New higher Tariffs from trade talks - Page 74
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 74 of 76 FirstFirst ... 24647273747576 LastLast
Results 1,461 to 1,480 of 1520
  1. #1461
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    25,645
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8076

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nyc123 View Post
    If this is the case, then why does virtually no one have zero tariffs? Only Hong Kong and Singapore and maybe one or two others.
    Hong Kong, Singapore, Andorra, Campione d' Italia, Monaco, many of the Caribbean and Pacific islands, Mauritius, La Reunion, etc basically ALL have import/export rules (prohibitions, mostly) and "some" tariffs.

    They are just rather minimal and do not affect as much of what is traded - nor as heavily - as most other places. What they DO cover can be very costly. Automobiles, Singapore especially, as an example. All that is online. Their hooverments publish it.

  2. Likes nyc123 liked this post
  3. #1462
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    West Coast, USA
    Posts
    7,442
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    455
    Likes (Received)
    4913

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nyc123 View Post
    What's shocked me since 2016 is just how liberally slanted most of the media is. Look at the very first sentence in this article...

    "History hasn’t exactly put the “Laffer Curve” on a pedestal . . ..
    A couple thoughts occur to me.

    First question -- you initially said you were an investor from Poland. You've pretty much been on a Trump gets a bad rap bandwagon. In this day of social media trolling, perhaps you'll share a bit of your background and why you're on a machinist's forum?

    Second thought -- US media is pretty splintered now. Talk radio is clearly dominated by the right, from the days of Rush Limbaugh on.

    On the local news front, Sinclair Broadcast Group is highly conservative and also the single largest owner of TV stations in the US. It has "gamed" news stories.

    Of our two most watched partisan news sources, Fox is significantly larger than MSNBC and also has the poorest record of factual accuracy. MSNBC is mainly partisan by story selection. Fox is partisan by both story selection and simply getting stuff wrong (much of which they say is just all those talk shows). When a significant story breaks, I'll sometimes click back and forth between Fox and MSNBC. It's often as if they are reporting from two different planets.

    More to the point, it isn't bias if it's true. Given that Trump is pretty much a pathological liar, the press is sent chasing him daily. Not especially productive. But your complaint that the all the media is against him typically starts with some blatant lie. You really think the 12,000+ lies and misleading statements to date should all go unnoticed?

    Naturally, internet "news" is all over the place. You'll have everything from neo Nazis, to Russian trolls, far left nut jobs, conspiracy theorists. Takes great care to tease out the truth from these sources.

    The two main biases I see in the mainstream news are these:

    1) Editorial integrity lost to making a buck. This is the case, IMO, with both Fox and MSNBC appealing to their respective bases and CNN in beating some story (if it bleeds it leads) to death -- hanging on until viewers finally start turning it off. Personally, I rarely bother watching CNN now. The major networks, in their national coverage, aren't much better. BBC and PBS still do a decent job of actually reporting news, IMO. And by watching both Fox and MSNBC, sometimes a fuller view might emerge.

    Might also add that Trump's election was pretty much a creation of this CNN type of (keeping them tuning in) news media. Trump has said (per his lawyer) that the only reason he entered the race was to give his brand more exposure. The news media followed him like puppy dogs, from the beginning. Remember the crowd of actors he paid to raptly listen as he announced his candidacy -- saying Mexicans were pretty much just murderers and rapists - later assuring they'd pay for the wall that would save us?

    2) Real journalists somewhat aghast at the world they find themselves in. These men and women typically went to college, rubbed shoulders with a variety of people, are smarter than the average bear, and (despite the anything-for-viewers/readers ethic of #1) have some sense of journalistic integrity. I personally know two with national profiles. You'd be right to think they're somewhat aghast at the political BS they're currently seeing.

    As for Bloomberg giving faint praise to the Laffer curve and Trump's singling it out as the most noteworthy bit of economic lore -- there's a bit of history here given that Trump has repeatedly put economic personalities who'll kiss his tail and rich guys he happens to know rather than actual economists or competent managers in charge of fiscal affairs.

  4. #1463
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    25,645
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8076

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    Economists if you found a good one today they would be keeping a low profile and use their skill to make money. Poor fellows.
    LOL! One of the best I knew was also a Lawster. Strategist for a major Corp, Day Times. Taught evening courses for fun, a few evenings a week. Students had easily as much fun, and learned "real world" things never put into the books!

