OT - opening up as best we can. AKA - is it still just the seasonal flu? #3 - Page 14
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  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    The over the top germophobic OCD paranoia are far from being "common-sense public health rules". What they are is an imposition of someone else's superstitions on the rest of the population.

    We are NOT all in this together. That is a lie, because the reality is that the rest of us are hostages to YOUR irrational fears. The myth of surface contamination as a major infection risk has already been debunked* and the widely held belief of "asymptomatic spreaders"** has almost no real scientific data to back it up.

    * COVID: Do you still need to wipe down groceries, takeout food boxes?

    ** WHO Says Asymptomatic Spread Of Coronavirus 'Very Rare,' But Experts Raise Questions
    Latest info from cdc on mask effectiveness and asymptomatic spreaders
    Scientific Brief: Community Use of Cloth Masks to Control the Spread of SARS-CoV-2 | CDC

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    I hope you guys will lobby hard to prevent mandatory safety glasses and earplugs. Seems like a invasion of my rights just like wearing a seatbelt. Next thing you know the government will make you have insurance to drive a car!
    Bil lD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    I hope you guys will lobby hard to prevent mandatory safety glasses and earplugs. Seems like a invasion of my rights just like wearing a seatbelt. Next thing you know the government will make you have insurance to drive a car!
    Bil lD
    Except that they've already gone WAAAAAY beyond that by declaring some workers and businesses "non-essential" and ordering them shut down in the interest of "safety".

    Like all lefties you confuse government imposition of "good" things as right and proper. Any employer is perfectly within his rights to demand that employees wear safety glasses and earplugs. Vehicle insurers can also demand that you wear seat belts or pay an extra premium. Even as a vehicle owner you have a right to demand that people riding in your car "buckle up" or ride with someone else. When government does it the implication is that they have ownership rights not only over our property but even over our bodies.

    I've long been a believer in seat belts, motorcycle helmets, and eye and ear protection but I am not a fan of government imposing rules mandating them. As we have recently seen, it eventually leads to things like ordering businesses and even houses of worship to close and worse yet, telling people how many guests they may have for thanksgiving.

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    As we have recently seen, it eventually leads to things like ordering businesses and even houses of worship to close and worse yet, telling people how many guests they may have for thanksgiving.
    Just wait until the masses figure out that big tech has installed contact tracing software on your phone without your consent.

    It's already happened for us. Google maps can trace you withing a couple of feet, and I'm sure they've already created an algorithm to trace your every movement.

    The fact that they hide it is the proof they KNOW it's a deal breaker.

    This whole exercise is a godsend to leftist thinking oligarchs.

    "We have to protect you,.......... you can't do it for yourself".

    Congratulations lefties......you won.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderjet View Post

    This whole exercise is a godsend to leftist thinking oligarchs.

    "We have to protect you,.......... because you are too stupid do it for yourself".
    Fixed that for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Straightedge View Post
    Given that anybody who ever asks about building a crane on PM is told not to even think about it by 95% of the responders, it's not that surprising that the same sample includes obsessive compulsive hypochondriacs afraid of unsprayed grocery carts. It must be so frustrating to see people (especially YOUNG people!) exercising their guaranteed rights as per the 1st and 5th Amendments. Anyone afraid of leprachauns, aggressive unicorns, or coronavirus is free to quarantine as long as they like. People who don't see it that way are living NOW and getting on with life. Little tyrant mfs like you and PDW have no say in that because you can't violate the rights of American nationals except at your own risk.

    Tyrant MPs like me!!!!!!! It is dumbasses like YOU that are making it difficult for the people that are trying to stop the virus. it is the stupid thinking and selfishness of people like you that is spreading the virus. because of people like you I have to work more to pick up the slack because people like you are missing work. why are they missing work? They are either infected with Covid or been around someone that was infected. my are I live is now a hot spot for the virus, we are at record levels of infected people and out lovely democratic fat ass governor is going to shut our state down again.

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    Governments making rules concerning how to limit the spread of this virus is not a left thing or a right thing, it's a stupidity thing.

    People should know by now what they have to do to keep themselves and others safe but the rules need to be in place for the dumbasses that just don't get it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61 View Post
    Fixed that for you.
    Thanks for that.

    I hope someday I'll be able to determine my own thoughts well enough so that you don't be offended.

    Meanwhile........just ignore the bill of rights. It has no meaning anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    The over the top germophobic OCD paranoia are far from being "common-sense public health rules". What they are is an imposition of someone else's superstitions on the rest of the population. . . .
    These public health rules are being established by County and State Health officials, medical doctors selected for their expertise.

    Which leads to the question - are these thousands of medical doctors superstitious OCD paranoia germaphobes bent on taking away our freedoms? Or would you (hey, let's all meet in groups of a hundred or more, inside, without masks or distancing) be the dangerous-to-public-health outlier?

    When all is said and done with this, there may have been a few sensible paths through it. Fair enough to explore them.

    The hard lockdowns for a few weeks, followed by opening up the economy and vigorously monitoring new cases (China, New Zealand, etc.) is likely one. Those countries have had both far fewer deaths and less economic damage. One reason China is still eating our lunch in many manufacturing areas.

    It also looks like "flattening the curve" -- even as ineptly as some countries like the US have done it -- will prove better than considering it a total hoax or going full bore for herd immunity. Far as we know, buying a bit of time has cut mortality rates to 1/10th the initial horror show (Italy, NY Metro area, etc.). Seems we're on the cusp of even more effective treatments and vaccines.

    If you want to look at someone bet on savaging our freedoms, might spend less time worrying about medical professionals doing their jobs and citizens taking modest precautions to cut the viral load -- and look instead to the liar-in-chief still clinging to both his blame game and bullying -- and delusional hopes for four more years to keep dividing the country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Straightedge View Post
    jews are so predictably obsessed with shit that it's a stereotype.
    See here: Butt of the Joke - Tablet Magazine
    and here: A Jewish Take on Toilet Training – Kveller
    and here: Israeli troops reveal Gaza abuses | Amnesty International

    Of course, this is just what you find from the first 10 seconds of searching. Those first two links are by jews, admitting to the reality, no less! You get the point. But why would we be surprised from an obsession like this when the tribe you derive from starts life for its boys with a barbarian ritual, cutting the penis and then having a rabbi orally suck the wound, often infecting him with herpes! (For the non-jews who don't know what I'm referring to, see this: Brit milah You probably never heard about it before...Disgusting rabbis orally sucking the blood off a baby's freshly-circumcised penis.)

    Seeing as you come from a tribe of baby cock-suckers that want to shit in my drinking water, it's kinda hard to take your thoughts on health and wellness seriously. SORRY
    Quoted for posterity so you can't edit out your Jew-baiting and abuse.

    I also reported it. I've never reported anyone before but I'm making an exception for you.

    And before you ask, no I'm not. Nor am I any other religion either.

    PDW

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    .....
    Which leads to the question - are these thousands of medical doctors superstitious OCD paranoia germaphobes bent on taking away our freedoms? ....
    Not so much but maybe a bit of bias.
    Machine shop analogy is orders have gone up 500%, delivery scheduled is shortened.
    Now the pressure is on, lots of hours, better efficiency needed. One can not make more machines and machinist appear tomorrow.
    Do more with less, work unsafe at times as needed is the customer demand. In this case the customer the public.
    So the people making the parts get frustrated and overworked.

    We are burning out our healthcare workers at all levels. Nine months under the gun and getting worse.
    I think some bias understandable and justified.
    Bob

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    These public health rules are being established by County and State Health officials, medical doctors selected for their expertise.

    Which leads to the question - are these thousands of medical doctors superstitious OCD paranoia germaphobes bent on taking away our freedoms? Or would you (hey, let's all meet in groups of a hundred or more, inside, without masks or distancing) be the dangerous-to-public-health outlier?
    None of whom have been ELECTED.
    They have no standing to pass laws, or enact penalties.

    Only the legislator can do this, with the agreement of the governor.

    If it is that critical to public safety, then recall the legislators back to the seat of government and ENACT THE LAWS.

    This could be done in a matter of hours in most states.

    Doctors and specialists are important, but they are not elected to pass laws.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderjet View Post
    Thanks for that.

    I hope someday I'll be able to determine my own thoughts well enough so that you don't be offended.

    Meanwhile........just ignore the bill of rights. It has no meaning anymore.
    Do you have a pic of the jackbooted thugs taking away your rights? Look at the countries that got a hold on this situation, they collectively suffered a little bit, then got to go back to "normal". The longer you resist, the longer we ALL suffer. This is an extra ordinary situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderjet View Post
    ....
    If it is that critical to public safety, then recall the legislators back to the seat of government and ENACT THE LAWS.
    .
    What to do when the legislators are more concerned about re-election or party loyalty than public safety?
    Unfortunately that is where we are. Part of this has become about keeping your job or your party in power and not about the public as a whole.
    How did we end up there?
    Talk to some "off the record" and sometimes very different than that the face to the public.
    The game or bosses upstream may be getting in the way of doing what is best for all.

    Partial shutdowns coming in every day.
    Yet only partial not hard. Why, ....votes will be needed next time around and in many cases one to five percent are I have a job or someone else gets it.
    This is the life a legislator or career in this field.

    If those in control of the laws or safety give a poop about all why is this so divided on party lines?
    Seems that there should be a fair amount of cross line thinking but that is not showing.
    Bob

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    I remember when California stated talking about a mandatory motorcycle helmet law. Many riders side it was their life their choice. But many riders were young without big nest eggs or good health insurance. These young riders would slam their skull into a curb and be brain damaged with no insurance to pay for there rehabilitation, if that was even possible. Guess who got to pay for their care? taxpayers who did not even ride motorcycles. But they would have felt bad if they just euthanized the riders with no insurance.

    I think the death of Sonny Bono and the Kennedy boy has accelerated the use helmets while skiing. Kids now have grown up with bike helmets and do not think they look funny.

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    No more helmet law here. FREEDOM... but I will wear one and think when I see someone without sort of crazy.
    But I only think that as I would have been dead ten times over without one. (I crash a lot)
    Now if never had done that it would seem right.
    I do not have the bug, anyone I knew was just fine in a week. All protections seem a waste.
    If you never split a helmet in half on a tree it seems a hamper on your riding. This will not happen to me and I do not need this intrusion on my rights.

    I know this not the place for such but if you ride, wear a skid lid. It is not if, it is when and how bad.
    I do not like a mask either but I also do not like safety glasses or steel toe shoes. Earplugs?
    Sometimes we need to give a bit on the live free side even when it rubs us the wrong way.
    Bob

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    Freedom _to_ have a gun.
    Freedom _of_ religion.
    Freedom _from_ ... bankruptcy because you don't have health insurance? Nah, should have it. Can't afford it? Loser. Can afford it but preexisting conditions, so, can't afford it? Loser. Guns, Jesus, no losers. Perfect country. Let God sort it out.

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  23. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61 View Post
    Do you have a pic of the jackbooted thugs taking away your rights? Look at the countries that got a hold on this situation, they collectively suffered a little bit, then got to go back to "normal". The longer you resist, the longer we ALL suffer. This is an extra ordinary situation.
    I'm not so sure that the countries that did have an early successful lockdown are actually in as a good of a position as it appears they are.

    Why I say this is that for the lockdown to be truly successful in the long run, the Covid virus must die out and not have a source reservoir.

    I look at countries such as New Zealand that bit the bullet and so far have had minimal Covid infections however they have also had the problem that as soon as they lifted travel restrictions just slightly, they would get a positive in the population and have to revert to the previous lockdown strategy. This is a good short term strategy but is it a long term solution?

    Geographically being an island helps immensely in that it is much easier to limit traffic into your country if the only way in is through plane or boat. Unfortunately not all of us have that luxury.

    I also think that medically, in many ways we are grasping at straws. This a novel virus so early in the game we only had previous experience to go by. This has likely attributed to the conflicting flip flopping recommendations that have not helped the situation nor installed confidence in the information given.

    There is also a likely variance in human response to the Covid virus depending on geographic and ethnic makeup. I would use the exposure of indigenous peoples to outsiders. I would take the example of the American Indians being exposed to some of the childhood diseases that the European arrivers had such as Chicken Pox. For the American Indian it was deadly vs a minor illness of the Europeans.

    I suspect that there is a similar relationship with some of the Asian populations and their success with dealing with Covid. It is likely that they have been exposed to close cousins that give the population a low level viral resistance to Covid. Resistance and immunity are not synonymous. Resistance only decreases your likelihood of infection from a slight exposure but it.

    I also think that there is much that is not understood in the general population about mask wearing. I am not against wearing masks and do wear when where appropriate however I do not think the infection evidence supports their effectiveness. We have the situation of the proliferation of masks that are far below the N95 level of performance such as any of the easier to breath through cloth masks. There is also a large variance in the fit of the N95 masks depending on suppliers and price.

    We also have the issues of design of our current modern society buildings and infrastructure. It seem from empirical evidence that sunshine and fresh air is a great inhibitor in the Covid infection. This is in direct opposition to current engineering design of mass transit systems that are underground, dirty, and with stale air.

    Outside the virus actually dying out and without a source reservoir, Covid will be a continual problem unless we have herd immunity via either a vaccine or just plain infection.

    Lockdowns will not be a permanent solution in this scenario. It only buys time. Same with the masks, it only will slow the rate of infection not stop it.

    Looking to our politicians for the answer is not a good solution. This group is dependent on their voters liking them well enough to re-elect them. They do not have your best interests at heart. Even if they truly are trying to do the right thing, it might not be in your best interest to explicitly follow them. At best their responsibility is to the group, not you.

    We need to all come to grips of the reality of the situation and develop our own plan to get us to the other side. Their are many paths through the Covid minefield, we as individuals need to decide on our own best path for us and accept the risks of living.

    Either immunity through vaccine or immunity through infection are going to be the only two long term solutions unless the virus dies out.

    I think we need to stop thinking that a one size all approach is sustainable. Depending upon the risk group you lie in should dictate your personal actions and behavior.

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  25. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    No more helmet law here. FREEDOM... but I will wear one and think when I see someone without sort of crazy.
    But I only think that as I would have been dead ten times over without one. (I crash a lot)
    I don't have a problem with people riding without a helmet. They want to kill themselves, go for it.

    However I'd probably insist on an informed consent clause on their licenses saying that no surgery or other medical treatment would be done in the event of a head injury and they have consented by their lack of helmet to being a whole body (ie any & all organs) organ donor.

    Alternatively they have a specific insurance policy covering them for treatment of head injuries and if the cost of treatment exceeds the policy - off to the donor list.

    PDW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderjet View Post
    None of whom have been ELECTED.
    They have no standing to pass laws, or enact penalties. . . ..
    A County's health officer is typically chosen by an elected Board of Supervisors. And those health officers aren't making the laws, but advising on them.

    Similarly at the State level.

    Firemen, police, airline captains, even school crossing guards aren't elected either. But we somehow manage to have laws on the books (just as in the public health case) giving them authority to carry out their jobs.


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