OT: A Cashless Society? - Page 7
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 567
Results 121 to 140 of 140
  1. #121
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Norfolk England
    Posts
    2,247
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2600
    Likes (Received)
    1667

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Live reporting....he's still in line.
    Not my line he isn't. He is in the same line as the other prat.

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Vershire, Vermont
    Posts
    1,985
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1270
    Likes (Received)
    618

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    ....Likewise, a "basement filled with gold, potatoes and booze" is only worthwhile if you can defend it against predators ...In a barter economy things like butane lighters, cheap LED flashlights, and numerous other small items such as wet wipes and lens cleaners in packets, facial tissues in packets, and other inexpensive pocket sized items would be the small change of a non-cash economy.
    If we're positing a barter economy, aren't we starting with the disappearance of the financial/money system and all that it connects?

    Gone would be: large manufacturing, large electrical grids, Wall Street, almost all the petroleum industry, airlines and the interstate system, which would last a while without maintenance, but not that long. But all these things would exist on a small scale.

    And.... gold is pretty useless, and disposable pocket items would disappear quickly from the landscape.

    Food is pretty useful, though. And humans being what they are, booze, cannabis, opium and coca would be important. Petroleum would be a luxury (now that most of the easily extracted deposits are gone) local power generation would flourish (esp hydropower) slavery would make a comeback and law enforcement would be concentrated at the local level.

    Marauding gangs of predators? At a distinct disadvantage against an armed, organized citizenry with a lot to lose and better knowledge of local geography and resources. And the predators have to eat. The locals control the food supply.

    Makes for interesting speculation...

  3. #123
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    4,195
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4486
    Likes (Received)
    4363

    Default

    An interesting development related to the cashless society is China's plan to build a nationwide "social credit" system that would rate every Chinese citizen on a variety of factors.

    China 'social credit': Beijing sets up huge system - BBC News

  4. Likes digger doug liked this post
  5. #124
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    4,195
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4486
    Likes (Received)
    4363

    Default

    Many have predicted that the push for a cashless society would eventually lead to negative interest rates, which means banks actually charge customers for deposits.

    It has already been going on for some time now, apparently to force borrowing and spending.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/quicktake/...interest-rates

    Negative Interest Rate Policy (NIRP) Definition

    Here is a recent example

    UPDATE 1-Denmark's Jyske Bank lowers its negative rates on deposits - Reuters

  6. #125
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Country
    DENMARK
    Posts
    3,363
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4030
    Likes (Received)
    12604

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Many have predicted that the push for a cashless society would eventually lead to negative interest rates, which means banks actually charge customers for deposits.

    It has already been going on for some time now, apparently to force borrowing and spending.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/quicktake/...interest-rates

    Negative Interest Rate Policy (NIRP) Definition

    Here is a recent example

    UPDATE 1-Denmark's Jyske Bank lowers its negative rates on deposits - Reuters
    I don't know what the two things (low and negative interest rates / cashless society) have to do with each other.

    For years, except when travelling abroad to some countries, I've never really needed at most $20 cash on me. The smallest value coin we have is about 8c. A credit card weighs little in my wallet.

    Checks have been obsolete as of January 1st this year.

  7. #126
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    4,195
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4486
    Likes (Received)
    4363

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    I don't know what the two things (low and negative interest rates / cashless society) have to do with each other.

    For years, except when travelling abroad to some countries, I've never really needed at most $20 cash on me. The smallest value coin we have is about 8c. A credit card weighs little in my wallet.

    Checks have been obsolete as of January 1st this year.
    Wait long enough and you'll understand the connection. Central banks hate cash because it thwarts their ability to control an economy through "monetary policy". The examples of negative interest rates we've seen so far were all in reaction to central bank policies.

    Did you actually read the articles?

  8. Likes Newman109 liked this post
  9. #127
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    75
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    80
    Likes (Received)
    52

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    I don't know what the two things (low and negative interest rates / cashless society) have to do with each other.
    you can't store digital zeros and ones in your mattress, so you have to pay for the privilege to one licensed bank.

    bank licenses are required and are extremely hard to get. Having a bank license is like having a liquor license in a dry town, so no, you can't just start your own bank or legally move large piles of cash between countries. Welcome to cash control by your overlords.