    I married the other one. Hung out here, now touring Australia - yet again - whilst Hong Kong goes mad. Even so, there are homes spare, elsewhere, and we don't miss a lot of meals.

    Econ were only taught starting elementary school, we'd at least know HOW we are screwing-up, even if not why.

    That second part is prolly a mob psychology course?


  5. #1464
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    People's Republic
    Posts
    2,697
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    194
    Likes (Received)
    1974

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nyc123 View Post
    Krugman was wrong. He was given the Nobel. Stiglitz was wrong about NAFTA and even now admits it, he was given the Nobel. Merton and Scholes were wrong and almost caused a financial crisis. They were given the Nobel. I can keep going if you want to look dumber. Many other economists were wrong, yet they were given awards, or are continually still held up as if they are oracles. It's over - there is no debate to be had here anymore. If you apply your logic to everyone, then you will be ridiculing them all. Just own it.
    You are a fool

    Krugman was wrong, uuhhh, so what, was he wrong on the things he received an award for? After he was proven wrong? I think not
    Stiglitz received a Nobel for NAFTA? Probably not
    Hmm, interesting
    Merton and Scholes caused a financial crisis? REally? By themselves


    This is wildly simplistic and ignorant thinking

    trumpski awarded Laffer based specifically on his disproven theory

    because he is a fool

  6. #1465
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Maryland- USA
    Posts
    3,090
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1814
    Likes (Received)
    2016

    Default

    Easy Gus- we can’t be calling each other fools or any other name.

    ‘Play the ball not the man’....

  7. #1466
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    People's Republic
    Posts
    2,697
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    194
    Likes (Received)
    1974

    Default

    GO look at his posts, just another boring troll

    I think there is one mention once of a machine tool

  8. #1467
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    25,645
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8076

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    trumpski awarded Laffer based specifically on his disproven theory

    because he is a fool
    Presuming you mean "both"?

    I suggest we keep on taking advantage of the poor bastards as to making money for our own selves before some one or several more evil bastards wises them up that the rest of us should be failing.

    Wouldn't want them to shift gears and go about seeing to make it so, 'stead of mostly staying TF out of the road whilst we chikn's do the actual heavy-lifting.

    See also UK. See also China.

    It ain't the loudness of the air-horns as powers a locomotive. It's all them millions of little molecules inside the cylinders of the Diesel, or them myriad electrons in the wire of a motor as are pushing like Hell for tomorrow morning.

  9. #1468
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    People's Republic
    Posts
    2,697
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    194
    Likes (Received)
    1974

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Presuming you mean "both". I suggest we keep on taking advantage of the poor bastards as to making money for our own selves before someone more evil bastard wises them up that the rest of us should be failing, and they go about seeing to making it so, 'stead of mostly staying TF out of the road.
    is this word salad supposed to mean something?

    Really, it makes no sense whatsoever

  10. #1469
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    25,645
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8076

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    is this word salad supposed to mean something?

    Really, it makes no sense whatsoever
    It WAS a test, after all. Why are we not surprised?

    To score it?

    Molecules NOT able to move those cylinders are passengers or part of the parasitic drag on progress.

    Electrons NOT helping rotate the motor are but atmospheric static.

    Folks running a railroad.. or an economy . are aware of 'em.

    But they do not get to control the routing.

    You didn't really need the stress, anyway.

  11. #1470
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    52
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    14
    Likes (Received)
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    False equivalence and tiresome.

    Krugman’s quip about the internet was a joke the went over a lot of people’s heads.
    please explain how this was a joke. I don't see how it was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Krugman went on to earn a Noble Prize for those things he does model and is highly respected for that work.
    He is also widely ridiculed. Here's several things he's been wrong about, and here's a pair of economists that have a whole website dedicated to refuting him. So since you want to bring up his model, how about the fact that he said the economy would quickly bounce back in 2009? He used modeling to do that, as most economists inevitably do. He was wrong then, too. As he has been on many other things.

    What things has Paul Krugman been very wrong about? - Quora
    Contra Krugman: The Podcast that Refutes Krugman Every Week

    This guy has been wrong again and again. And like I said, so have pretty much all economists. If we're going to play this one, then you have to play it all the way out. And that means ridiculing them all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    You are as much as saying that Krugman is still going around predicting that fax machine is more important than the internet and has a cadre of advocates basing national tax policy on his work.
    Well he can't do that now, can he? Obviously he's been proven wrong. It would be like the majority of economists who didn't see the last financial crisis coming trying to say they were right. How can you even make a case for that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Laffer is doing just that- he is carrying on with a theory proven wrong long before his curve was scratched on a napkin.
    Yet again, there are plenty of models which haven't held. Do you want to go down this road, too? From CGE model predictions for trade agreements, to forecasting for GDP growth, even to general things like the Philips Curve. You can't just pick and choose who to pick on unless you want to make it clear you have a bias.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Economists have a lot in common with geologists.
    They both are specialists with high training in their fields.
    Even when in error with a major body of work they are still more qualified than the rest of us to hold discourse in their respective fields.
    Could not possibly disagree more. Geology is nothing like economics. You don't have a controlled lab where you can simply pull levers or add this and that and come up with concrete laws that always hold. This is why geology is like most sciences and economics is not. Economists get it wrong all the time. In fact, it is many times people who are outside the spectre of economics that end up being right. Economists are nothing more than people like the rest of us. You either have grounds to draw a conclusion/make a prediction or not. It's as simple as that. Having a PhD in economics does not make you any more likely to predict economic future than someone with a bachelor's degree in another subject. That is just the reality. There are tons of trading firms like hedge funds, proprietary trading firms, and even still investment banks that employ traders, and most traders are not economists, they have mathematics backgrounds or even all the way down to people with music or english degrees. I used to work in that industry, and I can tell you firsthand, many people disregard what economists say and they do their own work. If economists were the best predictors, everyone would simply follow them. I think you need to do some real thinking on this, because what you said there is totally ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Krugman was not in error in his main body of work
    Correction: "except for all the other times he got it wrong."

    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Laffer- judge for yourself.
    How about being fair and judging all economists by the same metric instead of just one that gets you triggered because of associating with the president? This is silly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    But please spare us the fax machine take down- it’s not what you think it is.
    Burden of proof lies on you, not me, to prove that it was a joke.

    Actually, here I went ahead and did it for you. He admitted he was wrong.

    "It was a thing for the Times magazine’s 100th anniversary, written as if by someone looking back from 2098, so the point was to be fun and provocative, not to engage in careful forecasting; I mean, there are lines in there about St. Petersburg having more skyscrapers than New York, which was not a prediction, just a thought-provoker.

    The magazine celebrated its 100th anniversary in 1996, not 1998, however, and although Krugman did write a piece for the 29 September 1996 edition that matches the above description, it did not contain a passage contrasting the effect of the Internet to that of the fax machine.

    Levitt and Dubner correctly cited an article by Krugman in the 10 June 1998 issue of Red Herring magazine as the actual source of the quote:

    Smart people love to make smart-sounding predictions, no matter how wrong they may turn out to be. This phenomenon was beautifully captured in a 1998 article for Red Herring magazine called “Why Most Economists’ Predictions Are Wrong.” It was written by Paul Krugman, himself an economist, who went on to win the Nobel Prize. Krugman points out that too many economists’ predictions fail because the overestimate the impact of future technologies, and then he makes a few predictions of his own. Here’s one: “The growth of the Internet will slow drastically, as the flaw in ‘Metcalfe’s law’ — which states that the number of potential connections in a network is proportional to the square of the number of participants — becomes apparent: most people have nothing to say to each other! By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet’s impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine’s.”

    When we asked Krugman about the confusion over the provenance of the quote, he said he couldn’t remember writing the Red Herring article, but he didn’t shy from admitting his mistake:

    I must have tossed it off quickly (at the time I was mainly focused on the Asian financial crisis!), then later conflated it in my memory with the NYT piece. Anyway, I was clearly trying to be provocative, and got it wrong, which happens to all of us sometimes."


    Sure you did, Paul. Just like the other times you were wrong. Anyway, so much for the joke idea now, huh?

  12. #1471
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Maryland- USA
    Posts
    3,090
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1814
    Likes (Received)
    2016

    Default

    I’m done with you.

    Please develop a more rational means of discourse.
    Do you actually believe my problem with Laffer is based on anything which occurred over the last twenty years.

    “gets you triggered because of associating with the president? This is silly.”

  13. #1472
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    52
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    14
    Likes (Received)
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    First question -- you initially said you were an investor from Poland. You've pretty much been on a Trump gets a bad rap bandwagon. In this day of social media trolling, perhaps you'll share a bit of your background and why you're on a machinist's forum?
    I don't remember ever saying I was from Poland. I was in Poland at the time I registered, but I am a US citizen, born and raised. I got interested in all of this after the election - I was actually in Asia at the time and was running into countless barriers there trying to setup a few different small businesses, nothing huge. But I could see from the regulations and culture that the guy had a point when he said trade was unfair and the media was just trying to lambast him acting as if it were a free trade world. I didn't vote for Trump, nor did I or really do I support him. I'm not a fan of his, I'm just a fan of sanity and reality. What he is saying with respect to this has some merit. Anyway, I kept reading and studying things, and now I'm just working part-time at a furniture parts supplier to learn more, kinda switching jobs here and there to get some hands-on exp. May go to a molding company soon and switch it up. I'm also playing around with CAD on my own and going to a makerspace. I'm here because I got interested in this and this seems like the forum for this sort of thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    Of our two most watched partisan news sources, Fox is significantly larger than MSNBC and also has the poorest record of factual accuracy. MSNBC is mainly partisan by story selection. Fox is partisan by both story selection and simply getting stuff wrong (much of which they say is just all those talk shows). When a significant story breaks, I'll sometimes click back and forth between Fox and MSNBC. It's often as if they are reporting from two different planets.
    I know, I hate Fox, too. I hated seeing what they were saying about Obama not being born in the US or the other assorted nonsense. However, MSNBC and the others outright lie now, too. A key example is the "both sides" thing. Trump did not say neo nazis were fine people. He explicitly denounced them. And the people he was talking about were the other protestors there to protest the statues being taken down. The NYT even wrote an article on this mentioning the non-white-supremacist or non-neo-nazi protest groups. If you want to see for yourself, lookup PragerU "very fine people" or "both sides". I'm not a fan of PragerU so much, either, but facts are facts, and everything the guy in that video said was true and came with citations.
    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    More to the point, it isn't bias if it's true. Given that Trump is pretty much a pathological liar, the press is sent chasing him daily. Not especially productive. But your complaint that the all the media is against him typically starts with some blatant lie. You really think the 12,000+ lies and misleading statements to date should all go unnoticed?
    Of course not. But because someone is guilty of X does not justify claiming they are guilty of y, z, a, b, and c. That is essentially what they are doing. And there's a clear coverup everyday of leaving out crucial context that would allow people to have a better understanding of issues like immigration or trade. It's either because they don't want people to get the full context because they're like Fox, or it's because they aren't doing their job and are too stupid to report things well.


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    1) Editorial integrity lost to making a buck. This is the case, IMO, with both Fox and MSNBC appealing to their respective bases and CNN in beating some story (if it bleeds it leads) to death -- hanging on until viewers finally start turning it off. Personally, I rarely bother watching CNN now. The major networks, in their national coverage, aren't much better. BBC and PBS still do a decent job of actually reporting news, IMO. And by watching both Fox and MSNBC, sometimes a fuller view might emerge.

    Might also add that Trump's election was pretty much a creation of this CNN type of (keeping them tuning in) news media. Trump has said (per his lawyer) that the only reason he entered the race was to give his brand more exposure. The news media followed him like puppy dogs, from the beginning. Remember the crowd of actors he paid to raptly listen as he announced his candidacy -- saying Mexicans were pretty much just murderers and rapists - later assuring they'd pay for the wall that would save us?

    2) Real journalists somewhat aghast at the world they find themselves in. These men and women typically went to college, rubbed shoulders with a variety of people, are smarter than the average bear, and (despite the anything-for-viewers/readers ethic of #1) have some sense of journalistic integrity. I personally know two with national profiles. You'd be right to think they're somewhat aghast at the political BS they're currently seeing.

    As for Bloomberg giving faint praise to the Laffer curve and Trump's singling it out as the most noteworthy bit of economic lore -- there's a bit of history here given that Trump has repeatedly put economic personalities who'll kiss his tail and rich guys he happens to know rather than actual economists or competent managers in charge of fiscal affairs.
    I agree with you.

  14. #1473
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    52
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    14
    Likes (Received)
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    You are a fool

    Krugman was wrong, uuhhh, so what, was he wrong on the things he received an award for? After he was proven wrong? I think not
    Stiglitz received a Nobel for NAFTA? Probably not
    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    trumpski awarded Laffer based specifically on his disproven theory
    It's important to point out that the Laffer curve has not been proven wrong. All this is talking about is his personal belief about how that curve is shaped. So what you're saying here about his curve being disproven is incorrect. His opinion on the shape of the curve is separate.

    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Merton and Scholes caused a financial crisis? REally? By themselves
    Yep. LTCM was a pretty big danger, but they cleaned it all up before it got out of control. Merton and Scholes were thought to be brilliant. Afterall, they came up with the Black-scholes model along with Black. And in the end, because prices didn't work out as they thought they would in the "brilliant" models they had, they almost ended up causing a recession. There's a whole book on this called "Why Genius Failed". They got the Nobel prize the year before it collapsed. To be fair, they are brilliant people. I'm just pointing out the fact that so is Laffer. They all have merits. I don't know of anyone that has a spotless record predicting the future. Some have better records than others. Regardless, there was no reason in that article to start it off that way: it was clearly because they simply do not like Trump. That's fine, but they are a news organization, and a financial news one at that, not a political one like Fox or CNN. That is a real shame they've let partisan bias takeover a key topic they're supposed to be focused on.

  15. #1474
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    52
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    14
    Likes (Received)
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    I’m done with you.

    Please develop a more rational means of discourse.
    You apply a double-standard to Laffer vs everyone else. That seems pretty irrational to me from the get go. Disagreeing with him on the shape of the curve is one thing - starting an article off as "despite so and so, our president just went ahead and gave another idiot an award" is so clearly biased that claiming otherwise makes me wonder what rationality you even have. How you can sit there with a straight face and say it isn't is beyond me. You won't find the same opening paragraphs for other economists given that award. That is a clear bias from Bloomberg.

  16. #1475
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Edison Washington USA
    Posts
    10,235
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    950
    Likes (Received)
    5263

    Default

    I would like to point out that Argentina is so screwy, in so many ways, both good and bad, that tariffs there are not a model we can learn anything from when applied to the USA.
    They do have high tariffs, or duties. But they also have a completely different tax system, economic base, political parties, and popular expectations and traditions.

    No real lessons about tariffs that we can get from them.

    Their tariffs have helped some, but not all, domestic manufacturing.
    But they also tax exports very heavily, and shoot their own manufacturers in the foot when they try to export.
    They also have a long history of oligarchs and the government co-owning vital industries, with much more government subsidies than we do.
    They have really really tight financial laws that prevent money transfers into and out of the country in a normal fashion, which affects the average person but not the 100 families that run the place.

    Anyway- its just too different from here.

    I do think its a telling sign in Trump's own belief that Tariffs are Good and the Chinese Are Paying them that tariffs will wait til after christmas for consumer goods. Almost as if he thinks it might not be the best thing, politically, for people to have to pay more for their electronics, shoes, and toys due to tariffs. But I thought that that he said the tariffs dont affect our economy or ordinary people?

  17. Likes digger doug liked this post
  18. #1476
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    25,645
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8076

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    I would like to point out that Argentina is so screwy, in so many ways, both good and bad,
    And that it's a tragic thing, walking, so much they COULD have.

    Just look across the fluid-film mud flat. Uruguay, with far fewer resources, has for quite some time now, been on their own feet and doing rather a decent job for their population.

    Perfect, not.

    But at least they've not been periodically machine-gunning their own feet off at the hip, economically.

    Long time coming, and not easy, but finally earned:

    Uruguay Economy: Population, GDP, Inflation, Business, Trade, FDI, Corruption

    Extract:
    Uruguay is Latin America’s least corrupt country.
    Mind .... that was Chile for close-on 150 years. Up until too damned long ago, already.

  19. #1477
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Edison Washington USA
    Posts
    10,235
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    950
    Likes (Received)
    5263

    Default

    Uruguay is great- I go there every year.
    And, its true, the leftist former president, who legalized pot, was pretty good for Uruguay- but the real reason they do so well is twofold- pretty beaches, and a safe place for people to park money in secret. For decades, until very recently, Uruguay had bank secrecy laws that were a huge source of income.

    They dont make anything in Uruguay- no factories, almost everything is imported from China. Kind of depressing, especially when you come from Argentina, where they make steel, cars, motorcycles, hot water heaters, stoves, sinks, silverware, plates, furniture, clothes, shoes, espresso machines, leather goods, rope, transformers, drill presses, and hundreds of other things.

    I actually sought out some made in Uruguay shirts the last time I was there- found ONE store in Montevideo that sold the traditional stuff, made from Uruguayan wool and cotton. Everybody else sells Chinese sneakers and Bangladeshi polo shirts.

    I guess it depends on who you want to benefit in your economic calculations.
    The Uruguayans went for the cheap chinese stuff. The Argentines take pride in Industria Argentina. I have things like whetstones and chisels, sewing needles and glasses frames, frying pans and stainless steel sinks, all proudly made in Argentina, and all good quality. But all only able to compete due to the tariffs, which often reach 100%, on imports. Drives people nuts that its the most expensive place in the world to buy an Iphone, but you can get good quality local sisal rope, or hand stiched mens handkerchiefs, or raised aluminum mugs with the images of soccer stars in relief on them.

  20. Likes digger doug, Trueturning, barbter liked this post
  21. #1478
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    14,059
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Thank you for taking the time to make that detailed write up Ries.

    I thought that maybe Argentina's high tariffs could show
    what would happen to the USa.

    But I see what you mean how they are very different.

    FWIW I read on a SA news site that the Kerschners are back in power in Argentina, so there will be changes coming soon.

    Google Translate
    Last edited by digger doug; 08-15-2019 at 07:07 AM.

  22. #1479
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    West Virginia
    Posts
    46
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    21

    Default

    My wife is Uruguayan, now a naturalized US citizen, and she’s a HUGE proponent of democracy. If we could get the US population to get out and vote with 10% of the energy she puts into it we’d be living in a completely different country.

    BUT, that support of democracy didn’t happen because of cute little stickers declaring you voted. They were under a series of (US incited) military dictatorships well into the 1970’s and dealing with the entrenched cronies of those administrations well into the late 1980’s. They know what high level corruption really means and they don’t want to go back.

    That’s not to say the place isn’t jam packed with petty corruption. Local and mid level officials are cartoonishly corrupt and the absurdly large gap between the haves and have nots drives a lot of street level violence. Iron fences, secure garage doors and big dogs are almost as common as the mate (a sort of tea) they’re all drinking.

    But they’re a forward looking bunch and they’re trying to address those issues. Instead of whining about the prices of beef, leather and wool (their central industries) they looked at global market opportunities and now they’re exporting huge quantities of rice to Japan, oranges to several Asian countries, they’re building a deep water harbor to expedite iron ore exports at market leading competitive pricing and a bunch of other initiatives. That’s not to mention their excellent education system, free public transit for students and other things that not only turn out blindingly smart students, they make it attractive to even the poor kids and keep them in school.

    They’re solving problems, not lobbying for stasis that supports special interests at the expense of everyone else. Sure, they’re working on a micro scale (they’ve only got six million people in the whole country), but that doesn’t mean that they’re not doing a lot of things that our leaders could learn from.

  23. #1480
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    25,645
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8076

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    ..especially when you come from Argentina, where they make steel, cars, motorcycles, hot water heaters, stoves, sinks, silverware, plates, furniture, clothes, shoes, espresso machines, leather goods, rope, transformers, drill presses, and hundreds of other things.
    Including what was reputed to be the largest milling machine the world had yet seen. Photo I saw, ISTR it looked as if one could park a Diesel locomotive on the table. Hydropower goods need.

    Wasn't much of that wife and I could haul-home (via Rio), but the Orfila link (Basque, BTW, as was Dr E, Guevarra) were not our only Argentine link, Cable & Wireless as it was..

    So we avoided the rots-in-a-week touristy leather goods, got shunted-off to a lovely out of the way studio for a custom his and hers made where wealthy Argies get their own done. Both have lasted over 20 years. So far.

    Of course.

    The other thing one takes away, is that when sore WEARY of over-salted, over-pork-fatted, overly root-crop laden "salat" in German-speaking Europe, just go and find an Argentine restaurant.

    "Back in the day" one might have to bribe the staff to allow two people to split the standard one-kilo per-head steak a slender 95-110 lb Argentine beauty of indeterminate age - life-long carnivore as she is - puts away with a PROPER salad, "contorni" (mostly ethnic Italian, after all) and heaping sides of seriously good fries only Chile has a variety to beat. Chile's one resembles the taste of the notorious "Irish Cobbler" we love in up-hollow WBGA, actually. Raised for our OWN tables, great taste, but low yield and too lumpy and ugly for market.

    Needless to say, that Argentine lass - or grandmother - gains no significant weight, whilst the men grow solid and muscular off the same portion.

    Lot to like about Argentina, but it can be damned hard work to keep it in mind!


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •