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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Interesting thing about those "reward cards" is they started appearing shortly after a researcher wanted the government to make everyone do their grocery shopping at one store for a week or so in order for his study on consumer habits to acquire data. For obvious reasons his suggestion was rejected but then the reward cards started showing up soon after. Any chance many of them are/were partly funded by some "benefactor" in exchange for access to the data? I can't remember the publication or the name of the researcher or university but somehow remember them as local to Boston.

    Among some of the creepier aspects of modern life, the electric utility periodically sends a "comparison" of electric use vs that of neighbors. They couldn't make such a comparison without additional computer time and effort spent beyond that required for billing. I've seen additional signs that individual consumption is being watched and recorded at several levels and by various entities.
    If something is free what they are selling is you.

    And meters have been being watched for decades.
    They used to find marijuana grow operations.
    Our water company will tell you if you have a leak.
    The electric company here rates your usage against a representative sample of your neighbors so you can tell if you are wasteful. Turns out that most people will react as if that were direct peer pressure and try to reduce their consumption.

    The turnip FCC just made it ok for your isp to track your web traffic...and sell it.

  2. #42
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    There are ways to disseminate your purchase habits anonymously, grocery store club card for example are just a numbered account UNLESS you add more information.

    One aspect of using plastic or electronic payments is the absence of counterfeit currency, while not a big problem in general, it reduces loss. On the flip side, it is often easier to get refunds on a card than with cash.

    Steve

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    What happens to a cashless society when the federal government shuts down like it just did in the usa?
    Bill D

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    ^ Government employees presumably get hungry, the rest of the country carries on as normal, government has sweet FA to do with banks and its the banks that hold the funds not the governments of this world, hence it really does not matter.

    If anything presumably with no government to print the money, its the cash societies that would be in the shit once all the in circulation currency wore up?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    What happens to a cashless society when the federal government shuts down like it just did in the usa?
    Bill D
    Nothing, banking is owned by the Rothschild family not the American government.

  6. #46
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    I've never understood the belief that gold is somehow a more secure or permanent form of wealth than paper or electronic currencies. In the event of a catastrophe which results in paper and/or digital currency completely losing its value (i.e. a big armageddon-type event) who the heck is going to want or care about gold or silver? People are going to want 5 things: water, food, shelter, bullets, and booze.

    I'm not sure about you guys, but I figure if I have enough of the first four to survive until I can start producing the fifth in volume, I'll be the richest guy around.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    What happens to a cashless society when the federal government shuts down like it just did in the usa?
    Bill D
    Very little. Unless federal employees are spending money as fast as it comes in they still can use money in personal accounts to pay for things (rent, groceries, etc.).

    This is not our first dance. We've had 18 shutdowns since 1976. The longest lasted 21 days under Clinton. The second longest lasted 18 days under Carter. None lasted longer than 3 days under Reagan. The duration of this one remains to be seen but Trump has promised not to "weaponize" this one like his predecessor did during a 16 day shutdown where parks and monuments were closed to the public.

    Here’s how the stock market has handled past government shutdowns - MarketWatch

    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    If anything presumably with no government to print the money, its the cash societies that would be in the shit once all the in circulation currency wore up?
    If there were no (federal) government to print the money the function would be taken over by state chartered banks as happened in the past during a period (1837–1862: "Free Banking" Era) when there was no central bank.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    What happens to a cashless society when the federal government shuts down like it just did in the usa?
    Bill D
    __ Sigh of relief

    __ Lots of parties

    __ Massive indifference

    __ All of the above.

    Pick any three.

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    If you're ever in need of a grocery store cardholder discount, and anonymity is needed, use this phone number: YourAreaCode-867-5309. It'll be in every system.

    Re: today's shutdown -- if only we got to vote on which segments of government were considered essential...

    Chip
    Last edited by Chip Chester; 01-20-2018 at 03:46 PM. Reason: "sorry, wrong number"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Chester View Post
    Re: today's shutdown -- if only we got to vote on which segments of government were considered essential...
    Be a great deal more interesting as a bar-fight if the gummint employees had to decide amongst themselves...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    Nothing, banking is owned by the Rothschild family not the American government.
    Yep. For anyone that has not read "The Creature from Jekyll Island", you need to do it sooner, not later.

    Kevin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    If you don't want your EZ Pass read "accidently" at other times just store it in one of those aluminized mylar zipper bags that a lot of dried fruit comes in. Pull it out and slide it into a bracket on the windshield when needed or just hold it near the windshield. It is a radio frequency transponder so it just needs to avoid being blocked by metal.
    It's not the "accidental" reading of the card, it's the reading
    when I go thru the toll booth.....

    Might as well get a x-ray whilst driving thru the booth eh ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Chester View Post
    If you're ever in need of a grocery store cardholder discount, and anonymity is needed, use this phone number: YourAreaCode-867-5309. It'll be in every system.
    Or Beechwood 4-5789 ...

    Rikki don't lose that number, you don't want to call nobody else

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    The USA seems to be becoming the "cashless society" to many but not in the way the OP meant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    It's not the "accidental" reading of the card, it's the reading
    when I go thru the toll booth.....

    Might as well get a x-ray whilst driving thru the booth eh ?
    If they have stopped accepting cash and are using plate scanners they are recording every trip you make through the tolls anyway. With highway cameras, plate scanners in toll booths and cruisers, vehicle and cell phone GPS, etc. there is very little anonymous travel on highways these days.

    If someone were to write a book on loss of privacy it should be titled "While you were sleeping".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    If they have stopped accepting cash and are using plate scanners they are recording every trip you make through the tolls anyway. With highway cameras, plate scanners in toll booths and cruisers, vehicle and cell phone GPS, etc. there is very little anonymous travel on highways these days.

    If someone were to write a book on loss of privacy it should be titled "While you were sleeping".
    Yeps everyone is out to get you. I suggest you stop using the internet immediately as "they"'re tracking your every connection and reading what you write.

    Internet Tracking Has Moved Beyond Cookies | FiveThirtyEight

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    there is very little anonymous travel on highways these days.
    .. or on public trans. Or - at least in the UK - even on foot.

    So what?

    GDR & Stasi eventually proved that a society that over-intrudes can collapse under the sheer mass of too many of its worker-bees and too large a share of its treasure wasted moving too much near-as-dammit 100% useless data about. Britain had already shown it borderline useless in Michael Collins' day.

    No Such Agency & fellow-travelers may in the fullness of time repeat those lessons, automated to a fare-thee-well or no.

    Better to worry more about the funds wasted as a certainty, than about any real effectiveness as to doing the dirty by USE of what they collect as a far more remote possibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    If they have stopped accepting cash and are using plate scanners they are recording every trip you make through the tolls anyway. With highway cameras, plate scanners in toll booths and cruisers, vehicle and cell phone GPS, etc. there is very little anonymous travel on highways these days.

    If someone were to write a book on loss of privacy it should be titled "While you were sleeping".
    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Yeps everyone is out to get you. I suggest you stop using the internet immediately as "they"'re tracking your every connection and reading what you write.

    Internet Tracking Has Moved Beyond Cookies | FiveThirtyEight
    Scott is worried about the wrong people.
    The 'government' is not the threat, the threat has always been the big data corps.
    Google, Facebook, now your ISP know more about than government does.
    Zuckerburg said is...privacy is dead.


    Read this, and remember that FB knows all this and more, as do google.
    Using Metadata to find Paul Revere

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    Scott is worried about the wrong people.
    The 'government' is not the threat, the threat has always been the big data corps.
    Google, Facebook, now your ISP know more about than government does.
    Zuckerburg said is...privacy is dead.


    Read this, and remember that FB knows all this and more, as do google.
    Using Metadata to find Paul Revere
    I'm not worried about the wrong people. Most of those government systems were implemented by private contractors. One of them that operated "red light cameras" for several states got in trouble when they started cheating to get more fines and increase their share.

    I'm not on Facebook or any other "social media". I assume every word and number that traverses the internet is captured and stored. As for Google I avoided getting an Android phone until after I researched how to do it without "marrying" Google. Part of that involves never using Google to search, visiting the play store, or activating an account.

    I'm well aware of browser fingerprinting and that's all I'll say about it. I use an offline updater for Windows so the worst stuff gets blocked. I bought my own modem so I control it, not my internet provider. Prefer open source software and trusted commercial. Probably switching OS for keeps eventually (already experimented with different OS, multiple browsers, etc.

    Don't use "the cloud", personal data not accessible to internet, and security settings on high alert. Yes, it's a pain to have to set firewall exceptions and other chores when using high security but it's either that and have SOME protection and privacy or move to a cabin in the woods and live like it's the 1800s.

    If more people were aware and did something about it life would be better for all. I remember when Facebook first became popular incredulously asking people if they were REALLY going to list all their friends, relatives and acquaintances, post personal photos, and converse about their daily lives on a medium that almost certainly was saving the data. Some have smartened up but others have also joined genealogy sites where they enter all the family data and even provide DNA samples. They'll likely also be the first to sign up for the MARC chip implant which will eliminate wallets, IDs, credit cards, passes, and nearly everything else people might carry.

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    Nice how we're conditioned to pay more and more cashless, so when cash will be abolished, with the argument of fighting criminality and corruption, nobody will protest.
    A cashless, fully digitalized and AI'ed society will have "1984" look like a joke scenario..


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