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  1. #101
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    I was in Southeast Asia at the time. Listened to in on Armed Forces Radio. How fast time goes by. It sure was moving slower there.

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechanola View Post
    Its the official version that denies basic scientific facts. To transit the van Allen belts in an aluminium shell without problems, to survive in the hard solar wind outside earth’s protective magnetic field, to cool the human body in a hermetically sealed suit with no air around to exchange the excessive energy with, the suits not inflated in spite of the fact that there’s virtually vacuum in space and air pressure within the suits, and so on. It simply wouldn’t work.

    Those a little inclined to photography must admit that there are lit-up shadows where black ones should be. It may take some time to see it. And as I said, it is a subtle thing, everyone was so good to love it. The hoax couldnt work today.
    YouTube

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    Those a little inclined to photography must admit that there are lit-up shadows where black ones should be. It may take some time to see it. And as I said, it is a subtle thing, everyone was so good to love it. The hoax couldnt work today.[/QUOTE]

    Bloody Americans,lying again. I bet they colluded with the Russians and now of course the Chinese to fool us all. It won't be long before they have to talk to India to keep the lies going.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman109 View Post
    Buzz deserved a medal for that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    Buzz deserved a medal for that
    I certainly agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    I asked my wife to switch h me to Smithsonian air and space magazine...wouldn't ya know it, first issue that comes has a great article on Apollo. The science channel and Smithsonian channel both have some great shows on the program. Ive been interested in the space program in general for a long time.

    Now at work I get to work on molds and fixtures for parts for the turbo pumps in the rs-25 (ssme) rocket engine. In fact I have 2 castings on my bench. A lot of the molds and stuff haven't been used since before sts 135 in 2011 so we have been working on getting stuff going and making new stuff. Aerojet rocketdyne has some very stringent requirements now. And for good reason, they want to push the output of them higher then ever. Interesting process how these castings are made, it's called booking. Sorry for being vague on details, I'm not really allowed to talk about our stuff.
    That's so cool that you get to work on those fixtures and molds,

    Thought you might like these two vids, clips...




    ^^^In this vid, (Curious Droid) covers why and how so many of the original techniques and methods for manufacturing the F1 engines (used on the Saturn V / Apollo stage 1 booster. ) have been lost and we would not be able to replicate a 50 year old design BUT with modern techniques and different approaches to engine design how we'd do things differently today.





    The first 15 minutes of this is interesting especially about 8 mins in to 13 mins they discuss the problems they had with the F1 engines (for Apollo), where combustion instability would take over , "flame" would rotate 2000 times / second in the combustion chamber and cause catastrophic failure (real show stopper unless a solution could be found). Critical use of copper baffles over the injector heads, cool footage . Not all designs scale without some serious problem solving...

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    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    i'm a youngin compared to most of y'all. born in 84 (and in the former USSR)
    but i'm a huge space nerd, reading this thread is soo cool! worked at spacex a few years ago, nice to know that i had a hand in something potentially game changing.
    hats off to you gentlemen that were involved in all this!


    @empwoer
    Thought you might like this ^^^

    Some of the Russian pure science and mathematics is second to none. Those guys are incredibly smart including for materials science. The Russian education system really turned out some incredibly smart engineers and Physicists, met many of them that "Brain drained" to the U.k. and elsewhere.

    The vid / Scott Manley discusses how the Russian closed cycle engine is cleaner and more efficient + has 10% higher specific impulse.

    So The Americans with the Atlas system switched to using Russian engines which are still used today, RD-180 engines on the ATLAS III and ATLAS V. Interesting with an oxygen rich engine and advanced alloys the engines don't burn up and they don't suffer from "Cokeing" anywhere near as much.


    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______


    @empwoer There's a great story where Elon Musk tried to buy a soviet era ICBM for his idea of putting a little green house on MARS (before Space X had launched or built much of anything), and the Russian chief engineer literally spat on his shoes was absolutely apoplectic with rage at the idea, and point blank refused to sell these systems to Musk. Kinda understandable given everything the Soviets went through just to have this apparent 'Rich kid" come up and say "Can I buy a missile"... (The massive effort and cost it took to develop such a system by the Soviet state ) just to be snapped up for a few million dollars by the 'Winners" of the cold war by outspending the Soviets on a "Star Wars" program lol.. + the absolutely annoyance of having an American start-up (the Paypal guy) reverse engineer decades of Soviet engineering for his own casual purposes. Musk was very clever to bet on best of US and best of Soviet simplified design + modern tech spin on things to achieve what he did.... And continues to innovate (those booster landings are just beyond incredible/ your eyes almost can't believe what you are seeing, Amazing...).

