New higher Tariffs from trade talks - Page 47
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 47 of 99 FirstFirst ... 3745464748495797 ... LastLast
Results 921 to 940 of 1961
  1. #921
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    2,674
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    473
    Likes (Received)
    1896

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    It's up around ten-percent, inauguration to date. A bit over 2 trillion of 22 trillion.

    Official projections might triple the INCREASE if he goes a full 8 years.
    That would be total debt rather than deficit. A better measure, imo because it includes the trust fund debt and off-budget supplementals.

    $2.06 Trillion more debt, so far under Trump. Average $991 Billion/yr.

    Obama entered office with total debt $10.6 Trillion and left with $19.9 Trillion. That's an 8-year average of $1.16 Trillion/yr.

    If you look at debt as a percentage of GDP, When Obama entered office it was 77.3%. When he left office it was 103.6%.

    Under Trump it has risen to 104.1%. That is a much slower rate of increase than we saw from Obama.

  2. #922
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Vt USA
    Posts
    6,799
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    748
    Likes (Received)
    2356

    Default

    Don't forget

    One man's debt is another man's investment.

    Wouldn't want your four OH ! Kay to go sour now would you?
    It's all tied together some where.

  3. #923
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    2,674
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    473
    Likes (Received)
    1896

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    OK, I wasn't talking about the indian girl. Not going to.
    You neither. you can't fix stupid.
    If she gets elected I want my free pony to be an appaloosa.

  4. #924
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,730
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8626

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    That would be total debt rather than deficit. A better measure, imo because it includes the trust fund debt and off-budget supplementals.

    $2.06 Trillion more debt, so far under Trump. Average $991 Billion/yr.

    Obama entered office with total debt $10.6 Trillion and left with $19.9 Trillion. That's an 8-year average of $1.16 Trillion/yr.

    If you look at debt as a percentage of GDP, When Obama entered office it was 77.3%. When he left office it was 103.6%.

    Under Trump it has risen to 104.1%. That is a much slower rate of increase than we saw from Obama.
    When.. we still HAD mortgages on our residences.. the US ones alone had always started out at a high percentage (VA loans).

    Long time now with no mortgages. Last auto-loan was mid 1980's 'coz new(ish) cars carry silly-stupid taxes whilst decent used cars can be bought for cash, bear little or NO Personal Property Tax.

    So.. the only number I much care about is this one:

    • U.S. national debt per capita 1990-2018 | Statista

    Figuring "per capita" includes innocent babes, and less-innocent unfortunates, if ever it had to be paid-off in a single year, I'd get hit with about four times that ~ $65,000 figure. Maybe even six times.

    About 60% - mebbe more - of what the tax man sez our modest 3 BR US home is worth.

    I can deal with either number and still live OK, even eat reg'lar-like.

    Mind.. it took 'til age 49 to get to that point, feel safe enuf to retire early.

    So.. "Your Mileage May Vary"

    I'm also old enough to remember.. when a "liberal" genuinely was. And added value to humanknd.

    The current crop of wannabee "Democratic Socialists"? Not related.

    Whiners. losers. Looters, even - or wish to become such.

    Not a "liberal" among the lot of 'em.

    Even LESS so, their "base".

  5. #925
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO USA
    Posts
    10,215
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    58
    Likes (Received)
    5697

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    That would be total debt rather than deficit. A better measure, imo because it includes the trust fund debt and off-budget supplementals.

    $2.06 Trillion more debt, so far under Trump. Average $991 Billion/yr.

    Obama entered office with total debt $10.6 Trillion and left with $19.9 Trillion. That's an 8-year average of $1.16 Trillion/yr.

    If you look at debt as a percentage of GDP, When Obama entered office it was 77.3%. When he left office it was 103.6%.

    Under Trump it has risen to 104.1%. That is a much slower rate of increase than we saw from Obama.
    Remember, the House controls spending and ran on CR includining the bush tax cuts.
    You can credit him with spending 900m in stimulus...passed under bush BTW.
    About half of which were tax cuts.
    Also credit him for the sequester which stabilized spending.

    OTOH trump passed tax cuts and spending increases.

    Don’t forget Obama entered office with a recession skewing GDP numbers down, trump entered on a record setting growth trend.

  6. #926
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO USA
    Posts
    10,215
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    58
    Likes (Received)
    5697

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    If she gets elected I want my free pony to be an appaloosa.
    I just want my tax dollars spent on helping the younguns be successful so I can collect my pension.

  7. #927
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    10,196
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3459
    Likes (Received)
    3645

    Default

    To be fair and compassionate to the rest of the would we need wide open borders and give to all the incoming head of each house hold $2.000per month if they can’t find a job, and a bonus of $1,000 if they are working. To be fair to the whole world include china and India people and all others who feel oppressed of unhappy.

    To all USA Citizens over 18 give a side bonus of $1.000 per month to all rich or poor.

    Give free college to any who wish to do that along with a living wage while they are increasing their education.

    Likely taxes won’t be enough so we can conscript all property and assets of US citizens and let them re pay for it with that money going to the give away fund.

  8. #928
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Vt USA
    Posts
    6,799
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    748
    Likes (Received)
    2356

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    To be fair and compassionate to the rest of the would we need wide open borders and give to all the incoming head of each house hold $2.000per month if they can’t find a job, and a bonus of $1,000 if they are working. To be fair to the whole world include china and India people and all others who feel oppressed of unhappy.

    To all USA Citizens over 18 give a side bonus of $1.000 per month to all rich or poor.

    Give free college to any who wish to do that along with a living wage while they are increasing their education.

    Likely taxes won’t be enough so we can conscript all property and assets of US citizens and let them re pay for it with that money going to the give away fund.
    I like it! Where do the tariffs come in?

  9. #929
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,730
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8626

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    Remember, the House controls spending
    No. They do not. Even the naifs in their ranks know better.

    It is the responsibility, PRIMARILY, of the House of Representatives to evaluate needs and initiate spending bills.

    - even so, the House MAY consider spending bills proposed by the Executive, and DO, as a matter of routine. whether agreed as-had (damned seldom, ever), modified (very common..), or rejected outright (not UNcommon..).

    - The House MAY consider spending bills originated by the Senate. They just did do - passing emergency funding for dealing with illegal immigrants unaltered.

    EITHER.. passage by a veto-proof majority in BOTH Houses - Presidential agreement not needed,

    OR - more commonly, passage by both Houses at or below a veto-proof majority, PLUS Presidential agreement and signature is what gets the bill into law.

    Without cooperation with the other Chamber as a minimum, or at veto-proof levels if they expect to not NEED the buy-in of the President, neither House nor Senate can do much of anything at all about spending beyond passing noisy - but useless - political posturing bills.

    Which just die.

    All this media puffery about what grand bills the Pelosi House has passed is but noise on the channel when the Senate doesn't bring them to the floor for THEIR vote.

    Damned good system, actually.

    Even when it is at its most frustrating it is clear whom made a good-faith effort to enlist support of the other chamber, voted which way or the other. Or "none of the above".

  10. Likes CalG liked this post
  11. #930
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    4,826
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3271
    Likes (Received)
    3688

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    Don't forget

    One man's debt is another man's investment.
    .
    yeah....what do you think maintains the balance of payments? .Wong Fook Hing(s) big pile of offshore owned bonds is about 1/3 of it. Think of the interest you're sending him.

  12. #931
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    10,196
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3459
    Likes (Received)
    3645

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    I like it! Where do the tariffs come in?
    Likely have to tariff an extra 25 % of American worker's paycheck as a duty on income to pay for the free stuff budget.

    Oh I almost forgot.. We need to build a luxury free hotel and free restaurant at the border.. Likely Trump would like to build it
    on his tab.

  13. #932
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,730
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8626

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    yeah....what do you think maintains the balance of payments? .Wong Fook Hing(s) big pile of offshore owned bonds is about 1/3 of it. Think of the interest you're sending him.
    Not so fast.... China's holding of US debt instruments are way down vs "whole world".

    Big hunk of what THEY hold, yes. Even so, it is just over HALF of what they held just a few years ago.

    Much smaller hunk of what WE owe to all-holders. PRC holdings are under 5% by now, I'd guess.

    Part of why DJT (or his minders..) picked a very good time of the century to try and get this PRC/USA hassle sorted.

    Earlier was premature. Later might be impossible.

    And "Oh, BTW.." we're talking primarily Governments and their institutions, here.

    High net worth or other, private individuals have a bit of aversion to holding US Treasuries, various bonds & equities. Non-US citizens can see as much as 30% withholding applied on dividends and interest - at source, yet. Non-US equities are more attractive for most such holders.

  14. #933
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    4,826
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3271
    Likes (Received)
    3688

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Not so fast.... China's holding of US debt instruments are way down vs "whole world".

    Big hunk of what THEY hold, yes. Even so, it is just over HALF of what they held just a few years ago.

    Much smaller hunk of what WE owe to all-holders. PRC holdings are under 5% by now, I'd guess.

    Part of why DJT (or his minders..) picked a very good time of the century to try and get this PRC/USA hassle sorted.

    Earlier was premature. Later might be impossible.
    show me where they owned twice as much as now. Its not down but has been going sideways for awhile

    National debt of the United States - Wikipedia

    Correction, you are correct as a percentage of all foriegn debt China's is down, but its not down in dollars and yauns. Basically it hasn't risen while debt to others has

  15. #934
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,730
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8626

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    show me where they owned twice as much as now. Its not down but has been going sideways for awhile

    National debt of the United States - Wikipedia

    Correction, you are correct as a percentage of all foriegn debt China's is down, but its not down in dollars and yauns. Basically it hasn't risen while debt to others has
    Oh yee of the instant-gratification ear-bud and EYE CANDY generation?
    Pity you've forgotten how to grok the printed word! [1]



    Pull up the very article you just cited in basic whole web-page mode. Look a few millimeters to the right of that graph:


    Historically, the share held by foreign governments had grown over time, rising from 13 percent of the public debt in 1988[52] to 34 percent in 2015.[53] In more recent years, foreign ownership has retreated both in percent of total debt and total dollar amounts. China's maximum holding of 9.1% or $1.3 trillion of US debt occurred in 2011, subsequently reduced to 5% in 2018.
    But T-bills ain't the whole story.

    PRC entities have ALSO made a major reduction in FDI into the USA's businesses.

    Fearful - and rightfully so - they might not be able to get full value out, those businesses take a hit - or get back out at all, s**t keeps going any which way but to their benefit.

    I've no klew if DJT "personally" groks all this, strategically. Or not. I'd be a hard one to convince!

    But whom do you know as gets a greater volume of expert advice, wanted or NOT?

    And then... has the flexible persona AND national flexibility to make effective use of it?

    PRC's team have done a damned fine economic job, their side. They have a great deal more reason to HAVE to do, also more challenges than good options.

    [1] This article and the hundreds of others a retired finance guru with real money involved would be reading all the time. It's what we do, our family, Hong Kong more than USA.

  16. #935
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    4,826
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3271
    Likes (Received)
    3688

    Default

    sigh, if only your word count would do the same. The amount they hold has changed little in the last decade. I acknowledged that as a percentage of total foriegn owned debt it has dropped, but they still hold about the same value of debt. None of which matters to the point that almost 1/3 of your large debt is foreign held.

  17. #936
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Vt USA
    Posts
    6,799
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    748
    Likes (Received)
    2356

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Likely have to tariff an extra 25 % of American worker's paycheck as a duty on income to pay for the free stuff budget.

    Oh I almost forgot.. We need to build a luxury free hotel and free restaurant at the border.. Likely Trump would like to build it
    on his tab.
    And let out the rooms on a government contract.
    I hear from friends in Sweden, that is how the immigrant mess they are in really got it's start.
    Land lords! Who would think?
    A

  18. #937
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Vt USA
    Posts
    6,799
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    748
    Likes (Received)
    2356

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Oh yee of the instant-gratification ear-bud and EYE CANDY generation?
    Pity you've forgotten how to grok the printed word! [1]



    Pull up the very article you just cited in basic whole web-page mode. Look a few millimeters to the right of that graph:



    But T-bills ain't the whole story.

    PRC entities have ALSO made a major reduction in FDI into the USA's businesses.

    Fearful - and rightfully so - they might not be able to get full value out, those businesses take a hit - or get back out at all, s**t keeps going any which way but to their benefit.

    I've no klew if DJT "personally" groks all this, strategically. Or not. I'd be a hard one to convince!

    But whom do you know as gets a greater volume of expert advice, wanted or NOT?

    And then... has the flexible persona AND national flexibility to make effective use of it?

    PRC's team have done a damned fine economic job, their side. They have a great deal more reason to HAVE to do, also more challenges than good options.

    [1] This article and the hundreds of others a retired finance guru with real money involved would be reading all the time. It's what we do, our family, Hong Kong more than USA.
    just in case any readers don't grok grok

    Grok - Wikipedia

  19. #938
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Vt USA
    Posts
    6,799
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    748
    Likes (Received)
    2356

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    sigh, if only your word count would do the same. The amount they hold has changed little in the last decade. I acknowledged that as a percentage of total foriegn owned debt it has dropped, but they still hold about the same value of debt. None of which matters to the point that almost 1/3 of your large debt is foreign held.
    Those foreign people are not wanting to see their retirement funds get pissed away on some tariff spat, that's for sure. Leverage! On our side.

  20. #939
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    2,674
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    473
    Likes (Received)
    1896

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    Remember, the House controls spending and ran on CR includining the bush tax cuts.
    You can credit him with spending 900m in stimulus...passed under bush BTW.
    About half of which were tax cuts.
    Also credit him for the sequester which stabilized spending.

    OTOH trump passed tax cuts and spending increases.

    Don’t forget Obama entered office with a recession skewing GDP numbers down, trump entered on a record setting growth trend.
    You really live in an alternate reality Miguel. This is all a matter of public record.

    When Bush took office he had a "balanced budget". I put that in quotes because it's not really true, but it is how the budget works.

    We had the 9/11 attacks, we had a recession, Bush put through the tax cuts. The "balanced budget" turned into deficits. They were about $125-$150 Billion a year. By 2006, the economy was doing well, the deficits were on a downward path. The GOP controlled Congress was passing budgets and appropriation bills under regular order- committee, full house, conference, etc.

    In the 2006 election the dems took both houses of Congress. This was the end of regular order. So in 2007, they passed a giant omnibus bill at the end of the session, holding Defense hostage as per their normal tactic. The deficit exploded from $161 Billion in 2007 to $458 Billion in 2008.

    Then we had the financial crash. Bush signed the TARP, which was $700 Billion. He spent $350 Billion of that to bail out the banks and Fanny/Freddie, and the other half was left for Obama.

    Obama spent the other half on the auto bailout, cash for clunkers, and a few other things. This was a direct violation of the TARP, which required the money to go only to the financial system- and when it was paid back, the money was to be returned to the treasury.

    The money that was given to the banks was pretty much all repaid in 2009 or 2010. The bankers didn't like the idea of the Gov't limiting their bonuses.

    2009 spending:

    In addition to the $350 Billion in TARP money.

    Obama was sworn in on January 20, 2009. On February 17, he signed into law the stimulus act. This bill was written before Obama even took office. $831 Billion, borrowed from China. Obama gave China direct access to the Treasury at this time- not even the Fed can buy treasury bonds direct- they have to go through a primary dealer. There are 2 primary dealers- JPMC and BONY-Mellon. These are the only entities authorized to purchase bonds from the US Treasury.

    Ten days later, Obama submitted his first budget. The House took that budget and added an across the board 12% increase on everything except defense. They had a super majority in the Senate, so it all went through.

    That was the last time the democrats did a budget or appropriations bill. It was CR's from then on.

    Democrats had checked the boxes for spending and the economy in Obama's first month. They moved on the health care and the rest of the year was spent on Obamacare.

    It was CR's every year after that. No budgets, no appropriations bills until the 2012 Ryan-Murray budget for FY13.

    The recession ended in June 2009. Obama's tax, spend and regulate everything policies were the reason the recovery was so awful for everyone. We didn't even return to the pre-recession employment level until 2011. I;m not talking about the unemployment rate- I'm talking about total employment- how long it took to gain back the jobs lost in the recession.

    2016 GDP growth was 1.5%. That is hardly a "record setting" growth trend. Stop playing semantics. Yes, the deficit went down under Obama, because his first year's deficit was $1.4 TRILLION.

    $350 Billion of that you can attribute to Bush, the rest is Obama's.

  21. Likes adh2000, cnctoolcat liked this post
  22. #940
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Norfolk England
    Posts
    2,285
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2631
    Likes (Received)
    1695

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    Don't go to those rallies! They will mess with your head.
    Much to late,it has already happened.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •