreign policy, the country had to innovate to survive. A year with poor harvest meant big problems. There was a huge focus on adding value in a 'true' way, like making the agricultural sector more efficient, making housing more efficient (standardized sizes etc). I think that a lot of that spirit has survived (at least for a long time). I might be forgetting and overlooking a whole lot but thats what i learned on the subject.

Disclaimer: jack of many trades, master of none. Especially not history.

edit: Tokugawa period (Japanese history) -- Encyclopedia Britannica

I think a review of history would provide a glimps. First, Switzerland before the late 1800's was mainly mining and mercenaries. Their fight method of a long lance formations was very effective till firearms became effective. For some reason, in the late 1800's there was a push to make clock or watch movements. Low end stuff. Actually, the US was quality leader for watch movements, at least production ones. Gruen of Cincinatti OH, used imported Swiss movments. Some of them were Angler. Angler also made watches. The same Angler watch today, sell for twice what a Gruen does. You'd know them as Rolex.
Now as for China, I do not think their entire history they produced 'junk', even though their ships were named as such. Actually, they exported a lot of items to Europe in the 1600 to 1800 as they were better quality than Europe could produce. I think Wedgewood tried to emulate the Chinese pottery. Hence the term 'china' for plates and such. Some of it was trade barries though. The English tried to get around or remove these. They finally found a product the chinese just couldn't do without. Seems one of theri 'territories' Afgahnistan and something called opium.
Also, China went through isolation, invasion and expansion periods. Much like Japan. Japan was invaded though. The Monguls tried, after conquring China. Wasn't just the divine wind that held them off. Unsiuted ships, and the japanses were better at close quater combat than the mongols.
Tom