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New import duty on China steel

Can anyone verify WHO lost the domestic mills, and WHO then aquired the domestic mills, and note anything odd about the timing of these events, and any relationship to campaign contributions by the new owners of the mills thusly affected?
I'm not pointing any fingers at the current administration either.

There was a whole story about this last year, IIRC.
I can't afford the blood pressure and stress to look it up...
But IIRC there may be a connection between the timing of events, and the former mill owners asking for help, falling on deaf ears, and the help arriving just in time for the new mill owners.

Of course I may be mis-remembering these events.
 
Around the beginning of 2001 the domestic steel mills were in trouble due to the dumping of imports. Of course Bush being the free trader he is would not impose any tariffs. I was working for a large steel equipment capital equipment manufacturer at the time. LTV stiffed my employer for big bucks on a hot metal crane. Buy the time the dust settled all the domestic capital equipment manufactures were foreign owned or just gone. I don't know of any domestically owned firms that make steel making equipment today.

Anyway, LTV, Weirton, Bethlehem (which included Lukens), and Georgetown Steel were all bought by Wilbur Ross for pennies on the dollar. LTV files bankruptcy on Dec. 29 2000. Ross buys LTV on Feb. 27 2001. On March 6 2001 the FREE TRADER Bush signs 8% to 30% tariffs for 3 years. Talk about brass balls and in your face, tariffs only 7 days later!!!!!!!!!!! Ross got big concessions from the unions and dumped all the retirees on the PBGC.

http://www.makingsteel.com/pocket.html

Ross then sold the whole thing to foreign interests, Mittal. Ross formerly worked for the Rothchild's, imagine that.

What the Indians didn't buy the Russians did. These include WCI, Wheeling Pitt and Rouge.

The criminals did the same thing with the welded pipe business. The chicoms were dumping welded pipe, imports went from 100.000 tons in 2003 to 720,000 tons in 2006. To make a long story short the ITC ruled that the US could impose tariffs but Bush said that they would "hurt consumers". Once all the pipe produces were bankrupt the Carlyle Group swooped in and bought something like 11 of them, three in my hometown. Just a few months later Bush decided tariffs were good and put a hefty tariff on chicom pipe. Once profitable the Carlyle Group, AKA the Bush-Bin Laden syndicate, sold the whole shootin match to the Ruskies for billions in profits. Unfortunately the the Wall St. debacle took hold before the check cleared and the ruskies backed out. The Carlyle Group sued and got millions in damages. I could go on in great detail on all the companies that were destroyed or stolen but you get the point.

If you can stomach it, below is a 48 minute documentary on the Carlyle crime syndicate.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3995.htm
 
Can anyone verify WHO lost the domestic mills, and WHO then aquired the domestic mills, and note anything odd about the timing of these events, and any relationship to campaign contributions by the new owners of the mills thusly affected?
I'm not pointing any fingers at the current administration either.

But IIRC there may be a connection between the timing of events, and the former mill owners asking for help, falling on deaf ears, and the help arriving just in time for the new mill owners.

Of course I may be mis-remembering these events.

I don't think you are mis-remembering things at all.

http://books.google.com/books?id=TF...wCTgU#v=onepage&q=pension plan raider&f=false
 
But here is the problem I have with raising the import tarriff on it.

Where does that money go?

Its not like they collect the extra percentage and give it to the steel company to help them with costs and keep people working at high wages. And they dont put it towards workers that lost jobs because they went overseas. The people still working and paying unemployement tax do that, and thats at a state level.
Or maybe they could take the import taxes and help companies meet the clean air requirements, or at least something useful that goes back into US Manufacturing.

Nope, the government takes it, and does what they please with it, and it just raises the price of the import by a bit.

If they did any of the above, I'd say no problem with the import tarriff, and would 100% agree with it.
 
I don't think you are mis-remembering things at all.

So how much more do we endure from the Democraps and Repussicans,
before we take back what's left of our counrty.
I think we have enough evidence, that they are all just hand-puppets,
with the hands of the robber-barrons up their rectums.

good of you to pull the camoflag'e, off the tarrifs.
m1m

Hmmnnn the OP from Denver (kinda).
I think we should legalise ALL drugs, and give them away free,
to all that want them in Denver, CO - Madison, WI & Atlanta, GA
would go a long way toward........ the humanities.
 
I'd really like to see a tariff levied on all chinese imports that equals the difference in the value of the Yuan (pegged to the $USD) and its value if the currency were allowed to float.

The chinese Yuan is artificially kept low, so the chinese have an unfair advantage. There is definetley not a level playing field or "fair trade".
 
One way to make the playing field level is pass a law that ANY imported products must be produced in a facility that meets or exceeds ALL US Environmental, Safety, and Health laws and regulations.
 
Tarrifs on incomming raw materials only is a worse approach than not at all IMO. Works out fine for the Chincs and the steel mills tho.

How many times have you guys fussed that the imports were supplying PARTS for the same or even slightly less than your MATERIAL costs alone?

Boost the cost of raw materials in the US and the Chinc parts are even that much cheaper as the tarrifs DOO NOT attach to finished goods.


Personally I think that we should be on the EVEN trade set-up. All of this trade deficite is all at the cost of foreign owned properties as well as MAJOR infrastructure.

Doo the Yanks even own a one of our ports anymore? Maybe there is that one hold-out that the United Emmerate Towlheads were trying to buy shortly after 911 and all the fuss was raised. Not that anyone mentioned the fact that the Chincs owned boat loads of the rest? The Indiana Tollroad (80/90) is foreign owned. Mines? Mills? We selling it all in the name of cheap goods NOW. The country has lived well beyond it's means under the reign of the ***Baby Boomers***.

This whole "Having it better than your folks did" mentality - AND having it NOW has cost this country all (almost?) all she had gained in the last 100 yrs - to fall in the last 30.

The greenies are all consumed with leaving the planet better than they found it "for the kids", but not many seem to be concerned about the kids' financial future. Either in the legacy that is left to them, nor the spending/life style they are brought up in - and will expect to continue or expand upon.



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More concerned about tomorrow than today
Ox
 
Around the beginning of 2001 the domestic steel mills were in trouble due to the dumping of imports.........

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3995.htm

Excellent post, thank you.



But here is the problem I have with raising the import tarriff on it.

Where does that money go?

When we caught the Chinese dumpimng TV's this is where the money went:

http://www.appliancedesign.com/CDA/Archives/0a0e3a6c89a38010VgnVCM100000f932a8c0____

Five Rivers Electronic Innovations LLC, the Greeneville television manufacturer that has filed for Chapter 11 protection with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court here, hopes by late next year to receive up to $23 million in tariffs imposed in the past year on Chinese-made TVs imported into the United States.
Tom Hopson, Five Rivers’ president and CEO, said in a creditors hearing on Monday that Five Rivers expects to receive between $8 million and $23 million from the U.S. Treasury from customs duties collected on imported Chinese television sets.





Steve
 
Tarrifs on incomming raw materials only is a worse approach than not at all IMO. Works out fine for the Chincs and the steel mills tho.....


Ox, I am no economics expert at all, I'll be the first to admit that. You may have a point but I'm not totally convinced of your argument.

How much does the US really import in the way of raw materials? I don't think its really significant in terms of GDP. And matl costs are generally the smallest percentage of cost for any given US product. I'm pretty sure the net flow of raw matls is heavily skewed to flowing out of this country. Of course petroleum not included.

What a tariff that "corrects" for the devaluation of the Yuan to the dollar does, is make imported assembled goods more expensive. Brings the price of assembled imported chinese goods to an "unsubsidized" cost to US customers. This would remove the unfair advantage "subsidized" chinese goods currently enjoy. It would give US manufacturers more of a fair chance. It would encourage domestic manufacture.

The chinese are very good at gaming the system to their advantage. Can you blame them? Wouldn't it be refreshing if the US govt gamed world trade to our advantage? The chinese artificially depress the value of the Yuan to make their goods cheaper worldwide. All I suggest is a tariff to equalize that disparity they gain by depressing the value of the Yuan. Should the chinese ever let it float (doubtful) then I would say the tariff would then be unnecessary.
 
Mad Machinist, are you starting to see why we "Liberals" have at least some affinity for anyone except the republicans? Not to say they don't have their major flaws, but...

Excellent points by Ox, Morsetaper and Tonytn36.

Jeff
 
One way to make the playing field level is pass a law that ANY imported products must be produced in a facility that meets or exceeds ALL US Environmental, Safety, and Health laws and regulations.

Instead of posing it again, just copied as a whole with one addition.
In order to not anger the extreme free-traders, instead of banning the non-conforming products, we should impose a tariff commensurate with the cost of such regulations. That, coupled with an equalizing tariff to put the artificially valued Chinese currency on par with the rest of the world, I think we could achieve not only fair trade, but would serve as a strong motivation for China ( yes I said China, China China ... a shitloads of time ) to play by the same rules as the rest of the world.
 
On a counter note, the majority of us here on PM buy steel to feed our machine shops, no?

Steel is a world commodity, so when imported steel goes up in price, domestic steel will go up as well.

I don't know about the rest of ya, but in today's economy, it's pert-near impossible to pass on any cost increases to my customers. So, in effect, this new Chicom steel tariff will lower my profitability....

Greg
 
Steel is a world commodity, so when imported steel goes up in price, domestic steel will go up as well.Greg

Well the chinese twist the rules to suit themselves, so what is wrong with us doing the same. You are basically saying the same thing as Ox. OK then, no tariff on chinese raw metal stock. But the tariff stays to Chinese imports that have "value added", ie assembled or fabricated components.

But then on the other hand...whats to say that if the price of raw chinese steel is increased due to tariff, that North American steel production will increase to fill that gap...at a lower price?

I have to disagree and state that a tariff on chinese goods to make up the difference that the Yuan is artificially depressed to, will only level the playing field for all producers. As basically you are supporting the artificial suppersion of the yuan...and the consequent UNfair trade that goes along with it.

While perhaps a tariff to compensate for the artificial devaluation of the Yuan might drive up the cost of raw materials slightly, I think the overall effect will be a benefit to goods NOT produced in China. Realize now...the Chinese are cheating by depresssing the Yuan's value. Most everyone is loosing because of this cheating.
 
Well, sounds like there's the "what should be done" and the "what's really gonna happen" debate. I didn't hear any mention, or actual actions from " the deciders" to do anything about your Yuan vs Dollar problem, did you?

Looks like the idea IS to put tariffs on steel PIPE, and maybe grating( I think that mean's the little steel/chromed barsoap trays at wallmart might cost more ?)
Also sounds like its mostly in regards to pipe used for oil/gas/drilling? not something I make too many parts out of. But there are indeed many companies that were hurt bad by Chinese pipe imports, in Canada too.

Now if it goes to cover all raw metal imports, it could be a bigger problem. Because they're not about to do anything about the finished product being imported, that we can't compete with as it is, even less so if raw material prices go up.

Maybe its time to do like they do in China when the ship full of steel scrap shows up. Sort out all the pieces that you can make something out of without melting it!!! So what if there's a few dents, put a little weld on it, its good, mostly if the sticks are wet, porosity makes it light weight. Pick any mill-cert you like, we make 3 kinds, but the customers here don't seem to care when the price is right. Just tell them to paint them too, and add a little magic marker on the spots that didn't take( they know the process very well).

Try to compete with that.

Christmas was a few days ago and Santa didn't come... :(
 
I cant imagine this will change much of anything.

First- 80% of the steel used in the USA is made in the USA.
The amount imported from China is around 6%. Until last year or so, it was running at about 2% to 3% of our consumption-

that was because for many years there has been a tariff on Chinese steel- a tariff from the Chinese Government on exports. The Chinese steelmakers had to pay up to 25%, depending on the product, to export. That has changed since early 2008, but I think there are still some export tariffs on some Chinese steel. This is for raw steel, not finished products.

So, historically, we have imported almost no steel from China. And we still import very little. We import about as much from Canada as we do from China, and about half as much from Germany, and from Japan- although, in both those cases, its high priced moldmaking and tool steels.
And we import very cheap stuff, like rebar, from whoever will sell it cheapest- I have seen rebar from India, Indonesia, Korea, Mexico, Brazil, and more.

In terms of raw tonnage, though, our steel imports, at only 20% of our total, is a much better number for US workers than our tube sox import numbers, or our tupperware, or our electronics, or computers, or bicycles, or plastic toys, or a million other consumer goods, where we import more like 80% of our consumption...
 
One way to make the playing field level is pass a law that ANY imported products must be produced in a facility that meets or exceeds ALL US Environmental, Safety, and Health laws and regulations.


Any government that brings in that law would not be in power very long...

Western world consumerism is based on the exploitation of the third world and developing countries...

Who is the average consumer going to blame when a TV costs $5000 and they can only afford one per household??

Who will they blame when everything at walmart goes up 500%??

How would such a law be policed??? Can you see China letting US inspectors into the country??? How would you guarantee such inspectors are not being bribed???
 








 
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