    @empwoer what is it like to work at Space X , what's the atmosphere like / vibe / company culture like ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post


    @empwoer
    Thought you might like this ^^^

    Some of the Russian pure science and mathematics is second to none. Those guys are incredibly smart including for materials science. The Russian education system really turned out some incredibly smart engineers and Physicists, met many of them that "Brain drained" to the U.k. and elsewhere.

    The vid / Scott Manley discusses how the Russian closed cycle engine is cleaner and more efficient + has 10% higher specific impulse.

    So The Americans with the Atlas system switched to using Russian engines which are still used today, RD-180 engines on the ATLAS III and ATLAS V. Interesting with an oxygen rich engine and advanced alloys the engines don't burn up and they don't suffer from "Cokeing" anywhere near as much.


    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______


    @empwoer There's a great story where Elon Musk tried to buy a soviet era ICBM for his idea of putting a little green house on MARS, and the Russian chief engineer literally spat on hi shoes was absolutely incandescent with rage and point blank refused to sell these systems to Musk. Kinda understandable given everything the Soviets went through just to have this apparent 'Rich kid" come up and say "Can I buy a missile"... (The massive effort and cost it took to develop such a system by the Soviet state ) just to be snapped up for a few million dollars by the 'Winners" of the cold war by outspending the Soviets on a "Star Wars" program lol.

    @empwoer what is it like to work at Space X , what's the atmosphere like / vibe / company culture like ?
    i'm quite familiar with the RD-180 engine and the history/politics involved with that situation. yeah russian tech was WAY ahead of its time back in the day (i'm actually half russian). but unfortunately these days they're held back by politics would have been so cool to have another space race!
    i read all the stories about elon, he's my hero/idol.

    working at spacex was a love/hate relationship. the work was super intense and involved, working under that vision/drive was exhilirating!
    what i hated was the middle management that could make your life there miserable if you didnt fit into their 'cliques'

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  14. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    i'm quite familiar with the RD-180 engine and the history/politics involved with that situation. yeah russian tech was WAY ahead of its time back in the day (i'm actually half russian). but unfortunately these days they're held back by politics would have been so cool to have another space race!
    i read all the stories about elon, he's my hero/idol.

    working at spacex was a love/hate relationship. the work was super intense and involved, working under that vision/drive was exhilirating!
    what i hated was the middle management that could make your life there miserable if you didnt fit into their 'cliques'
    That's kinda my impression a bit of Space X, and the possibility to have to go through middle management to get Approval / OK for certain projects. We have some tech on the imaging / inspection front that would be very relevant to what they are doing and their overall business model (in terms of risk/ "Insurance") Vs. having your satellite launched by the Russians or even the Chinese, especially for prospective clients trying to weigh up "cheapness" vs. risk of loosing their payload + insurance underwriting.

    Seems that would be a bit hit or miss in terms of who we eventually "Pitch" too. Pick the wrong "Clique" then that's it your kinda screwed / out.


    __________________________________________________ ___________________________________________


    That's cool that you are originally from Russia. If you don't mind me asking is your mum or dad an engineer / physicist / science math "type" ?


    My Old man is originally from East Germany, in spite of the atrocities of the second world war, he had Russians living in his house for several years after the war. My father used to trade gasoline (on the black market) and truck tries etc. across the border and the young Russian officers that commandeered his family home looked after him very well (This was a political directive too, as the Americans in the US occupied zones pretty much trashed everything when living in commandeered civilian homes after the war.). Eventually my father was forced or required to join "The (Communist) party" and that's when he escaped to the west (long before the wall was built) he was an artist not a dentists or an engineer so his prospects would have been very bleak.

    Funny all these years later I watched the TV show "The Americans" with the Russian sleeper agents and sometimes I would think... Heyyy wait a minute ???? My father had top security clearance at NASA (in spite of being on the arts and graphics side, ) yet his best friend (when he moved to the UK) was high up at intelligence in the RAF (friend of the family) and later on my old man used to work on projects in some former eastern block counties and had all this very unusual Russian camera equipment he would pick up out there... So it was kinda like was he an asset ???? [After watching the 'The Americans " Hmmmmmm .]. My father always spoke very highly of what the Soviets had accomplished in such a short time considering where they were technologically and in infra structure at the beginning of the 20th Century.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    That's kinda my impression a bit of Space X, and the possibility to have to go through middle management to get Approval / OK for certain projects. We have some tech on the imaging / inspection front that would be very relevant to what they are doing and their overall business model (in terms of risk/ "Insurance") Vs. having your satellite launched by the Russians or even the Chinese, especially for prospective clients trying to weigh up "cheapness" vs. risk of loosing their payload + insurance underwriting.

    Seems that would be a bit hit or miss in terms of who we eventually "Pitch" too. Pick the wrong "Clique" then that's it your kinda screwed / out.


    __________________________________________________ ___________________________________________


    That's cool that you are originally from Russia. If you don't mind me asking is your mum or dad an engineer / physicist / science math "type" ?


    My Old man is originally from East Germany, in spite of the atrocities of the second world war, he had Russians living in his house for several years after the war. My father used to trade gasoline (on the black market) and truck tries etc. across the border and the young Russian officers that commandeered his family home looked after him very well (This was a political directive too, as the Americans in the US occupied zones pretty much trashed everything when living in commandeered civilian homes after the war.). Eventually my father was forced or required to join "The (Communist) party" and that's when he escaped to the west (long before the wall was built) he was an artist not a dentists or an engineer so his prospects would have been very bleak.

    Funny all these years later I watched the TV show "The Americans" with the Russian sleeper agents and sometimes I would think... Heyyy wait a minute ???? My father had top security clearance at NASA (in spite of being on the arts and graphics side, ) yet his best friend (when he moved to the UK) was high up at intelligence in the RAF (friend of the family) and later on my old man used to work on projects in some former eastern block counties and had all this very unusual Russian camera equipment he would pick up out there... So it was kinda like was he an asset ???? [After watching the 'The Americans " Hmmmmmm .]. My father always spoke very highly of what the Soviets had accomplished in such a short time considering where they were technologically and in infra structure at the beginning of the 20th Century.
    nah, my parents were very simple, dad was a crane operator, mom was a seamstress. i'm not sure where i got my interest/knack for mechanical things etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    nah, my parents were very simple, dad was a crane operator, mom was a seamstress. i'm not sure where i got my interest/knack for mechanical things etc.
    That's awesome,

    I can kinda see now why you would be super excited about the Matsuura LX-160 for what you want to do for your impellers/ turbo charger units over other "Kit" given that you worked at Space X



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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    That's awesome,

    I can kinda see now why you would be super excited about the Matsuura LX-160 for what you want to do for your impellers/ turbo charger units over other "Kit" given that you worked at Space X


    haha, yeah for sure! i'm just a huge nerd for technology and i love creating things so anything related to that gives me a boner!

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    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    haha, yeah for sure! i'm just a huge nerd for technology and i love creating things so anything related to that gives me a boner!
    Absolutely !

    I try not to get sucked into that... Keep telling myself "It's a business... " (slap myself in the face), ""It's a business... " (slap) "It's a business... " (slap) ad infinitum …

    But that machine for smaller more intricate parts could also be pretty amazing.

    Sometimes it's simply not possible to predict what you'll get into 5 to ten years from now just from spin offs.

    Same with the Space industry.

    My key "core" skill (technologically) is actually photogrammetry (+ VR) systems...


    So in the 2000's I was a huge fan of Intergraph … They originally did the Moon mapping / photogrammetric work from the Apollo Moon mapping cameras and missions / mission objectives...

    Interestingly they [Intergraph.]. developed some incredible graphics cards / computer technology in the 90's to the 2000 that surpassed SGI [Silicon Graphics.] because it could be implemented on regular PC's taking advantage of high bandwidth mother boards, rather than the more specialized and expensive hardware from Silicon Graphics. WildCat rendering cards and 3D labs (without their tech I never would have been able to do what I do now.).

    Even though Intergraph had the patents on the Direct Burst technology (which makes advanced graphics and rendering possible on a PC); the Wintell juggernaught (Intel and Microsoft (Windows) (together)) decided to try and coerce Intergraph out of their patents by withholding KEY implementation details of the intel core processor instruction sets to be rolled out.

    Hideous law suits ensued for many years eventually Intergraph won , but intel completely destroyed that Integraph division when they were poised to become one of the biggest players in the industry... (just through nasty time wasting legal "Tactics" to be deliberately obstructive, knowing full well they (Intel) were doing wrong.) Also note worthy that division also developed the orginal versions of the CAD software for SoldEdge*, now taken over by Siemens PLM


    Intel owes it's existence to the space industry, in reasonable measure as well as Integraph.

    Silicon Graphics basically went out of business (other than OpenGl) and the engineers from the wildcat 3D labs division [Intergraph ] left, as well as the engineers from SiliconGraphics and they all went to work for NVIDIA


    So NVIDIA is a major power house on the stock market and their graphics rendering technology is in almost everything.

    Without Apollo moon mapping and photogrammetry + Dirty tricks from Intel, there would be no NVIDIA ..

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________


    moon-mapping-camera-1-.jpg

    ^^^ Moon mapping camera placed on board Apollo service module (aft of the capsule/ command module.). [Built by Fairchild.].

    sim2-1-.jpg

    mpc_lg-1-.jpg

    ^^^ A lot of people don't realize that the command module pilot had to do a space walk / EVA out of the capsule to the service module to retrieve or change the large film canisters... Kinda takes some balls to do that while in orbit around the MOON !

    __________________________________________________ __________________________


    * Personally I thought the initial design / versions of SolidEdge were graphically much more advanced and better designed than Soliworks. Better interface , procedures and less mouse clicks more fluid in line with other more sophisticated 3d graphics programs of the time. Siemens sat on Solid Edge for far to long / IMO... (let it rot for a while doing very little with it.).

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    A few years after graduation I ran into a boy from high school. He was one of the boys that no one seems to notice, never made much of a splash. He had gone to work for what then was the Aeronautical Chart and Information Center (something else now) and he was absolutely in love with his job. He gave us a long dissertation on the scanners that automatically adjusted the density of photographs to bring up shadows, etc. Probably 30 years later, a friend saw him and he was still as wrapped up in his work. Nice when someone finds a job he really wants to do.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Absolutely !

    I try not to get sucked into that... Keep telling myself "It's a business... " (slap myself in the face), ""It's a business... " (slap) "It's a business... " (slap) ad infinitum …

    But that machine for smaller more intricate parts could also be pretty amazing.

    Sometimes it's simply not possible to predict what you'll get into 5 to ten years from now just from spin offs.

    Same with the Space industry.

    My key "core" skill (technologically) is actually photogrammetry (+ VR) systems...


    So in the 2000's I was a huge fan of Intergraph … They originally did the Moon mapping / photogrammetric work from the Apollo Moon mapping cameras and missions / mission objectives...

    Interestingly they [Intergraph.]. developed some incredible graphics cards / computer technology in the 90's to the 2000 that surpassed SGI [Silicon Graphics.] because it could be implemented on regular PC's taking advantage of high bandwidth mother boards, rather than the more specialized and expensive hardware from Silicon Graphics. WildCat rendering cards and 3D labs (without their tech I never would have been able to do what I do now.).

    Even though Intergraph had the patents on the Direct Burst technology (which makes advanced graphics and rendering possible on a PC); the Wintell juggernaught (Intel and Microsoft (Windows) (together)) decided to try and coerce Intergraph out of their patents by withholding KEY implementation details of the intel core processor instruction sets to be rolled out.

    Hideous law suits ensued for many years eventually Intergraph won , but intel completely destroyed that Integraph division when they were poised to become one of the biggest players in the industry... (just through nasty time wasting legal "Tactics" to be deliberately obstructive, knowing full well they (Intel) were doing wrong.) Also note worthy that division also developed the orginal versions of the CAD software for SoldEdge*, now taken over by Siemens PLM


    Intel owes it's existence to the space industry, in reasonable measure as well as Integraph.

    Silicon Graphics basically went out of business (other than OpenGl) and the engineers from the wildcat 3D labs division [Intergraph ] left, as well as the engineers from SiliconGraphics and they all went to work for NVIDIA


    So NVIDIA is a major power house on the stock market and their graphics rendering technology is in almost everything.

    Without Apollo moon mapping and photogrammetry + Dirty tricks from Intel, there would be no NVIDIA ..

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________


    moon-mapping-camera-1-.jpg

    ^^^ Moon mapping camera placed on board Apollo service module (aft of the capsule/ command module.). [Built by Fairchild.].

    sim2-1-.jpg

    mpc_lg-1-.jpg

    ^^^ A lot of people don't realize that the command module pilot had to do a space walk / EVA out of the capsule to the service module to retrieve or change the large film canisters... Kinda takes some balls to do that while in orbit around the MOON !

    __________________________________________________ __________________________


    * Personally I thought the initial design / versions of SolidEdge were graphically much more advanced and better designed than Soliworks. Better interface , procedures and less mouse clicks more fluid in line with other more sophisticated 3d graphics programs of the time. Siemens sat on Solid Edge for far to long / IMO... (let it rot for a while doing very little with it.).
    damn dude, thats some neat stuff!

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    "Moon mapping camera placed on board Apollo service module (aft of the capsule/ command module.). [Built by Fairchild.]."

    I inherited, and to this day use, a small hand-held circular saw, from my maternal grandfather, who was
    oddly enough a dentist, but was quite handy around his house.

    The saw has a small manufactuer's plate on it, which states the saw was made by "Fairchild Camera."

    Not only moon equipment, also saws.

    The inflated spacesuit thing is real. The first spacewalk was by a russian, and he almost died because
    his suit inflated beyond what they expected, and he barely made it back inside. There was aparently
    serious consideration given to simply cutting him loose so the other man would not perish.
    Close examination of later gear reveals considerable cabling to prevent blow-ups like that.

    Russian engineers and physicsts are amzing. Most of american stealth aircraft technology got its start
    from an obscure russian paper in an obscure enginnering journal. The first time they tried the ideas
    out in hardware, the radar techs though the model had fallen off the pole downrange. But no, it
    was still there. With nearly zero cross section.

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    My lady and I went to the Vancouver world's fair, which had a replica of Mir. People talk about stone age work from Russia. Forget it. The workmanship was outstanding.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    @empwoer There's a great story where Elon Musk tried to buy a soviet era ICBM for his idea of putting a little green house on MARS (before Space X had launched or built much of anything), and the Russian chief engineer literally spat on his shoes was absolutely apoplectic with rage at the idea, and point blank refused to sell these systems to Musk.
    Made me laugh .... I had a friend in El Segundo involved in making missile casings and maybe some other stuff. He travelled all over, around 1990-ish was offered some Soviet missiles. So he called his contacts at the Air Force and they said "Buy them ! Now ! We'll take care of the import problems !"

    How to do that ? Didn't have that kind of cash with him, so he put it on his American Express card

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Made me laugh .... I had a friend in El Segundo involved in making missile casings and maybe some other stuff. He travelled all over, around 1990-ish was offered some Soviet missiles. So he called his contacts at the Air Force and they said "Buy them ! Now ! We'll take care of the import problems !"

    How to do that ? Didn't have that kind of cash with him, so he put it on his American Express card
    haha, thats bitchin!

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    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    damn dude, thats some neat stuff!
    But about SGI, it's wrong.

    I won't get into whether Intergraph had "better" graphics than SGI (you'd get a stiff fight from anyone who ever used Infinite Reality) but what happened to SGI didn't have much to do with the space program.

    Early on they were big in molecular biology (drug research) and geology (hunting for oil). Their face to the public was Hollywood (Jurassic Park) but that wasn't where they made their money. And CAD, of course. Pro/E, I-DEAS, Unigraphics all ran on SGI workstations real early. When a peecee was having trouble doing 640x480 the standard low-level SGI was running at 1280x1024 and much faster.

    Even more important than the speed was the fact that, without a bus, SGI graphics could handle massive amounts of data (for the time).

    And then they got fat and complacent and real real pleased with themselves. They brought in mugwort accountants to make decisions, the founder got so pissed that he left (his vision was to put fast graphics into the mainstream and make LOTS of money by selling LOTS of graphics at low prices. Ed McMuffin thought selling ten units for $50,000 each was a better deal.) Mickeysoft feared IBM the most, then SGI second, if that tells you anything.

    Jim Clark left and founded Netscape. The guys in the graphics department left and founded nVidia. nVidia is the guys from SGI who thought McMuffin and his followons were wrong.

    nVidia is still around, SGI went bankrupt twice because the fools running the place after Clark couldn't find their ass with both hands. They bled it dry then walked away.

    But it was fun while it lasted. Second-best desktop ever, pretty nice version of Yewnix, Apple should have bought them but alas, Saint Jobs grew to where he didn't give a shit about computing either. Money makes zee vorld go 'round, zee vorld go 'round, zee vorld go 'round ...

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