Thread: OT - opening up as best we can. AKA - is it still just the seasonal flu? #3

Originally Posted by Straightedge

While the Dalmatiangirl has been holed up, having no human contact for most of the year, advocating for hazmat-grade PPE, and taking a major hit to her income, I've been out and about every day, maskless, traveling extensively, doing business, interacting with the family and all sorts of people, having coffee, meals, and drinks, talking, shaking hands, hugging, etc. and guess what? I haven't had a sniffle. Amazing what eating meat, getting enough sleep, and not living in fear can do for a guy.

I travelled from Tx to Nv right after first lockdown, I have travelled out of Nv no less than 4 times since then, and I continue to do what needs to be done on a daily basis, not just cowering in fear. I sell industrial parts, mainly to small business, but big names show up from time to time too, are sales slow because I fear the rona, or because business is not buying?

P.S. I'm not a vegetarian either.

Hope your strategy works out for you.

Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein

Do you remember the goode olde dayes, when the economist class used to tell us sending manufacturing jobs overseas was a good thing, because for every job lost four or five good ones would be created at home ? And we were now going to be a service economy, where everyone would be rich beyond their wildest dreams wearing white shirts with ties and driving bimmers home to the sprightly housewife and three smiling kids ?

did you say service economy?



dee
;-D

Originally Posted by Scottl

All of those factors do make a difference in attitude. I'm not at economic risk either but I know younger people who are. I'm technically retired and I decided not to work odd shifts at what I love (R&D) to avoid other people (ie "distancing") as it's just too bizarre a way to live and I don't need the income. I've had plenty of contact with other people as I prefer the real world to the "virtual" one and in some cases such as taking an elderly relative to in-person doctor visits it was absolutely necessary. I talk to my neighbors, mostly outdoors, and some wear masks while others don't. I don't panic if someone's mask slips down while I'm talking to them as I have a pretty robust immune system despite being part of the over-65 "at risk" group.

I don't fear death although I wish to avoid it for a while as I still have a lot I want to do. Same with most of the people I know in my age group and all of them would gladly risk their life if it meant saving their children and grandchildren from poverty and emotional deprivation.

I am fortunate to be in a place that I don't have to work, I do it because I enjoy it, and the prospect of having nothing to do is kind of scary. I have a healthy retirement account, but 40 years of "don't touch that", even as I approach the timeframe it was meant for, still has me saying "don't touch it".

I do realize that younger people do not have that cushion, and it does sadden me, what I do not have is the power to change the situation. A few months back a local kid most likely took his life, since we were not able to find his body it is still unclear. He told his parents his intentions, drove his car till out of gas, and presumably walked into the mountains, search teams spent 3 weeks and found nothing. I helped on initial search, and have been back in the area over a dozen times in past few months cutting wood, but also watching for signs of him.

Cases and hospitalizations are rising in Nv, the gov has asked for better compliance with mask wearing to hopefully reduce the spread, if the numbers do not improve there will be another lockdown. The libertarian in me does not approve of lockdowns, the authoritarian in me says if the people are too stupid to save themselves, something has to be done.

Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61

I travelled from Tx to Nv right after first lockdown, I have travelled out of Nv no less than 4 times since then, and I continue to do what needs to be done on a daily basis, not just cowering in fear. I sell industrial parts, mainly to small business, but big names show up from time to time too, are sales slow because I fear the rona, or because business is not buying?

P.S. I'm not a vegetarian either.

Hope your strategy works out for you.

Believe me, I hope you stay healthy also, but since covid is a hoax, I don't believe you face risks of illness greater than what life always presents. I struggle to understand why people in your shoes think this is a real threat when, after many months, there is still nothing observably unusual going on outside of people acting in ridiculous ways because their TVs told them to wear masks, avoid people, and maintain distance when you can't avoid people altogether. In my view, the "new normal" is a demand from the oligarchs that we give up the greatest rewards of being human, i.e., meeting new people and spending quality time with family and friends.

Traveling around the country this year has made it plainly obvious there is no pandemic. It's also proven the screen-addicted masses are the kowtowing sycophants of the oligarchs. They absolutely prioritize what their screens tell them over what they experience first hand. Ignorant of their rights, the masses demand conformity to the behavioral templates expounded by the media and ridicule those who understand that the Bill of Rights is the supreme law of this land, that we are not the subjects of elected officials or the oligarchs. The 1st Amendment is plain:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

If there was ever anything worth saving, it's the Bill of Rights. No document in human history has ever provided a better rule book for organizing a society where the people are supreme, where NO ONE is above the law. The collective ignorance of our rights, the loss of the common-law courts, etc. has led to the demise of this great nation. I remain hopeful that continued government and oligarch overreach will awaken enough people who demand a restoration of LAW. We don't need majorities. Throughout history, it only takes a motivated minority, just a few percent, to drive a revolution.

Originally Posted by Straightedge

Believe me, I hope you stay healthy also, but since covid is a hoax, I don't believe you face risks of illness greater than what life always presents. I struggle to understand why people in your shoes think this is a real threat when, after many months, there is still nothing observably unusual going on outside of people acting in ridiculous ways because their TV told them to wear masks, avoid people, and maintain distance when you can't avoid people altogether. In my view, the "new normal" is a demand from the oligarchs that we give up the greatest rewards of being human, i.e., meeting new people and spending quality time with family and friends.

Traveling around the country this year has made it plainly obvious there is no pandemic. It's also proven the screen-addicted masses are the kowtowing sycophants of the oligarchs. They absolutely prioritize what their screens tell them over what they experience first hand. Ignorant of their rights, the masses demand conformity to the behavioral templates expounded by the media and ridicule those who understand that the Bill of Rights is the supreme law of this land, that we are not the subjects of elected officials or the oligarchs. The 1st Amendment is plain:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

If there was ever anything worth saving, it's the Bill of Rights. No document in human history has ever provided a better rule book for organizing a society where the people are supreme, where NO ONE is above the law. The collective ignorance of our rights, the loss of the common-law courts, etc. has led to the demise of this great nation. I remain hopeful that continued government and oligarch overreach will awaken enough people who demand a restoration of LAW. We don't need majorities. Throughout history, it only takes a motivated minority, just a few percent, to drive a revolution.

Don't know if it's an outright hoax or not but if the virus is real many of the characteristics attributed to it are more science fiction than science. I saw a jackass doctor on TV just the other day who said "Treat every surface as if it were radioactive". What a clown! Even touching an Ebola contaminated surface is not a death sentence unless you have ab open wound or fail to wash your hands.

Locally we've seen a few moon units wearing masks AND face shields. The shields get wider at the top and remind of nothing so much as those scratch guards they put on dogs. It would be funny if not for the fact that the media has convinced so many to behave like neurotic germaphobes. I see people go through contortions to push elevator buttons without touching and kicking doors open (nice for the person who touches the door after your filthy shoes!) to avoid touching with their hands. The officer in Bridge on the River Kwai said it best:

"madness!"

Even if it WERE a deadly pandemic the intrusions on personal liberty would be unjustified. Rand Paul (a physician) said it best. In a free society people get to choose the level of risk they are comfortable with. In a totalitarian society the government decides what people can and cannot do.

Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61

The authoritarian in me says if the people are too stupid to save themselves, something has to be done.

Cummins is a goings.
Dominic Cummings: PM'''s top adviser leaves No 10 to '''clear the air''' - BBC News

Originally Posted by Straightedge

Believe me, I hope you stay healthy also, but since covid is a hoax, I don't believe you face risks of illness greater than what life always presents. I struggle to understand why people in your shoes think this is a real threat when, after many months, there is still nothing observably unusual going on outside of people acting in ridiculous ways because their TVs told them to wear masks, avoid people, and maintain distance when you can't avoid people altogether. In my view, the "new normal" is a demand from the oligarchs that we give up the greatest rewards of being human, i.e., meeting new people and spending quality time with family and friends.

Traveling around the country this year has made it plainly obvious there is no pandemic. It's also proven the screen-addicted masses are the kowtowing sycophants of the oligarchs. They absolutely prioritize what their screens tell them over what they experience first hand. Ignorant of their rights, the masses demand conformity to the behavioral templates expounded by the media and ridicule those who understand that the Bill of Rights is the supreme law of this land, that we are not the subjects of elected officials or the oligarchs. The 1st Amendment is plain:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

If there was ever anything worth saving, it's the Bill of Rights. No document in human history has ever provided a better rule book for organizing a society where the people are supreme, where NO ONE is above the law. The collective ignorance of our rights, the loss of the common-law courts, etc. has led to the demise of this great nation. I remain hopeful that continued government and oligarch overreach will awaken enough people who demand a restoration of LAW. We don't need majorities. Throughout history, it only takes a motivated minority, just a few percent, to drive a revolution.

I do not rely on tv for info, as I have said before several members of my family are in the medical profession. Either you are insulting their intelligence, or you are implying they are complicit in this hoax, sorry, I'm not chasing you down that rabbit hole.

Originally Posted by Scottl

Not a backhanded compliment at all. These friends are proud of their heritage but they don't go around accusing everyone else of being Nazis or using the Holocaust as a club to silence those with different views.

I never mentioned (or even implied) the Holocaust.

You don't have to be a Nazi to be a fascist.

Originally Posted by Demon73

Cummins is a goings.
Dominic Cummings: PM'''s top adviser leaves No 10 to '''clear the air''' - BBC News

Unfortunately much too late, .but I suppose we can be thankful for small mercies.

Originally Posted by Straightedge

. . . covid is a hoax . . .

Traveling around the country this year has made it plainly obvious there is no pandemic. It's also proven the screen-addicted masses are the kowtowing sycophants of the oligarchs. They absolutely prioritize what their screens tell them over what they experience first hand. . . .

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. . . I remain hopeful that continued government and oligarch overreach will awaken enough people who demand a restoration of LAW. . . ..

Originally Posted by Scottl

. . .
Even if it WERE a deadly pandemic the intrusions on personal liberty would be unjustified. Rand Paul (a physician) said it best. In a free society people get to choose the level of risk they are comfortable with. In a totalitarian society the government decides what people can and cannot do.

By your (Straightedge) standard of personal observation most every cause of death is a hoax. I can only recall personally witnessing the aftermath of death by downing and death by hanging. Everything else hearsay. I have had people disappear in life, supposedly from other causes, but not having seen it with my very eyes -- they all must be hoaxes?

Try it yourself - how many deaths have you personally witnessed from various causes? For just about anyone other than physicians, that personal experience rarely covers even the top few causes of death in the US. Doesn't make them hoaxes.

While you're at it, tell us precisely which oligarchs managed to mastermind the creation of this virus, convinced researchers to sequence its DNA, convinced a million to die with horrific symptoms, prompted the autopsies and death certificates, got a hundred nations to respond, and so on. The Kochs? Soros? Adelson? Hedge funds? Maybe CVS pharma, a big Trump donor? Oil oligarchs? Putin and friends? Xi? The top ten execs at Goldman Sachs? Maybe Mitch McConnell's oligarch wife heading up Transportation? All of them secretly working together -- maybe an underground bunker below Hilary's pizza parlor or Trump's Mar-a-Lago? Gotta be someone, right?

Closest things we actually have to conspiracies are people like Trump exploiting it for partisan reasons, the media -- increasingly alt media -- looking for eyeballs, and the usual banksters trying to make a buck off it. Those bucks being borrowed or printed at a dizzying rate.

As for each of us determining what level of risk we wish to assume -- great idea IF that risk is only to oneself. Only the most self-absorbed imagine they have a right to drive drunk or live the life of Typhoid Mary or a Covid Christie. Seems we do have a pretty self-absorbed populace -- maybe what we get after decades of Survivor, The Apprentice, and "reality" culture?

Finally, with respect to our Bill of Rights -- the greatest threat to our Republic in recent years wanted to muzzle the press. He gassed those peacefully assembling to petition their government. For him, freedom of religion only extended to his Ten-Commandment-denying base; not those of other religions.

Most hopeful sign in weeks is that the American public, by a margin of millions, have fired him. Most telling insight to the man's character is that he continues to lie, blame, and act out in an attempt to keep his delusional and bullying self-image intact.

Originally Posted by Limy Sami

I never mentioned (or even implied) the Holocaust.

You don't have to be a Nazi to be a fascist.

No, but you do have to be an atheist control freak, which are the same characteristics that draw people toward communism.

Mussolini, the inventor of modern fascism, started out as a communist but developed fascism after realizing it was easier to sell to people than communism. Hitler is reported to also at least have flirted with communism before turning to fascism.

What these systems have in common is the desire to regiment society and control most aspects of life. In contrast, the principles that led to the founding of America were based on individual liberty and limitations on centralized power.

In the Soviet Union bureaucrats in Moscow decide when people should plant crops and when they should harvest them even though regions within the vast Soviet empire varied widely in climate and seasons. That is why they had trouble feeding themselves and had to rely on grain sales from the USA.

I do not watch the news much. Maybe once a week at the most.
Have family and friends who work in healthcare so my view biased from that side and their input.
Also my wife is a Facebook nut so no lack of feedback there on theories. Last night she brought up the vaccine with nano-robots and tracking chips.

I do not see a hoax or understand how some see it that way.

I am not a Doctor but if all the Doctors and nurses that I know are afraid I take a clue from that.
Are they brainwashed by the media or other?
Some in medical go to not that big of a deal and make for "net" news but they seem to be statistical outliers.
Is the medical system "rigged" and a fake news source?
Bob

Wow. Georgia.

This makes 306 EVs.

Historic. Landslide. Blowout.

https://twitter.com/kellyannepolls/s...36493469204481

Originally Posted by CarbideBob

I do not watch the news much. Maybe once a week at the most.
Have family and friends who work in healthcare so my view biased from that side and their input.
Also my wife is a Facebook nut so no lack of feedback there on theories. Last night she brought up the vaccine with nano-robots and tracking chips.

I do not see a hoax or understand how some see it that way.

I am not a Doctor but if all the Doctors and nurses that I know are afraid I take a clue from that.
Are they brainwashed by the media or other?
Some in medical go to not that big of a deal and make for "net" news but they seem to be statistical outliers.
Is the medical system "rigged" and a fake news source?
Bob

Therein lies the paradox, and to this point AFAIK no one has yet come up with a provable answer rather than theories. No MDs in my immediate family but I know several and when encountering others I try to (subtly) broach the same question.

"How have your patients fared with Covid?"

The almost universal answer so far is "Fortunately most of our patients had only mild symptoms".

Yet we are barraged with tales of emergency rooms full of dying Covid patients and a range of symptoms that could overlap with those of hundreds of other diseases and conditions. I don't think that hordes of doctors are lying but the power of suggestion can even affect the highly educated and if they expect to see hordes of seriously sick Covid patients they are likely to assume that anyone with serious symptoms that are "on the list" is infected with Covid. Several people here and elsewhere have pointed out the unusually low numbers of deaths and hospitalizations attributed to other causes and can't help but wonder if mis-attribution is occurring on a large scale.

Medicine is far from an exact science, and if it were there would be far fewer deaths and injuries due to incorrect treatment. Although the very popular TV show House is fiction it accurately portrays how often clinicians must take their best guess and then administer treatment experimentally, changing course if the treatment seems ineffective or worse.

Therin lies the paradox, I don't know anyone who's died of aids, and while I know several doctors they don't either. So that's a hoax. My dad has had numerous skin cancer treatments and is fine at 79, one grandfather died of spinal cancer at 80 but that's one case so that can't be a thing.

I don't know any drug dealers so, hoax. No warlords, hoax. I actually don't know any criminals so, hoax. They say there are millions, but, c'mon, I'd know some so hoax, right? They _want_ you to believe in drug crime and war, so they can control you.

I _do_ know an ex green beret from viet nam, who walked through firefights unscathed, so the terror of war- must be an agenda. Right? Any smart person who lives life fully without fear must see this. The sheep are wasting the few years we are given worrying over so much needless crap. Wake up!

The did not happen to me and I did none of the take care things.
No one I know got hit by the bullet or at least not hard.
That makes one think it not so bad. It is not in my world or pod and if so only minor.

Then shutdowns or rules that do affect me. Those are real and mess with one's life.
I can 100% see the view of this as overblown news even if I think this point 100% wrong.

If the bug takes out even 10% and the new rules affect 100% there is gonna be some pushback.
Bob

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-W/vsak-wrfu

scroll to latest data

someone watches far too much tv

Originally Posted by iwananew10K

someone watches far too much tv

I think they're more into wacko websites. Even tv is too rational for them.