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Older exp. employee vs. younger more talented

GoodCredit

Plastic
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Location
Milwaukee
Any employers out there have older experienced
employees mixed with more talented younger
employees? I find with the more exp. guy they
are more interested in that younger guy paying
their dues. However what do you do when the
younger guy is smarter especially in the high
tech field that machining has become?
 
Ok, I'll bite.

I'm not an employer, so I can't directly field your question.

Mentor. Make it benefitial(sp?) for both. I started out learning machining in a University shop. I was allowed to work on the lesser machines, ones which were forgiving and also wouldn't put the machinists out if they were down a little. It was a nice non competitive environment. I did my homework (book learning in the library) so I wouldn't ask too dumb of questions (and waste their time). My goal was simply to make good parts to aid in our research, and pick up skills in metalworking. Pay? I didn't care about pay, they would actually let me use machines. I worked my way up a little and gained their trust. Trust that I wouldn't trash and crash machines (the nicer ones that were previously off limits). After a few years, a student employee was hired. He was quick to pick up the basic skills, and asked the right questions, I would gladly teach him what I had learned. I wouldn't say I was a mentor, but we definately both really enjoyed the metalworking, Just as I enjoyed learning from the older retired Navy machinist who ran the shop. Some shops are more reluctant to turn the new (younger) guy loose in the shop. They have a large investment in tools and equipment. There may be a high turn over rate due to the young guy getting a "big head" and thinking that his skills are beyond his capability. I do have much respect for the older guys, but the old Navy guy I worked with didn't want to touch the new CNC lathe and mill, so he let me use it. I learned a lot in that job.

Synergy is the word. If the young guy has the right stuff, maybe he could be "teamed" up with the more experienced guy, but both have to get something positive out of it. They both have to be willing to grow from it. I don't know if it is something that can be forced.

My 2 cents.
 
Synergy is the word. If the young guy has the right stuff, maybe he could be "teamed" up with the more experienced guy, but both have to get something positive out of it. They both have to be willing to grow from it. I don't know if it is something that can be forced.

Yeap. Especially if the older guy is assured, written in blood with penalties, that if he teaches what he knows he won't get sacked.

What is really sad is watching an older guy hold out or mislead a kid because he's afraid he'll teach the kid all he knows and then get bounced. I've been in this position myself and felt betrayed by my supervisor.

I for one don't understand this need to toss older people over the side. Sure, they can cost more money. Sure they sometimes get health problems. In contrast the younger person is more likely to party or have child problems. They're less mature on average and can be real pains.

I think in balance that skill and personality are what matters, and not age.

There is something almost spooky about how older employees can size up a situation, figure out a good solution and make it work. They're often so casual and cool about it in a way that a younger person can never match.

Gene
 
it is amazing how much a older worker can do with minimum equipment, but much skills in hands and head
many newbys with all the latest fabricating equipment cant keep up to the old hands
 
Young people are the reason that God or Mother Nature lets us Old Farts live so long.

Trades and crafts are not the stuff of the academy. They must be passed on hand to hand.

And whenever possiblle, heart to heart.
 
One good thing about getting older... you have a little history to work off of!
I recall the consultant era back when we were huge on manufacturing. The small shops would hire someone to clean up their process and make them more competitive. One company I worked with suffered greatly when the brainiac they brought in freed up the future of any old-timer who didn't have the right education. What that moron let go were truly hard-working people who knew and took a huge amount of pride in their work, were thankful for the job, didn't piss and moan constantly and were reliable!
I also worked with Ford when their thing was hiring engineers fresh out of U. of M.
These kids came in knowing absolutely everything about anything and let the world know that. What they DIDN'T learn at U. of M. was co-existance and instead of alienating anyone over the age of 30, they could ask questions of them and tap them for some of the local knowledge thay had garnered over the years. I saw many of them make their jobs much harder than they were simply because they were know-it-all a-holes who assumed they knew it all.
 
I have often seen places hiring engineering graduates while laying off older engineers, like in their 40's or 50's. They say the new engineers have learned the latest stuff in college, but that isn't so.

It has more to do with salary. The older engineers usually are getting a bigger salary. Engineers can read trade magazines and keep up with new advances, so it is just an excuse to say that they don't know the latest technology. Most of what is taught in a college course is inapplicable anyway.

Experience means a lot in engineering. I think if a young man was paired with an older experienced engineer, he could learn engineering better than he could in college.
 
A friend of mine just got a job with Raytheon he is a 36 yr old electrical Engineer, it seems Raytheon has had a practice of hiring engineers when they needed them then getting rid of them when the project was done. They have done this for years now they have a few "older" engineers and many new ones so now they are hiring middle aged engineers to fill the void between the age groups.
 
You can't beat experince and experince should be passed on.
Try and find someone under thrity who can overhaul a carburetor.
 
"I have often seen places hiring engineering graduates while laying off older engineers, like in their 40's or 50's. They say the new engineers have learned the latest stuff in college, but that isn't so."

Yeah, that's craziness. I'm in engineering school right now, and it's blatantly obvious to me that the stuff I'm learning is a good starting point for actually learning to be an engineer. That's about it. I figure with a masters degree and/or 5-10 years on the job I might actually be an engineer (the on the job portion being the important part). Until then I'm still an engineer in training.

-Justin
 
I am going out on a limb here and speak for myself. I am of the younger generation but I have worked in the real trade world for 3 years and 4 years of voc school. I will never say I know everything because I don't. I have a lot of respect for the older guys because they have been around a lot longer seen and done a lot more. I like to try to learn from you older guys with all do respect. I don't want you to feel like I am going to steal your job. I want you to feel like you passed a little piece of yourself to someone else. This way I can carry that knowledge on when you pass away, so that knowledge doesn't die with you. It actually makes me very sad when older guys think I am going to take there job and don't want to teach me anything. I like to say that I am know were near as good as them so they have good job security. I think that the more older guys I can learn from the farther that knowledge can go when I eventually pass it on to a younger generation. I think that teaching and learning everyday are a big part of this industry. I have learned a lot more on the job from willing teachers than I did in school. Someday I hope to take a younger apprentice under my wing and teach him all that I know. That would make me very happy to know that all that knowledge wont die with me.
 
This is a very intriguing topic, and I have thought about it for the last few days while at work.

In regards to assuming older more experiencd workers are better then younger, more talented workers...I have seen guys with 35 years experience that could not machine their way out of a paper bag, and I honestly do not know how they remained employed...out of a sense of loyalty I guess on the employers part...unreal,lol..


With that out of the way, I will explain my current situation. I work at a custom injection molding co, in the toolroom. We are small, and have 3 guys in the toolroom...My boss, me and a machinist.

My boss is a 36 year vertran moldmaker,Old School guy here...not a ton of CNC or High tech experience, but knows whats out there, and knows how to exploit whats available(Thats why he hired me,lol) toolroom manager and generally a great guy...


Me, I'm alot younger, I'm 35 years old...he has 3 more years experience than I have been on this planet,lol. I have 20 years of High tech machining/toolmaking experience. More than 10 years CNC Exp(I came up the hard way,all manual)


Me and my boss are an unstoppabe team...I'm the high tech get **** done guy..he is the Ultra steer us clear of hidden dangers guy...we work together, bounce ideas off of each other to get things done right, on time, and make alot of $$$ doing it.


Im not threatened by him, and he isnt by me..we have the same type of background, but have diffrent skillz...We both bring what the other cant, and make a very good team.


I have been in the situations where old farts dont want to show you anything, but after some time, I can see why..most of them ARE easily replaced by a driven, highly motivated person..they are right to be scared for their jobs, cause they may be good, they may know alot, but the up and comer can easily surpass him, and he knows it...thats why they dont share and help out.
 
This used to bother me when I was an employee.
(Typically I was the up and comer)Now that I
am the employer it really bothers me now that
I am the one trying to build the team.

When it comes to plain hard work and good work
habits the older guy is excellent. The younger
guy also knows how to keep his nose to the
grindstone and in many instances outproduces
the older guy. When it comes to listening
to new ideas and whats expected the
young guy wins hands down. It has been my
aproach to give every possible piece of info
to both. Obviously the young guy does not know the game of life like the exp. one and their
is some concern on my part he is not doing what
is right but whats right for him.

This small job shop we have, my intent has
not been to create this ultra competitive
environment. In shop meeting after meeting
I have spoken about it is in both their interest
to see one another do well. For whatever reason
this does not take.
 
My experience so far is that the older guys have an edge on working smarter and making fewer mistakes - but are much less willing to change to new methods once they settle into a rut.

I find that it has a lot more to do with the individual than the age. My two best workers in the shop are at opposite ends of the age spectrum. Given the rate of change of performance however . . . the younger guy gets the nod as far as attitude and teachability.

I feel pretty fortunate that at the present time - the vast majority of the folks that work for me are all good workers whether young or old.
 
Young kids just don't understand the need of older people. After all what can a older person teach them right ?? ;)

I'm still in college (for Tool & Die) but the best advice on machining I've come across has been from people in the 50+ catagory.
Nothing can replace years of experiance especially when your learning something that theory and practical stuff are 2 different things on complete opposite ends of the spectrum. :cool:

Dimitri
 
I wouldn't say that theory and practical are on opposite ends of the spectrum - if this is your experience, you likely flunked the theory part or your really screwing up your machine.

When theory and practice are fully aligned, then you have your act together and can figure out ways to exploit the process for all its worth. Often a young guy who has the theory nailed combined with the voice of experience from the older guy can be a great combo . . . but they have to respect what each other bring to the table in order to gain benefit.
 
motion guru,

In college our theory classes and our shop classes don't seem to want to work well together. Sometimes the theory says X and in the shop I can run the machines much faster/harder then that and it will work out better or sometimes it doesn't want to go anywhere near the theoritical value I got and wants to go slower.
As for flunking/screwing up it hasn't happened yet for ether class. :cool:

I wouldn't consider myself in anyway experianced though. My feelings about theory vs. shop may simply be because of the tooling/equipment my school


Dimitri
 
Dimitri:

Your shop classes should prove and support the theory. Sure you can run machines faster and harder, but at what cost. You can run cutters faster than the recomended speed but how long to they last? In Addition, machines can be run harder but at what cost to the machine. You don't want to wear out a machine running a couple of jobs.

This is something intro people need to learn.

In all my electonics classes we had a lecture and a lab for every session. We would calculate what the resistance, current, and voltage should be then measure what the components were doing in the circuit. Then we wrote a lab report and turned it in to the instructor before we could go home. I thought that was excellent training and something all schools should be doing.
"Kishwaukee College"
Malta Illinois

After tool & die making for 25 years I got into electronics in my mid 40's
Jim
 
JimGlass,

Your right, There is wear and tear on the machines but I mainly take it nice and easy though in the shop. :D Only time I run it faster is because I found the lathe can handle cutting faster with this one specific type of HSS we use will cut better at faster then calculated speeds and feeds.


Most of my complaints about the Theory inside the pratical is caused by the theoritical values I get when planning out my projects seems to be too high not too low. The machines/tooling just can't take it from what I've seen. :(

Experiance is something I don't have so I wont be arguing agisnt any of your points.


Dimitri
 
My opinion on the matter, is that talent comes in all types of packages.

Just because a guy is old, doesn't make him talented. He might be able to go through the paces like a pro all day long - but how does he adapt? Likewise, a young guy might be great at adapting, but can he do any one thing particularly well?

I don't see the dilemma. Good employees are those that can be taught - whether they're old or new, young or old. If you can't teach the new/old dog some old/new tricks, he ain't worht a toot.

The advantage to having an older employee, obviously, is the lifetime of knowledge. The advantage to a younger employee, obviously, is the ability to work in the current environment, with a minimum of "re-programming".

Perhaps the better discussion would on management style - who can harness productivity, without blowing smoke up everybody's rear?

Talking about whether younger or older employees are better, is totally counterproductive. Either way, you choose them well in the beginning, manage them effectively, and they are a resource at your disposal. End of story.
 








 
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