New Steel Plants in the USA? - Page 3
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 120
  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Northern Il
    Posts
    1,327
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    699
    Likes (Received)
    1238

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    Nobody was forced to leave their health plan. No different than I have been dealing with for 30 years or so. If I want to have my insurance pay the most that it will I need to use in network doctors. I can still go to any doctor that I want to go to but I might have to pay more.
    That is incorrect. Unless you were fortunate enough to be in one of the exempted plans, political pay back for support, that the UAW and some of the other unions had that were exempted, the rest of us had to have plans that were Obamacare compliant.

    What that meant for me, my max out of pocket costs with deductible went from $2500 to $8500 and my rates increased substantially and I DID NOT get to keep my doctor.

  2. Likes mikebramel liked this post
  3. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    2,669
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    472
    Likes (Received)
    1893

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    This thread is about steel mills in case you missed it.
    No it's not. It's about you whining about Trump. "Boo hoo, he lied to me- his definition of 'new steel mill' is not the same as mine".

    Naturally Miguel has to chime in, so I posted the manufacturing jobs we have "lost" from the tariffs, which btw are on steel, among other things.

    He also presumed wider damage to the economy, so I tossed in the construction jobs to show that it's not just manufacturing that is benefiting under Trump.

    In 2018 we averaged 223,000 new jobs every month, which is about 40,000 more per month than 2016.

    This is what you guys call "getting thrown under the bus I guess."

    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    If all of those things are true trump should have made the speech about them and not lied about steel mills.
    Trump talks about the strong economy and low unemployment in every speech.
    The numbers I posted are straight from the BLS monthly jobs report, published first week of every month for anyone interested to look. Here's a snippet from the most recent one:
    Total nonfarm payroll employment increased by 304,000 in January, compared with an average monthly gain of 223,000 in 2018. In January, employment grew in several industries, including leisure and hospitality, construction, health care, and transportation and warehousing. There were no discernible impacts of the partial federal government shutdown on the estimates of employment, hours, and earnings from the establishment survey.

    Construction employment rose by 52,000 in January. Job gains occurred among specialty trade contractors, with increases in both the nonresidential (+19,000)and residential (+15,000) components. Employment also rose in heavy and civil engineering construction (+10,000) and residential building (+9,000). Construction has added 338,000 jobs over the past 12 months.

    Employment in manufacturing continued to trend up in January (+13,000). Over-the-month job gains occurred in durable goods (+20,000), while employment in nondurable goods changed little (-7,000). Manufacturing employment has increased by 261,000 over the year, with more than four-fifths of the gain in durable goods industries.

    In January, average hourly earnings for all employees on private nonfarm payrolls rose by 3 cents to $27.56, following a 10-cent gain in December. Over the year, average hourly earnings have increased by 85 cents, or 3.2 percent. Average hourly earnings of private-sector production and nonsupervisory employees increased by 3 cents to $23.12 in January. (See tables B-3 and B-8.)

    Employment Situation Summary

  4. Likes Rob F., Shawnrs liked this post
  5. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    2,669
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    472
    Likes (Received)
    1893

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    Nobody was forced to leave their health plan. No different than I have been dealing with for 30 years or so. If I want to have my insurance pay the most that it will I need to use in network doctors. I can still go to any doctor that I want to go to but I might have to pay more.
    I only posted that to see if you would reflexively jump to Obama's defense.

    Politifact gave Obama the "Lie of the Year" for that one. Good grief, millions of people were sent cancellation notices.

  6. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Edison Washington USA
    Posts
    10,374
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    971
    Likes (Received)
    5393

    Default

    A couple of misconceptions-

    People say its impossible to build a new steel mill in the USA.
    Not true.
    Much like Auto plants, most new steel mills in the USA in the last 30 years have been built in the south, and, much like the Nissan, Toyota, BMW, and other new Auto Plants, some have been built by foreign owned companies, relatively quickly. Nucor has consistently been building mills since it began in the sixties- it is now the largest US steel maker.
    When there is sufficient market demand to justify a new mill, mills are built.
    There are lots of states and local governments that will not only welcome a new mill, but will subsidize them with tax breaks.

    Also, steel making is so automated these days that employment is pretty small.
    Steel "coming back" would mean a pretty negligible increase in jobs. An average new mill, that produces between 1 and 2 million tons a year, might employ 400 people.
    Our current production is around 100 million tons a year. 40,000 jobs.
    We consume just a bit over 100 million tons a year- that means, if we made every single pound of steel we use, we might see an additional 20,000 jobs. About what ONE Amazon mini-headquarters employs.

    Nucor has 25,000 employees and makes between 25 and 30 million tons a year.

    We are NOT going to see the USA become a major steel exporter any time soon- the numbers just dont add up. No matter how cheap you are willing to work, you cant beat China or Turkey or the Phillipines for low cost.

    Our best hope is to consistently make the majority of the steel we need domestically.
    (something we have been doing for 100 years, by the way)
    There will always be some steel products it doesnt pencil out to make in the USA- the cheapest, and the most expensive, usually.
    We import crappy generic stuff, and high end tool and die steels- the one, because there is no money in making it, the other because worldwide demand cannot keep more than one mill busy, or because the Germans and the Japanese have proprietary products that we cant make competitively.
    We also import, by far, the most steel from Canada- and its mostly from companies that have mills in both the US and Canada.

    So- in the best possible world, the US may gain a few tens of thousands of steel industry workers, and a few percentage points of domestic share.
    But steel is not a growth industry, and there is a pretty low ceiling for the maximum number of steel jobs that we could see.

    Direct employees in steel manufacturing range somewhere between 100,000 and 150,000.
    Compare that to the Gambling industry in the USA- 750,000 or so.
    Or the Video Game industry- 250,000 or so.
    Legal Marijuana industry- 200,000, but climbing monthly.
    Solar panel industry- 260,000

    the steel industry is pretty secure- its just too expensive to ship the heavy stuff.
    But it is not going to be a huge growth industry for jobs.
    my guess is the vape industry will pass it up pretty soon, along with craft beer making employees, and a dozen other goofy modern jobs.

  7. Likes Spinit, TeachMePlease, mikebramel liked this post
  8. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    south central lower mich
    Posts
    140
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    118
    Likes (Received)
    76

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anjinsan View Post
    I did a google search for (steel plant Durand Mi)and found some info . Don’t know what kind of plant or if it is finalized but it does say new plant .
    Look up "Project Tim" in Durand, MI They have been talking about making road improvements around there. They have an agreement to buy Sis and BIL's place if it actually goes through. She has not heard anything lately. It has been a big secret to what the project actually is to the point where it seems sneaky. We have heard steel but before that it was something to do with renewable energy. Who knows.


    Jeff
    Last edited by jh35; 02-19-2019 at 07:19 AM. Reason: clarification

  9. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    California, Central Coast
    Posts
    3,755
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2195
    Likes (Received)
    1480

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    No it's not. It's about you whining about Trump. "Boo hoo, he lied to me- his definition of 'new steel mill' is not the same as mine".
    This is exactly right. His posts that mention lies are #'s 1,2,8,12,15,16,34&40 He has 4 that did not, #'s 5,9,18&39
    This thread should be closed if this keeps up. Many posts, with links, have shown that steel is being revitalized in USA.

  10. Likes Spinit liked this post
  11. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    10,219
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    2654

    Default

    your confusing a steel plant with adding, rebuilding or modernizing one furnace of many furnaces and setting up a production line or rolling mill.
    .
    even Japanese at one time setup a mini mill to remelt scrap and roll steel in new York state depending on the weekly prices changes in steel. literally how much produced weekly depends on current price whether cheaper to make in the usa or to import it.
    .
    most countries subsidize there steel mills to some extent. that is if they want them in their country. any country that doesnt usually makes less and less til they make nothing.
    .
    currency exchange rate are the most powerful effect on things usually 10x more than anything else. you can make literally $0.02/hour and if cost of living is 1/2 that you can make out very well. a country can pay literally $1./hr wages and send their kids to college, have a 2000 sq foot house or condo with most if not more modern appliances typical of American home.
    .
    until most people learn math and understand currency exchange rates and compound interest and taxes you will have 1000x more difficulty becoming rich.
    .
    i would look at labor participation rate that is the actual % of people working who have the ability to work. usually in the 50 to 60% range (which doesnt include illegal immigrants so actual labor rate is less than 50%). that and those not paying income tax like illegal immigrants. obviously if made legal and forced to pay taxes the amount collected in taxes would jump. if 10 million (or more) not paying taxes suddenly pays taxes that adds up in paying deficit and social security. obviously social security never was you pay into it and get money back. it was from day one current young people pay for current older peoples monthly ss checks
    .
    why its not mentioned tens of millions not paying taxes daily is a mystery to me. and sad thing is when they get older they have no SS cause they didnt pay into the system for the required 10 working years minimum. they locked up Al Capone on income tax evasion. obviously he had income and could not prove he paid income taxes on his income. if somebody lives in country 10 years obviously they are making income somehow to live and if have no proof of paying any income taxes on it, that is illegal.

  12. #48
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Country
    DENMARK
    Posts
    3,446
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4032
    Likes (Received)
    12622

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    currency exchange rate are the most powerful effect on things usually 10x more than anything else. you can make literally $0.02/hour and if cost of living is 1/2 that you can make out very well. a country can pay literally $1./hr wages and send their kids to college, have a 2000 sq foot house or condo with most if not more modern appliances typical of American home.
    What country or countries have you in mind with that?

  13. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Edison Washington USA
    Posts
    10,374
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    971
    Likes (Received)
    5393

    Default

    I believe there are only 7 integrated steel mills left in the USA, which make steel from iron ore.
    Note that even an integrated mill does not use 100% iron ore- All steel, going back at least a hundred years, made in US mills, used a percentage of scrap- in the thirties and forties, it was usually around 10% scrap to 90% ore.

    Those 7 mills make about 30%, plus or minus, of the steel made every year in America. The other 70% of the steel we make comes from the over 100 minimills that make all kinds of steel. Most of the minimills are pretty high tech, and can accurately control the alloy.

    The idea that a "remelt" mill is somehow not real, or not a steel mill, is kind of silly.
    If we have enough scrap laying around to make 70% of the 70-90 million tons a year we roll, would it somehow be more real to just let it rust in the field?
    Also- in most cases, there is no discernable difference between EAF made remelted scrap that is continuous cast into new steel plate, and plate that comes from an integrated mill.

    I wonder how many people can look at a piece of 2" square tube, or a 4" angle iron, and tell me if it is "real" or not, if it came from an EAF mill, or was from a BOF mill?

    Even in the good old days, a rolling mill rolled ingots or billets from a BOF mill.

    Rolling mills are also real steel mills. Even though they only reheat the steel and then roll it to the desired section.

    Anyway, nobody is going to spend the money to build a new integrated mill to make steel from taconite.
    So if that is the only thing you consider a steel mill- give it up.
    Globally, the market is moving to DRI - Direct Reduction Iron- where iron ore is made into iron pellets which are then melted in an Electric Arc Furnace, and rolled into steel. No blast furnace involved.
    Nucor has a DRI mill in Louisiana, which they have been updating, and working out the kinks of the technology.
    They have been having problems with the gas furnaces, and plan on spending $90 million or so this year to rebuild it- leading one to believe that they think its a viable technology.
    News | Argus Media

    the aforementioned Cliffs plant, which will be making iron pellets, would then feed mills like the Nucor DRI mill- meaning a "remelt" mill that is using virgin iron, in the form of pellets. This is potentially cheaper, easier to maintain, and more flexible in terms of production, and that is the direction we will see the US steel industry heading in.
    But it wont result in 200,000 new jobs.

  14. Likes digger doug, Ziggy2, Spinit, mikebramel liked this post
  15. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO USA
    Posts
    10,215
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    58
    Likes (Received)
    5697

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    "If you like your health plan you can keep your health plan?"
    You never could “keep your health plan”.
    Every year I’ve been alive either the HR guys changed or the provider did.

  16. #51
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO USA
    Posts
    10,215
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    58
    Likes (Received)
    5697

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy2 View Post
    That is incorrect. Unless you were fortunate enough to be in one of the exempted plans, political pay back for support, that the UAW and some of the other unions had that were exempted, the rest of us had to have plans that were Obamacare compliant.

    What that meant for me, my max out of pocket costs with deductible went from $2500 to $8500 and my rates increased substantially and I DID NOT get to keep my doctor.
    Union plans had to be compliant too.
    It just happens they were generally way better than any one else.

  17. #52
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Kentucky
    Posts
    220
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    34
    Likes (Received)
    71

    Default

    Up in Carrolton KY you have a Nucor and North American Stainless and someone else. Dont recall who. There is something brand new being built there. and the others have lots of remodeling and updating going on. My day job is for the electrical contractor doing the work in the mill.We have all the work we want for the forseeable future. Figure the new construction site is steal related but not for sure.

  18. #53
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO USA
    Posts
    10,215
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    58
    Likes (Received)
    5697

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    No it's not. It's about you whining about Trump. "Boo hoo, he lied to me- his definition of 'new steel mill' is not the same as mine".

    Naturally Miguel has to chime in, so I posted the manufacturing jobs we have "lost" from the tariffs, which btw are on steel, among other things.

    He also presumed wider damage to the economy, so I tossed in the construction jobs to show that it's not just manufacturing that is benefiting under Trump.

    In 2018 we averaged 223,000 new jobs every month, which is about 40,000 more per month than 2016.

    This is what you guys call "getting thrown under the bus I guess."

    Trump talks about the strong economy and low unemployment in every speech.
    The numbers I posted are straight from the BLS monthly jobs report, published first week of every month for anyone interested to look. Here's a snippet from the most recent one:
    His “definition”?
    All those words have an existing definition.
    I can call red green, that doesn’t make it true.
    Alternative facts aren’t facts, any more than his claims about the inauguration.

    I would expect growth following the longest growth streak ever under Obama.
    Of course, the deficit spending helps.

    Construction is a reinflation of the housing bubble.


    What tarrifs do is tax the consumer.
    My customers absorb the cost so that a steel worker can get a job that is more efficiently done elsewhere.

    When did you turn your conservative card?
    How do you feel about tarrifs in other countries blocking our goods?

  19. Likes mikebramel liked this post
  20. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO USA
    Posts
    10,215
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    58
    Likes (Received)
    5697

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    A couple of misconceptions-

    People say its impossible to build a new steel mill in the USA.
    Not true.
    Much like Auto plants, most new steel mills in the USA in the last 30 years have been built in the south, and, much like the Nissan, Toyota, BMW, and other new Auto Plants, some have been built by foreign owned companies, relatively quickly. Nucor has consistently been building mills since it began in the sixties- it is now the largest US steel maker.
    When there is sufficient market demand to justify a new mill, mills are built.
    There are lots of states and local governments that will not only welcome a new mill, but will subsidize them with tax breaks.

    Also, steel making is so automated these days that employment is pretty small.
    Steel "coming back" would mean a pretty negligible increase in jobs. An average new mill, that produces between 1 and 2 million tons a year, might employ 400 people.
    Our current production is around 100 million tons a year. 40,000 jobs.
    We consume just a bit over 100 million tons a year- that means, if we made every single pound of steel we use, we might see an additional 20,000 jobs. About what ONE Amazon mini-headquarters employs.

    Nucor has 25,000 employees and makes between 25 and 30 million tons a year.

    We are NOT going to see the USA become a major steel exporter any time soon- the numbers just dont add up. No matter how cheap you are willing to work, you cant beat China or Turkey or the Phillipines for low cost.

    Our best hope is to consistently make the majority of the steel we need domestically.
    (something we have been doing for 100 years, by the way)
    There will always be some steel products it doesnt pencil out to make in the USA- the cheapest, and the most expensive, usually.
    We import crappy generic stuff, and high end tool and die steels- the one, because there is no money in making it, the other because worldwide demand cannot keep more than one mill busy, or because the Germans and the Japanese have proprietary products that we cant make competitively.
    We also import, by far, the most steel from Canada- and its mostly from companies that have mills in both the US and Canada.

    So- in the best possible world, the US may gain a few tens of thousands of steel industry workers, and a few percentage points of domestic share.
    But steel is not a growth industry, and there is a pretty low ceiling for the maximum number of steel jobs that we could see.

    Direct employees in steel manufacturing range somewhere between 100,000 and 150,000.
    Compare that to the Gambling industry in the USA- 750,000 or so.
    Or the Video Game industry- 250,000 or so.
    Legal Marijuana industry- 200,000, but climbing monthly.
    Solar panel industry- 260,000

    the steel industry is pretty secure- its just too expensive to ship the heavy stuff.
    But it is not going to be a huge growth industry for jobs.
    my guess is the vape industry will pass it up pretty soon, along with craft beer making employees, and a dozen other goofy modern jobs.
    Steel is saturated.
    More production just drives down prices.
    The only way to change that is to force prices up...tarrifs do that.

  21. #55
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,228
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3308
    Likes (Received)
    1737

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy2 View Post
    That is incorrect. Unless you were fortunate enough to be in one of the exempted plans, political pay back for support, that the UAW and some of the other unions had that were exempted, the rest of us had to have plans that were Obamacare compliant.

    What that meant for me, my max out of pocket costs with deductible went from $2500 to $8500 and my rates increased substantially and I DID NOT get to keep my doctor.
    If you had walked in to your doctors office and told them that you wanted to pay cash I'm pretty sure they would have kept treating you with open arms. Obama never said you could keep your doctor and not have to pay a cent to do it.

    Also, Obamacare aka ACA was a insurance that had premiums that were based on your ability to pay. In other words a wealthy person would pay more than a poor person for the same plan. They were called subsidies. I am on the board of directors of a non profit that supplies insurance coverage to it's employees and had plenty of schooling on it.

  22. #56
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,599
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3052
    Likes (Received)
    479

    Default

    The coming infrastructure investment requires steel. We are wise to understand that outfits like Nucor makes use of resources we have in abundance (steel to reprocess for less cost)

    I believe more steel can be used where it is currently not being used maybe in home construction. Where Hurricanes are a big problem might be a example a architect may know what to do with it.

  23. #57
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO USA
    Posts
    10,215
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    58
    Likes (Received)
    5697

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    The coming infrastructure investment requires steel. We are wise to understand that outfits like Nucor makes use of resources we have in abundance (steel to reprocess for less cost)

    I believe more steel can be used where it is currently not being used maybe in home construction. Where Hurricanes are a big problem might be a example a architect may know what to do with it.
    What “infrastructure investment”?
    Any time it’s proposed taxes are cut and it’s said we can’t afford that kind of socialism.

  24. #58
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    2,669
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    472
    Likes (Received)
    1893

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    ...Construction is a reinflation of the housing bubble.
    Okay, show me your data.

    Here are two charts on housing from the Fed. The first graph is the housing supply, and the second is new starts. I began the series in 2000, so I could capture the housing bubble and the crash.

    Attachment 250167Attachment 250168

    Where is this housing bubble you claim is responsible for the construction jobs gained under Trump?

    What I see in these graphs, and in the median home price data, is that we should be building MORE housing. Prices are going up because supply has not kept pace with demand. We haven't even returned to 2000 levels of new starts.

  25. #59
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Edison Washington USA
    Posts
    10,374
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    971
    Likes (Received)
    5393

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    The coming infrastructure investment requires steel. We are wise to understand that outfits like Nucor makes use of resources we have in abundance (steel to reprocess for less cost)

    I believe more steel can be used where it is currently not being used maybe in home construction. Where Hurricanes are a big problem might be a example a architect may know what to do with it.
    When you say "coming infrastructure investment" I presume you mean the WALL!, right? Because there is no other planned infrastructure programs nationally. Trump's administration has not come up with a plan. Congress has not got one, no votes have been taken, no monies alloted. There have been cuts in some infrastructure projects at the federal level, not increases.

    I work a lot in infrastructure. Its been crappy since 2007, and its looking to stay that way.

    Steel is really really expensive for residential construction. Not much chance anybody is gonna pay for new steel houses in Puerto Rico.

    Certainly more steel COULD be used- if we were willing to borrow or tax the money to pay for it. No plans of that on the horizon, either.
    Us consumption, and production, of steel, has stayed pretty much the same since the late 70s. And more and more, we use other materials, so even building booms and economic booms dont mean huge increases in steel needs.

    And, as I said before- even if we used a lot more steel, it wouldnt mean very many more jobs.
    Construction- yeah, that makes a lot of jobs. But steel mills dont.

  26. #60
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO USA
    Posts
    10,215
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    58
    Likes (Received)
    5697

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Okay, show me your data.

    Here are two charts on housing from the Fed. The first graph is the housing supply, and the second is new starts. I began the series in 2000, so I could capture the housing bubble and the crash.

    Attachment 250167Attachment 250168

    Where is this housing bubble you claim is responsible for the construction jobs gained under Trump?

    What I see in these graphs, and in the median home price data, is that we should be building MORE housing. Prices are going up because supply has not kept pace with demand. We haven't even returned to 2000 levels of new starts.
    Fair enough.
    My sample is local.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •