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  1. #1621
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Yes. Fifty pages of utter dogshit. "Offshore yuan ..." what a crock

    This shit - CNY and CNH - is a fantasy, as far as real world currency goes. Inside China you get to use renminbi. Period. And the China government controls that. No one else. Period.
    That "article" is just the NASDAQ website explaining the difference. The only crock of shit here is the stuff coming out of your posts. Other governments also control this the same way. I already explained that more than once.

    This is not different.

    They are still vulnerable to foreign exchange markets. Other countries like Malaysia have in the past said "you can only deal through us". They still had currency crises.

    You can keep playing denial all you want. This is old now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyc123 View Post
    That "article" is just the NASDAQ website explaining the difference.
    Right. The same people that told us how brilliant the quants were, that computers and genius programmers had broken the boom-bust cycle, that we better buy property NOW, they aren't making any more dirt ! Refinance your home, take out that buried equity ? Take out a second AND a third ! No time like the present, it's all gonna be up up up without end ! CDO's forever !

    These fucking assholes aren't worth the air they consume, but you insist on believing them. Well here, I'll give you a chance to prove they are smarter than me. I have friends with rmb they can't convert easily. Can't convert at all, in fact. They'll give you 5%. Many thousands of dollars. Figure out how to do it with this "overseas yuan" shit. They give you rmb, you give them dollars. No problem, right ? Nasdaq Press says it works !

    They are still vulnerable to foreign exchange markets.
    You find me a foreign exchange market that takes rmb and gives out dollars and I will be a wealthy person. There is no such thing. That's why Bo Xilai's wife poisoned the Englishman. That's why there are yellow cows. People are killed over this stuff. A legal foreign exchange market for rmb does not exist or people would be using it. Heavily.

  3. #1623
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Right. The same people that told us how brilliant the quants were, that computers and genius programmers had broken the boom-bust cycle, that we better buy property NOW, they aren't making any more dirt ! Refinance your home, take out that buried equity ? Take out a second AND a third ! No time like the present, it's all gonna be up up up without end ! CDO's forever !
    Oh, you're one of those. NASDAQ is just an exchange. They're explaining what different assets are. They do not advise people, nor did they say any of the stuff you just said. But hey, it's pointless....you're going to think whatever you're going to think in spite of any evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Well here, I'll give you a chance to prove they are smarter than me. I have friends with rmb they can't convert easily. Can't convert at all, in fact. They'll give you 5%. Many thousands of dollars. Figure out how to do it with this "overseas yuan" shit. They give you rmb, you give them dollars. No problem, right ? Nasdaq Press says it works !
    Simple. Go to any foreign exchange broker. There is no control on that. That's why it's offshore. You didn't read any of that, did you? This is not debatable. There is nothing stopping people from exchanging yuan for dollars. They do it all day long. What you're referring to is the onshore market.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    You find me a foreign exchange market that takes rmb and gives out dollars and I will be a wealthy person. There is no such thing..... A legal foreign exchange market for rmb does not exist or people would be using it. Heavily.
    They do. It's called the offshore market. Get educated. You look stupid right now.

    This is bought and sold every day. USD CNH | US Dollar Chinese Yuan Offshore - Investing.com The central bank intervenes in this buy buying/selling yuan/dollars/other currencies to try to keep it stable. That is, they try to help guide the yuan against other people buying and selling yuan.

    Refer back to the NASDAQ page if you don't understand it. You're confusing offshore with onshore. Several countries also have this setup, not just China.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    You find me a foreign exchange market that takes rmb and gives out dollars and I will be a wealthy person. A foreign exchange market for rmb does not exist or people would be using it. Heavily.
    That you put nyc continually in his place is more than OK with me as all he has is a too vivid imagination about what goes on where and how.

    However I might be able to help you become "wealthy".

    We had Chinese friends visiting not too long ago and they hadn't changed their CNY (RMB) to our currency yet. Apparently it can be done but I'll find out sometime this week if it in fact can be done and how. What they did was use their credit cards to pay for what they bought while here and that was never a problem. Even an ice cream can be paid for by card.

    If CNY can be changed to DKK here with no problem then DKK can be changed to USD even easier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyc123 View Post
    Get educated. You look stupid right now.
    You've quickly become an offensive little pipsqueak considering you're a newbie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    If CNY can be changed to DKK here with no problem then DKK can be changed to USD even easier.
    You're allowed $50,000 per year, legally. Per person. (Maybe children are excluded, have to be an adult ?) That's why the tourist thing with credit cards works. Chinese people spend a lot overseas but this all goes through a Chinese bank. As I mentioned, it is thoroughly controlled by China, not Goldman-Sachs. At the rate the government of China has decided, not Goldman-Sachs or Deutschebank. They can stop that any time they want, or upgrade it, or whatever. Beijing controls that, not outside forces.

    But as of now you can't do more than that. And business doesn't work too well with that limit

    That's why this whole thing that nyc is fixated on is silly. There's no way to exchange rmb for other currency without going through a Chinese bank. (Okay, you can do $500 at the currency exhange counter in the airport, for a ridiculous fee. Ouch. And you can do some in HK at the currency exchange places. But not enough to make a splash.) The banks are a bureau of the government. Beijing controls this thoroughly.

    If they did not, do you think Mrs Gu would have had to murder the Englishman ? If there were a way to convert rmb to pounds, you better believe a man in Bo's position would have known about it and taken advantage of it. There's no need for murder if you can just walk over to the NASDAQ Currency Exchange Store and swap money.

    I have a theory that this is what was originally behind the Donald's tariffs. The banks have wanted for years to get their paws into the vast pile of loot that lives inside China, but China won't allow it. That's where the "manipulates their currency" crap comes from, too. Well too fucking bad because it ain't gonna happen. Beijing is not stoopid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    That you put nyc continually in his place is more than OK with me as all he has is a too vivid imagination about what goes on where and how.
    I'm missing where you're talking about. All I see is someone that doesn't understand the difference in onshore and offshore currency markets, nor realizes that the yuan gets traded with other currencies every day. Is it as easy to trade as EUR/USD? No. But does it get exchanged, legally, not in a black market sense every day? Yes. Foreign exchange counters at airports do it, although from what I'm seeing, not all do. There are also banks that do it, and there's Western Union. The small amounts of money you guys are talking about are one thing - banks and other large players trading is another. That's where the bulk of offshore trading is. Not at the airport for your vacation money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    That's why this whole thing that nyc is fixated on is silly. There's no way to exchange rmb for other currency without going through a Chinese bank.
    Incorrect. Here - let's take this from a different angle. Who is buying and selling the yuan offshore?

    Is it only Chinese banks?

    Of course not.

    The fact that they have foreign exchange reserves speaks to this fact. Otherwise, they would have no need for this. The PBOC intervenes in the market all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    If they did not, do you think Mrs Gu would have had to murder the Englishman ? If there were a way to convert rmb to pounds, you better believe a man in Bo's position would have known about it and taken advantage of it. There's no need for murder if you can just walk over to the NASDAQ Currency Exchange Store and swap money.
    NASDAQ is not a currency exchange. Ffs, can you please read the webpage for once? It's like one page. It gives a short overview of all of this.

    No one here has said that it is easy to get money out of China. I said more than once that they have capital controls. What you have said, though, is that the Chinese currency is whatever China says it is. That is true for the onshore market. It is not true for the offshore market.

    As I said before, what China could do is say "every yuan is worth x amount, fixed" - They do not currently do that for all the cash, swaps, forwards, and other yuan-denominated assets traded offshore between central banks, hedge funds, large corporations, sovereign wealth funds, investment banks, and other large entities. However, other countries have already done this. Malaysia did this before. It was done while in the midst of their currency tanking along with the other asian nations. This isn't new. They still had issues. They still had a recession, along with the others. The others did not do this. Did Malaysia turn around and they did not? No. In fact, Korea and Thailand turned around before they did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyc123 View Post
    I'm missing where you're talking about.
    Where or what?