    I've run into situation several times, when a large bank branch of a national bank required advanced notice for a few grand in cash as a "large cash withdrawal." The banks no longer keep enough cash at branches and cut down the cost of cash keeping and transferring. In the future, I'd imagine, there would be very few banks with actual vaults.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    For years, except when travelling abroad to some countries, I've never really needed at most $20 cash on me. The smallest value coin we have is about 8c. A credit card weighs little in my wallet.

    Checks have been obsolete as of January 1st this year.
    Like with faceplant, if you are not paying, then you are the product. The list of all your credit card transactions is actually pretty valuable, this coming from a person who worked for a company with a loyalty card business. Those lists are for sale and include every detail.

    So ultimately, it's about control. The control to restrict person's activities (allowing some purchases, denying some) and collect taxes, while figuring out better ways to entangle citizenry in needless debt.

  10. Likes Scottl liked this post
  11. #128
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Modesto, CA USA
    Posts
    6,874
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1145

    Default

    My dentist gives something like a 5% discount for paying in cash or check rather then credit card.
    I have read that banks need to charge about 2% just to cover costs for loans. Many Arab banks are not allowed to charge loan interest to their Muslin customers. The same used to be true for Christian bankers. That is why many European bankers were historically Jewish. They could charge interest to non-jews. Jews could also dissect non-Jewish cadavers. Christan doctors in training could not touch a body so they learned from 1500 year old paintings.
    Bil lD
    Bill D

  12. #129
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Country
    DENMARK
    Posts
    3,363
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4030
    Likes (Received)
    12604

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by _boris_ View Post
    you can't store digital zeros and ones in your mattress, so you have to pay for the privilege to one licensed bank.

    bank licenses are required and are extremely hard to get. Having a bank license is like having a liquor license in a dry town, so no, you can't just start your own bank or legally move large piles of cash between countries. Welcome to cash control by your overlords.

    I've run into situation several times, when a large bank branch of a national bank required advanced notice for a few grand in cash as a "large cash withdrawal." The banks no longer keep enough cash at branches and cut down the cost of cash keeping and transferring. In the future, I'd imagine, there would be very few banks with actual vaults.



    Like with faceplant, if you are not paying, then you are the product. The list of all your credit card transactions is actually pretty valuable, this coming from a person who worked for a company with a loyalty card business. Those lists are for sale and include every detail.

    So ultimately, it's about control. The control to restrict person's activities (allowing some purchases, denying some) and collect taxes, while figuring out better ways to entangle citizenry in needless debt.
    About the only thing I can write about this is that I much prefer how things are (for my way of life) than years ago.

    I'm as good as debt free and do not consider myself "entangled in needless debt.".

    Some choose to gamble, some don't.

  13. #130
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    75
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    80
    Likes (Received)
    52

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    About the only thing I can write about this is that I much prefer how things are (for my way of life) than years ago.

    I'm as good as debt free and do not consider myself "entangled in needless debt.".

    Some choose to gamble, some don't.

    it's not quiet that simple, even 15 years ago, loyalty processors could easily make people jump through hoops, buy thing they don't need and document how add dollars translated into actual lift in sales and do some very complicated computations to establish psych profiles and what would sell better and to whom. Card purchase data is just one piece of the puzzle, that's why there are secondary and "gray" markets for other data to make more well rounded models.

    Anyways, illusion of free will and free choice is the goal. Stay frosty, my friends.

  14. #131
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Country
    DENMARK
    Posts
    3,363
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4030
    Likes (Received)
    12604

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by _boris_ View Post
    it's not quiet that simple, even 15 years ago, loyalty processors could easily make people jump through hoops, buy thing they don't need and document how add dollars translated into actual lift in sales and do some very complicated computations to establish psych profiles and what would sell better and to whom. Card purchase data is just one piece of the puzzle, that's why there are secondary and "gray" markets for other data to make more well rounded models.

