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  1. #1921
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    Levi Strauss's list of factories in March 2019. The vast majority in China, with India, Vietnam etc. tailing. Very few in the USA or Europe...
    Responding because I see you edited here.

    Sure. But why have any in the US or Europe? Why are there 16 in Italy, 5 in Romania, 2 in Poland, and 1 in Spain? Why are they sourcing from 12 suppliers in the US? Why source from 31 more countries outside the EU, US, China, India, or Vietnam? Does that mean they couldn't make more in the US or Europe? Not necessarily. And again, textiles is very labor-intensive. It makes more sense to make it in Bangladesh or China than the US. It also tends to be more protected like agriculture. Many of our highest tariff rates are on textile products. And that isn't something confined to the US, either. This is also just tariffs. It's an incomplete way of talking about it without including non-tariff barriers

    Table showing US tariff rates on different categories, namely textiles
    https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-conte...estImports.png

    Textiles, if I remember correctly, is in fact one of the sectors most highly reshored to the US. And who knows, maybe if it were to be studied, it would be found that this wouldn't be a strategic industry to incentivize. Just giving examples here.

    There's also an awesome documentary on the textile industry, its decline domestically, and rebirth, by a guy who comes from a textile family.
    YouTube

    Cool link number 2 that shows domestic textile supply chain Where Your Clothing | Responsibly Made, Radically Transparent

  2. #1922
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    Things are still made in countries where labor and taxes are high very high in fact if you consider California.
    Right. $6 cups of fair trade tea and $9 cinnamon buns. That's gonna fly worldwide, I'm sure.

    Or there's agriculture, where they import illegal aliens and pay them fifty cents an hour plus a raggedy threadbare blanket on a rotted old shed floor to sleep on.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyc123 View Post
    That would be true if labor were the only factor. But it isn't. Labor many times isn't even the largest cost.
    This is how we know you are either an idiot or 12 years old. OF COURSE labor is not the only factor or even the largest factor. Labor has never been (well, not since the industrial revolution anyhow) the largest portion of the cost. It was generally considered around 15-25% of the cost of most products.

    But it's ALWAYS what management cuts.

    ALWAYS.

    As I said, US management hates their own employees. With a passion. It has nothing to do with economics or even common sense. It's almost a religion, like the KKK's love for black people.

  3. #1923
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    This is how we know you are either an idiot or 12 years old. OF COURSE labor is not the only factor or even the largest factor. Labor has never been (well, not since the industrial revolution anyhow) the largest portion of the cost. It was generally considered around 15-25% of the cost of most products.

    But it's ALWAYS what management cuts.

    ALWAYS.

    As I said, US management hates their own employees. With a passion. It has nothing to do with economics or even common sense. It's almost a religion, like the KKK's love for black people.
    Don't see how "management hates employees" goes out clearly to "even when they could cut costs, they would choose not to do so". Management answers to shareholders for the big companies. Period. Nobody cares about whether they like this or that. The bottom line is quite literally the bottom line. That's why so many things have gone offshore - we made it lower cost and incentivized it.

    Rest assured, your stupidity is pretty clear here. How many things have you been wrong about? Let's recap.

    Said China used foreign exchange reserves for "buisiness" or some nonsense. That's not what foreign exchange reserves are for. Wrong there.

    Said China just fixes the rate to whatever and has no band for the currency to float. You were wrong there.

    Called the NASDAQ a currency exchange. Wrong there.

    Said Chinese companies don't have debt like American companies. Was wrong there again.

    Now you're trying to backtrack after you minimized everything to labor cost.

    Just throw in the towel. You're pathetic. Worse than Gordon and that's quite a feat.

    Also, if you think the only thing made in California is agriculture or six dollar lattes, you're a moron. There's manufacturing throughout the entire union.

    We get it. You don't like facts. You like adding nothing to conversations except "Wall Street decepticons are spreading propaganda" or whatever, or "only what I say is true despite clear evidence to the contrary".

    I've been pretty open here. I'm not adamant in my opinions, because unlike you, I realize they are an opinion. I am adamant on facts. Your fault is that you're adamant on the former and conflate it with the latter. You remind me of an aunt I have that's old and senile. She thinks she knows everything - there is no discussion with her. You could point things out clearly that are indisputable and she'll never admit she's wrong. You and her would probably get along great.

  4. #1924
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyc123 View Post
    Don't see how "management hates employees" goes out clearly to "even when they could cut costs, they would choose not to do so". Management answers to shareholders for the big companies. Period. Nobody cares about whether they like this or that. The bottom line is quite literally the bottom line. That's why so many things have gone offshore - we made it lower cost and incentivized it.

    Rest assured, your stupidity is pretty clear here. How many things have you been wrong about? Let's recap.

    Said China used foreign exchange reserves for "buisiness" or some nonsense. That's not what foreign exchange reserves are for. Wrong there.

    Said China just fixes the rate to whatever and has no band for the currency to float. You were wrong there.

    Called the NASDAQ a currency exchange. Wrong there.

    Said Chinese companies don't have debt like American companies. Was wrong there again.

    Now you're trying to backtrack after you minimized everything to labor cost.

    Just throw in the towel. You're pathetic. Worse than Gordon and that's quite a feat.

    Also, if you think the only thing made in California is agriculture or six dollar lattes, you're a moron. There's manufacturing throughout the entire union.

    We get it. You don't like facts. You like adding nothing to conversations except "Wall Street decepticons are spreading propaganda" or whatever, or "only what I say is true despite clear evidence to the contrary".

    I've been pretty open here. I'm not adamant in my opinions, because unlike you, I realize they are an opinion. I am adamant on facts. Your fault is that you're adamant on the former and conflate it with the latter. You remind me of an aunt I have that's old and senile. She thinks she knows everything - there is no discussion with her. You could point things out clearly that are indisputable and she'll never admit she's wrong. You and her would probably get along great.
    We get it kiddo. You're a f*ckin' genius. Pity you don't know where you live.

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  6. #1925
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Right. $6 cups of fair trade tea and $9 cinnamon buns. That's gonna fly worldwide, I'm sure.

    Or there's agriculture, where they import illegal aliens and pay them fifty cents an hour plus a raggedy threadbare blanket on a rotted old shed floor to sleep on.


    This is how we know you are either an idiot or 12 years old. OF COURSE labor is not the only factor or even the largest factor. Labor has never been (well, not since the industrial revolution anyhow) the largest portion of the cost. It was generally considered around 15-25% of the cost of most products.

    But it's ALWAYS what management cuts.

    ALWAYS.

    As I said, US management hates their own employees. With a passion. It has nothing to do with economics or even common sense. It's almost a religion, like the KKK's love for black people.
    He is correct about California. China offers a special benefit for companies to move business there that may outweigh manufacturing in the US or even a strong country in Europe. All manufacturing has not moved there at all.

    To me it takes a special outlook and that is to also project upon China, that they are a great country who is good to their people and allow freedom and provides better manufacturing. Trade has not helped China to be peaceful nor more democratic and that is clear.

    I know this is a major difference between those who manufacture there and those who do not. The fact that there is a dispute bears out that there are problems for American and other countries who manufacture in China.

    They have basically resigned on what they agreed to with Hong Kong and so to me along with other dishonesty they are not truthful nor trustworthy. Let the customer beware.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    Trade has not helped China to be peaceful nor more democratic and that is clear.
    So what wars is China involved in ? How many air force bases does China have in foreign countries ? How many aircraft carriers does China drive around in the Gulf of Mexico ?

    Why do they need to be more democratic ? Crowds of fools running the government, that is good ? Why doesn't your country become more rational and honest instead ? Maybe quit trying to overthrow other countries' governments for a change ?

    They have basically resigned on what they agreed to with Hong Kong and so to me along with other dishonesty they are not truthful nor trustworthy. Let the customer beware.
    "What they agreed to do" ? The lease was up. When your tenant moves out, do you have to make an agreement with them about what color you repaint ?

    I will bring to your attention that Great Britan leased Hong Kong for 100 years (at gunpoint). They instituted voting after 98 years. They are a very principled country - not !

    It would be good to contemplate a little more before you comment on these things, perhaps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    So what wars is China involved in ? How many air force bases does China have in foreign countries ? How many aircraft carriers does China drive around in the Gulf of Mexico ?

    Why do they need to be more democratic ? Crowds of fools running the government, that is good ? Why doesn't your country become more rational and honest instead ? Maybe quit trying to overthrow other countries' governments for a change ?


    "What they agreed to do" ? The lease was up. When your tenant moves out, do you have to make an agreement with them about what color you repaint ?

    I will bring to your attention that Great Britan leased Hong Kong for 100 years (at gunpoint). They instituted voting after 98 years. They are a very principled country - not !

    It would be good to contemplate a little more before you comment on these things, perhaps.
    That is cowtowing to China. If anyone thinks China is docile then they are mistaken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    That is cowtowing to China.
    Yeah, I bought a new stock trailer last month. Not sure how to get it across the ocean tho.

    If anyone thinks China is docile then they are mistaken.
    That's your criterion ? Countries should be docile ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    I will bring to your attention that Great Britan leased Hong Kong for 100 years (at gunpoint). They instituted voting after 98 years. They are a very principled country - not !

    It would be good to contemplate a little more before you comment on these things, perhaps.
    Why do you have a UK address? We have no principles,do you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Yeah, I bought a new stock trailer last month. Not sure how to get it across the ocean tho.


    That's your criterion ? Countries should be docile ?
    Glad you got that stock trailer it will help your importing and exporting business when Brexit happens.

    China is not docile at all it is just a matter of expression. I do not expect they should be docile really. Millions have died and also been killed by the Communists. Chinese people. No they are not docile as their view is that killing suits their way of governing.

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    I am disappointed in China because opening up trade should have allowed China to change in a much better way. We have always liked China. I like China. Maybe change will come I trust it will one day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    Millions have died and also been killed by the Communists.
    What is this, 1956 ? I better get out my hula-hoop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    What is this, 1956 ? I better get out my hula-hoop.
    You know better EG. From the barrel of a gun so have they ruled. Can’t understand why you do not admit this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    You know better EG. From the barrel of a gun so have they ruled. Can’t understand why you do not admit this.
    Because you have no idea what you are talking about. Reminds me of the missile gap, the bomber gap, the bombshelter gap. The truth was, the Soviet Union had fifty, the US had 1500.

    Stooopid lies. And that's a fact. Eisenhower knew it from the U2 flights but didn't say a word. Stupid warmongering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Because you have no idea what you are talking about. Reminds me of the missile gap, the bomber gap, the bombshelter gap. The truth was, the Soviet Union had fifty, the US had 1500.

    Stooopid lies. And that's a fact. Eisenhower knew it from the U2 flights but didn't say a word. Stupid warmongering.
    Stoopid lies? One only has to know the history of Communism to understand World war and the murder of millions. The US is far behind Communism.

    Who,is stupid and naive now?

    When automation takes China then no problem they just kill or starve the workers. That is Communism.
    Last edited by Trueturning; 10-25-2019 at 07:22 PM.

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    Umm Communism had nothing to do with the world wars...

    You might be being fed a slightly distorted view of the Chinese economy, compared with the US economy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    Umm Communism had nothing to do with the world wars...
    Got a lot to do with starvation as policy by the USSR to the Ukraine and failures due to ideology trumping sense during the Mao period in China, though.

    Not to mention mass murder by the Pol Pot regime.

    Now cue the standard defence 'those places weren't *really* Communist, they were <pick something else> so all of that just doesn't count....'

    PDW

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    Yabbut, what had that to do with the world wars?

    There are a lot of countries and ideologies that have truly appalling and shameful pasts. That does not necessarily have any bearing on their current behaviour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    Umm Communism had nothing to do with the world wars...

    You might be being fed a slightly distorted view of the Chinese economy, compared with the US economy.
    Yes it did. The whole world was effected by Communism. Especially Germany pre WW2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    Yes it did. The whole world was effected by Communism. Especially Germany pre WW2.
    You have my attention. How was Germany affected by communism pre WW2?

    Who teaches world history in the USA as some of you have very strange ideas as to what happened and when? If you are correct then my history teachers must have been very misinformed.


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