    That seems to be par for the course for you no matter what the subject. I'm also wondering where you are when you can reply at the time you do. Working the nightshift or lying as to your location?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    That's why this whole thing that nyc is fixated on is silly. There's no way to exchange rmb for other currency without going through a Chinese bank.
    OK, we agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyc123 View Post
    Oh, you're one of those. NASDAQ is just an exchange. They're explaining what different assets are. They do not advise people, nor did they say any of the stuff you just said.
    You are way out of your depth. The NASDAQ Index is the part of NASDAQ everybody has heard of, but it’s only a small part of NASDAQ Inc. They’re every bit as significant as the financial information empires of Forbes, Bloomberg and WSJ and they do the exact same things as those guys. Advice, commentary, op-eds from the sane and the rabid, wealth management and everything else. Right now they’re pimping Apple and Dave & Buster’s on their homepage.

    NASDAQ information outside their Index is intrinsically slanted because they hide the bulk of their output behind the NASDAQ moniker the proles know. They put opinion and lobbying behind the NASDAQ name because it creates a sense of trust and impartiality through confusion, which is downright shady.

    Don’t feel bad that you’ve been taken in too. NASDAQ Inc. is a well oiled machine that spends a lot of money on highly skilled people who work very hard to blur and obfuscate the lines between their vast array of products and services. Read anything other than their Index with the same level of critical analysis you use with any other financial news.

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    This is just for nyc123. How many hours did you have to think about your AKA?

    Either you're wrong or everyone else is

    Is there anyone you agree with?

    You started in PM with this thread:

    Investing in a machine shop for exporting

    and have since then started 5 others. Bought a machine shop yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by IrritableBadger View Post
    You are way out of your depth. The NASDAQ Index is the part of NASDAQ everybody has heard of, but it’s only a small part of NASDAQ Inc. They’re every bit as significant as the financial information empires of Forbes, Bloomberg and WSJ and they do the exact same things as those guys. Advice, commentary, op-eds from the sane and the rabid, wealth management and everything else. Right now they’re pimping Apple and Dave & Buster’s on their homepage.

    NASDAQ information outside their Index is intrinsically slanted because they hide the bulk of their output behind the NASDAQ moniker the proles know. They put opinion and lobbying behind the NASDAQ name because it creates a sense of trust and impartiality through confusion, which is downright shady.

    Don’t feel bad that you’ve been taken in too. NASDAQ Inc. is a well oiled machine that spends a lot of money on highly skilled people who work very hard to blur and obfuscate the lines between their vast array of products and services. Read anything other than their Index with the same level of critical analysis you use with any other financial news.
    I'm not "way" out of my depth here. They are an exchange. This is a fact. They are not an advisory firm. The best you can say is that they promote things to increase trading volume for their products. They do not do mortgage-backed securities. They did not "tell people to buy real estate NOW" as he said. They're a fucking exchange. Maybe, MAYBE they have some sort of index that tracks real estate that they had - idk. But that isn't even close to the main products NASDAQ has. The whole "this is the same guys who said buy mortgages" is tin foil hat speak. According to that guy, your local Edward Jones office was in on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    This is just for nyc123. How many hours did you have to think about your AKA?

    Either you're wrong or everyone else is

    Is there anyone you agree with?

    You started in PM with this thread:

    Investing in a machine shop for exporting

    and have since then started 5 others. Bought a machine shop yet?
    What is your point?

    You always go off topic when you get cornered. You got raped repeatedly in the Brexit thread, you jump in to add nothing here....

    It's not worth me responding to you, because you're not even adding anything. You want me to nitpick with you and I'm just not biting, at least not until you add something regarding what we're talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    I'm also wondering where you are when you can reply at the time you do. Working the nightshift or lying as to your location?
    I'm in the US. I have my money work for me so I can sit around with my hand on my nuts - I don't work for a living. So I can be up at 4 am or whatever else. So no, I don't work nights. I'm lucky and thankful for that.

    Someone here must really like you, because you're about the only one that I see constantly getting personal with people and posting adding nothing more than bickering and getting off-topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyc123 View Post
    Incorrect. Here - let's take this from a different angle. Who is buying and selling the yuan offshore?

    Is it only Chinese banks?

    Of course not.
    I can tell you who, and it is NO ONE. No one who matters, anyhow. China does not give a crap about some shysters collecting baskets of pink Maos and selling them to other fly-by-night shysters. There is no "offshore yuan." It's about as big a problem as the yellow cows - the underground black market money traders.

    Sure, it happens. But it matters not, Beijing does NOT repeat NOT worry about that crap.

    Big corporations such as Shell (I have a few friends there) ALL have to go through a Chinese bank to swap currencies. And the people who control that rate are sitting in Beijing. Not in a bank building, in government. All the banks - Bank of China, Agriculture Bank, ICBC, Commercial Bank - they all do exactly what they are told.

    The claim that China has to do such-and-so because of "offshore yuan" is ludicrous. That's like saying Safeway has to worry about what a little girl does with her lemonade stand.

    The fact that they have foreign exchange reserves speaks to this fact. Otherwise, they would have no need for this.
    China has foreign exchange reserves because they do a lot of business outside China - and they do not want to be at the mercy of banks who play such games as LIBOR. They want stability and by controlling the exchange rate themselves, they get that. That is one of the reason for doing this. The government IS the bank.

    They also know that if you let other people fuck around with it, you are no longer in control. So except for a little spillage at the edges, there is no such thing as "offshore yuan". Tiny-ass foreigners may get to dabble but I bet that that is a fraud. If you "buy" rmb from one of your exchanges, do you ever see it ? Or is it some number in some shyster's bank account somewhere ? The only way you will ever know is if (when) the shyster augurs in - with your money.

    Ffs, can you please read the webpage for once? It's like one page. It gives a short overview of all of this.
    I did read it, and it's meaningless crap. It's exactly the same shit they were peddling in the early 2000's in the US, the same shit they were peddling about Chinese stocks, the same shit they were peddling about grand opportunities for "investment" in China a dozen years ago. There were so many people spouting that shit that a friend of mine did an opposite and shorted some of the popular ones, then exposed them. He did good.

    It's crap. That's what the financial press prints, pure shit.

    Oh, you're one of those.
    Yes, I am. I've lived through enough nonsense from these people that I can recognize a huge bowl of diarrhea when I see one. Frm the mid-seventies onward (which is probably just when I started looking, not when it started) everything out of the financial press has been horseshit. A con job. Fraud on a massive scale. Even Moody's, under oath, in Congress, said, "Well, our recommendations and ratings really don't mean anything. We just make it up, so we can't be responsible for the results."

    The fact that they have foreign exchange reserves speaks to this fact.
    No, it doesn't. The fact is, China does business ingternally and externally. It is ALL funnelled through the government. They control it, not a bunch of slimy banks. Ergo, claiming that the goobermint has to worry about what a bunch of slimy banks think is incorrect. They don't. They are not like your other examples. Not in size, not in abilities, not in structure.

    Can they fuck up ? Of course. But evidence that they are not likely to is that when the "Tiger Economies" of Korea etc crashed, due to following the US bankers' methods, China was one of the forces that minimized the wreckage. The IMF thanked them for that (then went on to comlain about their methods, later on.)

    No one here has said that it is easy to get money out of China. I said more than once that they have capital controls. What you have said, though, is that the Chinese currency is whatever China says it is. That is true for the onshore market. It is not true for the offshore market.
    This "offshore market" you love is a pimple on an ourang-outang's butt. China giveth a shitteth not. And quite honestly, I don't believe it exists. Not beyond the black market "Psst ! Hey buddy ! I've got san wan kuai qian in a suitcase here ! wanna trade for dollars ?"

    Once again I will note that anyone saying the words "the yuan" is labelling themselves as a person who knows not shit. NO ONE in China talks about yuan. "The yuan ? what the hell is that ?" will be your response.

    As I said before, what China could do is say "every yuan is worth x amount, fixed" - They do not currently do that ...
    Oh yes they most certainly do. Unless you go to a black market money changer (always a risk, counterfeit money is a big problem) then currency is exchanged at exactly the rate that the central government sets (minus a fee.)

    That's just how it is. Sorry.

    Find me a reputable "offshore currency broker" who can actually take suitcases of rmb and give back dollars. There's a whole lot of people who will line up at his door.

    Doesn't exist. Even buying a house overseas has become a major hassle and likely to be a failure. Real estate guys in Shanghai are dropping like flies. (The ones who sell overseas property). You think they wouldn't take advantage of your "overseas yuan" if it were possible ? Ha ! You don't know Shanghai business.

    If you want to buy a business overseas, it better be a good one or you will not get the foreign currency. If you want to buy a *machine* from overseas, it's gotta meet approval. That's one of the major ways they control what happens, economically.

    No. "Offshore yuan" makes no difference whatsoever to whatever happens to the China economy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyc123 View Post
    1. It's not worth me responding to you, because you're not even adding anything. You want me to nitpick with you and I'm just not biting, at least not until you add something regarding what we're talking about.

    2. I'm in the US. I have my money work for me so I can sit around with my hand on my nuts - I don't work for a living. So I can be up at 4 am or whatever else. So no, I don't work nights. I'm lucky and thankful for that.

    3. Someone here must really like you, because you're about the only one that I see constantly getting personal with people and posting adding nothing more than bickering and getting off-topic.
    ad 1. And yet you do.

    ad 2. Try removing your hand now and then. Is your surname Bates and were you known as a kid as Master Bates?

    ad 3. Maybe I can learn from you on how not be personal LMAO

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyc123 View Post
    I'm not "way" out of my depth here. They are an exchange. This is a fact. Maybe, MAYBE they have some sort of index that tracks real estate that they had - idk.
    IDK seems to sum it up for you. Instead of bothering to look for yourself you’re just spouting off about things you simply don’t have a good understanding of. NASDAQ in a big corporation that also runs an exchange.

    For example, from the NASDAQ site: https://www.nasdaq.com/help/sitemap.aspx

    That’s the top level directory. If you care to drill down you will find they provide just about everything including things like “buy gold now”, the funds that buy mortgage backed securities they have have controlling interest in.

    The world is not as simple as you seem to believe. Look deeper before you jump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmmanuelGoldstein View Post
    I'm not going to waste my time anymore. We're beyond discussion. You're going to believe whatever you're going to believe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IrritableBadger View Post
    IDK seems to sum it up for you. Instead of bothering to look for yourself you’re just spouting off about things you simply don’t have a good understanding of. NASDAQ in a big corporation that also runs an exchange.

    For example, from the NASDAQ site: https://www.nasdaq.com/help/sitemap.aspx

    That’s the top level directory. If you care to drill down you will find they provide just about everything including things like “buy gold now”, the funds that buy mortgage backed securities they have have controlling interest in.

    The world is not as simple as you seem to believe. Look deeper before you jump.
    Read this slowly.

    They are an exchange. They do not employ people advising others to buy this or sell that.

    Their business is to have people trade the products they maintain through their exchange. That could mean buying them or selling them - they don't care.

    They do not advise people to buy gold now. I don't even know what you're talking about on their page, but if there's something on their site advising people to do so because they think gold's going higher, it's not written by them. Go ahead and prove me wrong.

    They don't do mortgage-backed securities.

    You guys should make sure you stick to cutting steel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyc123 View Post
    I'm not going to waste my time anymore. We're beyond discussion. You're going to believe whatever you're going to believe.
    I do not believe anything. I live in China and do importing and exporting. I know people at Shell and some other pretty big woofies. (Wholly Owned Foreign Enterprise, China has a bunch of categories for businesses). Some of our customers are large State-Owned Enterprises. I have friends who sell real estate overseas to wealthy Chineses. I am up to my ears in the currency exchange problem. If there really were (reputable) "offshore yuan" then I would be in heaven. So would a whole bunch of other Chinese people.

    But there isn't.

    You beieve there is. Fine. I'll get you 300,000 rmb, you give me dollars. Deal ? Real dollars, not a number in an email from some "fund management service." Pictures of dead presidents on pieces of paper. No counterfeits, either, thank you very much


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