    Anyways, illusion of free will and free choice is the goal. Stay frosty, my friends.
    It apparently is that simple. Have you ever carefully listened to a Trump speech?

  15. #132
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    4,195
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4486
    Likes (Received)
    4363

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    It apparently is that simple. Have you ever carefully listened to a Trump speech?
    leopard-funny-bored-meme-picture.jpg


    ............................

  16. #133
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Country
    SPAIN
    Posts
    3,409
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1903
    Likes (Received)
    1242

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Many have predicted that the push for a cashless society would eventually lead to negative interest rates, which means banks actually charge customers for deposits.

    It has already been going on for some time now, apparently to force borrowing and spending.

    There is already too much money "floating about in Europe" which is driving devaluation and negative rates.
    The ECB (European Central Bank) restarted quantitive easing (against a lot of flack from various countries) and it's been a flop for the first month.
    Only 28 banks took up any offer of "free money", and the ECB estimated 20-100 billion Euro being loaned, and actual take was only 3.4 bill.
    Interest rates currently at -5%, which shows they don't want you to have cash. They want you to spend it and borrow more, and spend that. Have now, rather than save and spend.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...mulus-steps-up

  17. #134
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Country
    DENMARK
    Posts
    3,363
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4030
    Likes (Received)
    12604

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    leopard-funny-bored-meme-picture.jpg
    OK so you have listened.

  18. #135
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    2,534
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    451
    Likes (Received)
    1808

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    ...Interest rates currently at -5%, which shows they don't want you to have cash. They want you to spend it and borrow more, and spend that. Have now, rather than save and spend.
    Meanwhile, retired people get to sit and watch their life savings slowly consumed by the central bank.

    They're trying to force the banks to make loans they wouldn't otherwise make, by charging them a fee to hold onto cash.

  19. Likes Scottl liked this post
  20. #136
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Country
    SPAIN
    Posts
    3,409
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1903
    Likes (Received)
    1242

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Meanwhile, retired people get to sit and watch their life savings slowly consumed by the central bank.

    They're trying to force the banks to make loans they wouldn't otherwise make, by charging them a fee to hold onto cash.
    Pensions consumed too at every "crash"!
    Don't forget also that although it is advertised (in Europe) that your savings are insured/covered for upto 100kEuro, this is only IF a bank goes bankrupt.
    And this will not happen because the laws have been passed to allow "bail-ins/haircuts" (as they did in Cyprus) which allows the banks to remove as much from everyones accounts as they see fit, to allow the bank to remain solvent...

  21. #137
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    2,157
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    990

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Meanwhile, retired people get to sit and watch their life savings slowly consumed by the central bank.
    Slowly ? I figure about 50% every ten years.

  22. Likes barbter liked this post
  23. #138
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Modesto, CA USA
    Posts
    6,874
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1145

    Default

    Arco saves a lot by not accepting credit cards. that is one reason they are often the cheapest gas in town. They do not lose the 2% + fee and no fraud loss either.
    These cashless societies drop everyone's income by 2-3% but it is just hidden since all prices reflect the fees. This is just like fuel costs with taxes hidden in the pump price. Are there still extra fees on tires? California tried to outlaw cash discounts but lost in a lawsuit so it is not enforceable anymore.
    Bil lD

  24. #139
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    2,157
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    990

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    California tried to outlaw cash discounts but lost in a lawsuit so it is not enforceable anymore.
    Did the state of Califoria try to outlaw cash disounts or did the credit card companies in California try to push through a law outlawing cash discounts ?

    In other states it has been door number two ...

  25. #140
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Modesto, CA USA
    Posts
    6,874
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1145

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Did the state of Califoria try to outlaw cash disounts or did the credit card companies in California try to push through a law outlawing cash discounts ?

    In other states it has been door number two ...
    The companies pushed through a no cash discount law then a court case said it was unconstitutional law. It is still on the books but many companies know it can not be enforced.
    Theoretically it applies only to five companies in the lawsuit. Since it is a federal case I suppose it applies in other states as well.
    Bill D

    Card surcharge ban laws take another blow - CreditCards.com


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •