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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    The Daily Mail has similarly high journalistic standards as Fox News.
    OT from tariffs...

    Just saying it seems to be a growing problem.

    London sees 20% rise in rape reports in a year, but police admit they 'don't understand' reason | The Independent

    • USA - reported forcible rape rate 1990-2017 | Timeline

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    I have always had a lot of reguard and respect for the Nordic nations/people, along with Germany.
    I have worked with guys from those countries and thought most if not all were good and talented people.

    But it seems the tide is turning...
    Migrant rape fears across Europe as women are told not to go out at night alone | Daily Mail Online

    YouTube

    But wait. I don't want to rob this thread from the topic Tariffs.
    Then don't post BS

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  4. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Becoming communist or socialist doesn’t work. Granted Denmark seem doing OK/good but in most places it does not work.
    This has come up so many times. Its good that we understand these terms else in ignorance can ask for the wrong thing like what seems to be happening currently

    Economically Denmark is a market based economy, capitalist. Politically its described as a social democracy which implies much high tax and much higher government spend than the US - its the same system with but with the slider on tax and spend set much further over. That's just fiscal policy, not a different economic model. All of us will have differing views on whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. (btw, you could have all the benefits without increasing tax....but there's that little gnarly bit called the defence budget holding you back)

    A socialist state or describing a country as socialist is what you may think of as communism: former Russia, lots of China, Cuba etc. Socialism means the state owns or controls the means of production - the basic economic model of all communist countries is socialism. Its not entirely black and white though, most economies have some elements of socialism, i.e. a road, a public school. Generally its the nature of the predominant part of the economy that is used to describe it - i.e. Canada has socialized medicine but is clearly a capitalist economy.
    Last edited by Mcgyver; 06-09-2019 at 11:15 AM.

  5. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    I have to question if you know how this world works.
    Seems like you are reading "news" and making assumptions with no real experience.
    If people in the US did not want drugs there would not be "mules".
    Perhaps the USA is the real problem in the drug war. Why is there a demand for the product?

    Could it be that you are blaming the messenger?
    Bob
    You are free to question whatever you like.

    That's not from the media, it's from the head of Customs and Border Protection, sworn testimony before the US Congress.

    The kids being used as mules are not smuggling drugs- they are smuggling people. Adults who are using the kid so they can enter as a "family unit". They get a court date and are released. The kids go back to Mexico and pick up another "family". The adults disappear into the interior.

    This is run by the Sinaloa and Zeta cartels, mostly the Sinaloa.

    I ignore cable news. I watch the hearings on C-Span.

    Drugs- maybe you would feel different if it affected one of your family members. $10 bags of Mexican tar heroin in our middle schools, yep. It's America's fault...

    I think you have your head in the sand. This isn't just an LA thing- it's in our most affluent schools. All of them.

  6. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    Net immigration FROM Mexico, as opposed to THRU Mexico, has been falling since 2007.
    What we know about illegal immigration from Mexico | Pew Research Center

    CAFTA is just with the Dominican Republic.
    Huh? CAFTA originally didn't even include the DR. It's now called CAFTA-DR and includes the US, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, and the Dominican Republic.

    The DR was the last to join.

    Dominican Republic–Central America Free Trade Agreement - Wikipedia

    Wrt migrations- the net out-migration began when the economy tanked. It had nothing to do with NAFTA.

    One of the major promises of NAFTA (which is what I am talking about here) was that rising wages, and new investments in infrastructure by the Mexican gov't would transform Mexico, and illegal immigration would be dramatically reduced.

    Didn't happen. The investments were never made, wages in Mexico didn't rise, and illegal immigration increased. By a lot. It wasn't until the US economy crashed that it started going the other direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Agree there are a number of countries along with Denmark doing well and as for Denmark having happy people, that seem true. I do hope Denmark can and will continue to do that well. My point was that when the USA is functioning it is a very good market for any county to sell products into. Functioning well means having USA jobs, as we now have. The tariffs are a means to tell the world that we still have some say and that we will turn the same rules back on any country that wants to tariff or be unfair with our country. Denmark and the like are not being unfair with the USA but.We made some bad deals and now seem to be getting some jobs back...The USA can only function well if we have plenty of jobs.
    So far this economy only works for the top 1% and a little bit for the top 10%, The rest falling further behind...Guess what turns people into communists.


    dee
    ;-D

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    I think you have your head in the sand. This isn't just an LA thing- it's in our most affluent schools. All of them.
    It almost appears that you think affluence makes one smart. It doesn't always work that way.

  9. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    ....
    Because the Senate told him they were going to vote down his tariffs
    And you buy it hook line and sinker
    Maybe he knew the Senate would go that way.
    Hell no I don't "buy" it and I don't think he did either.
    He is more complicated than most politicians and while at odds with my thinking does make the turns at the right time.
    I admire a worthy adversary. Don't lump me in with him but that does not mean I have no respect for the skill the game is played on.

    We seem to have gone to drugs in some places.
    If this hits home why is there consumption no matter how cheap or legal? Why the want to dull your mind?
    Probation was sort of a violent world. Particularly if you lived next to Canada.
    Yet we don't hate the Canooks although they fueled the trade.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Probation was sort of a violent world. Particularly if you lived next to Canada.
    The only thing prohibition does (any substance) is guarantee a violent criminal supply chain. The only hope is reduce the demand or give up and tax it. The status quo with billions being spent and lives ruined through prison and criminal records is just nuts as it accomplishes nothing except to fuel said violent supply chain.

    If there should be anybody lobbying for drugs to remain illegal, it should be cartels et al

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  12. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    It almost appears that you think affluence makes one smart. It doesn't always work that way.
    I don't know where you get that impression. Not only does it not always work that way, it never works that way.

    Addiction is not limited to people of lower socioeconomic status, or people who are not "smart".

    Supply creates demand. Ask any addict when he first got involved with drugs. Sadly, rehab has a very poor track record for actually helping people. You have to prevent addiction- there is no cure, the best you can hope for is remission.

    Getting it out of our schools is a good place to start.

    It's easy to blame the addict, but a 12 year old kid really doesn't know what he is doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    I don't know where you get that impression. Not only does it not always work that way, it never works that way.

    Addiction is not limited to people of lower socioeconomic status, or people who are not "smart".

    Supply creates demand. Ask any addict when he first got involved with drugs. Sadly, rehab has a very poor track record for actually helping people. You have to prevent addiction- there is no cure, the best you can hope for is remission.

    Getting it out of our schools is a good place to start.

    It's easy to blame the addict, but a 12 year old kid really doesn't know what he is doing.
    I'm not quite sure what drugs have to do with tarifs but rehab here has a surprisingly good success rate.

    I also can't imagine where a 12 year old kid would get his or her hands on drugs here.

    It's legal here for a 16 year old to buy beer (in a bar you must be 18) and yet it isn't the problem some may think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    The only thing prohibition does (any substance) is guarantee a violent criminal supply chain......
    It breeds a violent supply chain as there is no other option.
    You can not go to court if you ripped off so it becomes street justice which is way harder than legal means.
    The worst in this tend to become the top dogs.
    They supply a need and protect their income outside the laws
    Lets face it killing a unit or family establishes your position. Is this like some new concept??
    Are they are businessmen working in the rules or evil sons of Satan?

    How does that side work in real life and how do we cross it with tariffs.

    There is a drug "want" Kill that and you kill the trade.
    Why is that such a appealing deal to our public.

    Bob

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    Qt:[So far this economy only works for the top 1% and a little bit for the top 10%, The rest falling further behind...Guess what turns people into communists.]

    I don't see it that way at all. I'm just a retired grinder hand. I have a nice house paid off, 140 acres hunting property, two very decent cars both paid off, a boat, money I will never spend. My two brothers are as well off both in the machine trades, one a pattern maker mostly bumping around small shops and the other a machine repair guy.
    My son a mechanic has a house in town and a house on a canal off lake St Clair (one paid off and the other near paid off). No place in the world people willing to work have it so well off.
    I know a black fellow who does very well with just using a fair size pick-up truck and a dump trailer who lives in a 300K neighborhood, he and his wife have later model nice cars. Go figure... We hear that dopey stuff on the news but most of the people I actually know are doing darn good.

    Yes I do have a small grinding shop and did work mostly for plastics and news paper tooling and some machine tool cutters. I started and ran that to put the kids through education so not to be stuck with loans to pay off. Never spent much of the tool service income on myself.. Still do a little grinding in my shop mostly as a favor to a customer who has odd machines that do not like new cutters unless they are made a certain way / my way..

    Good that in the USA any hard working guy can become a millionaire or just do very well. Can't say that for many other countries.

    *[Guess what turns people into communists.] Perhaps wanting to be lazy and still have stuff.or wanting everybody to be poor, or get even with the guys willing to work. or being foolish enough to think that would be good..or just being stuck with it and no way to go back(like Cuba where a lot of hard working people still have very little).

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  17. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    He is more complicated than most politicians and while at odds with my thinking does make the turns at the right time.
    I think you are wrong, stupid is pretty simple.

    dee
    ;-D

  18. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Qt:[So far this economy only works for the top 1% and a little bit for the top 10%, The rest falling further behind...Guess what turns people into communists.]

    I don't see it that way at all. I'm just a retired grinder hand. I have a nice house paid off, 140 acres hunting property, two very decent cars both paid off, a boat, money I will never spend. My two brothers are as well off both in the machine trades, one a pattern maker mostly bumping around small shops and the other a machine repair guy.
    My son a mechanic has a house in town and a house on a canal off lake St Clair (one paid off and the other near paid off). No place in the world people willing to work have it so well off.
    I know a black fellow who does very well with just using a fair size pick-up truck and a dump trailer who lives in a 300K neighborhood, he and his wife have later model nice cars. Go figure... We hear that dopey stuff on the news but most of the people I actually know are doing darn good.

    Yes I do have a small grinding shop and did work mostly for plastics and news paper tooling and some machine tool cutters. I started and ran that to put the kids through education so not to be stuck with loans to pay off. Never spent much of the tool service income on myself.. Still do a little grinding in my shop mostly as a favor to a customer who has odd machines that do not like new cutters unless they are made a certain way / my way..

    Good that in the USA any hard working guy can become a millionaire or just do very well. Can't say that for many other countries.

    *[Guess what turns people into communists.] Perhaps wanting to be lazy and still have stuff.or wanting everybody to be poor, or get even with the guys willing to work. or being foolish enough to think that would be good..or just being stuck with it and no way to go back(like Cuba where a lot of hard working people still have very little).
    you are 10%.

    Try to live off 20K a year. I know people with good education and degrees, and student loans and cannot get jobs. So they work in the service industry and make about that much, Not everybody can be a BSEE or BSCS. You have no clue what it is to be desperate, desperation turns people into communists, As Marx said the "proletariat has nothing to lose except its chains". And poor people will make poor decisions, and get them deeper into poverty. And poverty is not being lazy, it is simply lack of cash. You also fall into a common misconception

    The U.S. Does Poorly On Yet Another Metric of Economic Mobility


    dee
    ;-D

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Good that in the USA any hard working guy can become a millionaire or just do very well. Can't say that for many other countries.
    LOL Who or what has convinced you into thinking that it isn't the same in many other countries?

    List of countries by the number of billionaires - Wikipedia

    Number of Chinese millionaires sees rapid surge | Business| Economy and finance news from a German perspective | DW | 20.06.2017

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    Dee - they are counting things like oil refineries as manufacturing. Umm, no. Not quite. And there's no real numbers, it's all just claims.

    Even then, they start at the year 2000 instead of a time when we really did have manufacturing, say, 1975.

    I would not call this a good article.

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    It all depends on what is regarded as living a good life. I'm neither rich or poor and do pretty much everything I want to do.

    These countries have the highest quality of life | World Economic Forum

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post

    I know a black fellow who does very well with just using a fair size pick-up truck and a dump trailer who lives in a 300K neighborhood, he and his wife have later model nice cars. Go figure...

    Well alrighty then....

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    I met a Chinese millionaire (perhaps billionaire) at a trade show last year. His girl (Interrupter) said Mr. ….. is a very important man who has many factories. He can make anything you would wish.


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