OT - opening up as best we can. AKA - is it still just the seasonal flu? - Page 376
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 376 of 469 FirstFirst ... 276326366374375376377378386426 ... LastLast
Results 7,501 to 7,520 of 9367
  1. #7501
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    6,125
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5521
    Likes (Received)
    5771

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by janvanruth View Post
    national descent into socialism
    i am from the netherlands, what in the usa would amount to a socialist country, as would our neighbours belgium and germany.
    i truly wonder what you are afraid would happen if the usa had our system of healthcare, unemployment benefits, payed holidays and payed sick leave.
    all of those things are very socialist and are the norm all over western europe.
    Because what they want to do in the USA is nowhere near "European style socialism", which would probably better be described as "compassionate capitalism". What you actually have is a free market economy combined with a strong social welfare system.

    What our "progressives" seek is closer to what is practiced in Cuba, Nicaragua, and Venezuela where government owns much of the productive sector and heavily controls the rest. They practice deceit by pointing out the Nordic countries as examples when what they really wish is a Marxist state.

    As I repeatedly attempted to point out to G****n, your countries can AFFORD generous social welfare programs because your people earn enough. What has been happening in the USA for decades is a decline in good paying jobs for the most vulnerable people as our parasitic class constantly imports large numbers who compete for the remaining jobs while much of our manufacturing was outsourced to places like Mexico, China, and India. Even higher paid software programmers must now compete with workers either from or in China and India. Most call centers are now in foreign low wage nations. Now, to "cure" the problems caused by this pillaging such as the inability to pay for medical care the same people who caused the problem tell us socialism is the only solution.

    The USA is not Europe and that is why for many of us socialism has a bad name. We know full well that instead of becoming Denmark or even Sweden we would become more like Venezuela.

  2. #7502
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Country
    NETHERLANDS
    Posts
    1,706
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    888
    Likes (Received)
    698

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Because what they want to do in the USA is nowhere near "European style socialism", which would probably better be described as "compassionate capitalism". What you actually have is a free market economy combined with a strong social welfare system.

    What our "progressives" seek is closer to what is practiced in Cuba, Nicaragua, and Venezuela where government owns much of the productive sector and heavily controls the rest. They practice deceit by pointing out the Nordic countries as examples when what they really wish is a Marxist state.

    could you point me to the places where bernie sanders actually said so?

    As I repeatedly attempted to point out to G****n, your countries can AFFORD generous social welfare programs because your people earn enough. What has been happening in the USA for decades is a decline in good paying jobs for the most vulnerable people as our parasitic class constantly imports large numbers who compete for the remaining jobs while much of our manufacturing was outsourced to places like Mexico, China, and India.

    who is this parasitic class that imports large number of people?

    you do know that in europe there were large numbers of people imported also?


    who is responsible for the decline of those good paying jobs?
    and who did the outsourcing? progressives ?

    Even higher paid software programmers must now compete with workers either from or in China and India. Most call centers are now in foreign low wage nations. Now, to "cure" the problems caused by this pillaging such as the inability to pay for medical care the same people who caused the problem tell us socialism is the only solution.

    so the progressives indeed did the outsourcing and are responsible for the decline of good paying jobs.
    but how in the world did they do that?
    they are not the captains of industry that decide what will be happening.


    The USA is not Europe and that is why for many of us socialism has a bad name. We know full well that instead of becoming Denmark or even Sweden we would become more like Venezuela.
    blaming the progressives for everything wrong while those same progressives have not been in a position to do any of those things because they never had any real political influence is just scape goating.

  3. #7503
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    6,125
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5521
    Likes (Received)
    5771

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by janvanruth View Post
    blaming the progressives for everything wrong while those same progressives have not been in a position to do any of those things because they never had any real political influence is just scape goating.

    Where did you come up with that rubbish?

    The progressives had 8 years in the White House under Obama and they took control of the House in 2018. Even when not actually "in power" they had numerous people in important positions in education, the courts, and most importantly the media. They started to take over those position in the late 1960s when people like the SDS and other 60s radicals changed their tactics and substituted stealthy encroachment for open rebellion. Only recently have they come out of the shadows and once again begun open rebellion, secure in the belief that their allies in positions of influence will protect them.

    It never ceases to amaze me how many people who don't live here think they know all about us because of what they read or see in the media. Pure hubris!

  4. Likes adh2000, ChipSplitter, SND, S. Mant. liked this post
  5. #7504
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    5,171
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3049
    Likes (Received)
    2586

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Because what they want to do in the USA is nowhere near "European style socialism", which would probably better be described as "compassionate capitalism". What you actually have is a free market economy combined with a strong social welfare system.

    What our "progressives" seek is closer to what is practiced in Cuba, Nicaragua, and Venezuela where government owns much of the productive sector and heavily controls the rest. They practice deceit by pointing out the Nordic countries as examples when what they really wish is a Marxist state.

    As I repeatedly attempted to point out to G****n, your countries can AFFORD generous social welfare programs because your people earn enough. What has been happening in the USA for decades is a decline in good paying jobs for the most vulnerable people as our parasitic class constantly imports large numbers who compete for the remaining jobs while much of our manufacturing was outsourced to places like Mexico, China, and India. Even higher paid software programmers must now compete with workers either from or in China and India. Most call centers are now in foreign low wage nations. Now, to "cure" the problems caused by this pillaging such as the inability to pay for medical care the same people who caused the problem tell us socialism is the only solution.

    The USA is not Europe and that is why for many of us socialism has a bad name. We know full well that instead of becoming Denmark or even Sweden we would become more like Venezuela.
    Do you think that Europe doesn't have large numbers of migrants from less well-off nations? Do you think that (certain countries in) Europe haven't had manufacturing outsourced to cheaper parts of the world? Do you think that if you phone the utility or cell phone company's hell desk over here, you won't get answered by someone in India?

    None of that is a cause or an excuse for not having a decent healthcare system or social welfare programs. The cause is that you, as a nation, allow corporations to be treated as if they were private persons, but with pockets deep enough to buy the government.

    You, as a nation, allow the drug companies, hospitals, doctors and insurance companies to do anything they want in order to claw money off people that have no collective control, bargaiining power or knowledge of the validity of what they are being charged for.

    You, as a nation, have been so indoctrinated into the belief that the winner writes the rules and that failure is a deliberate choice that you are unwilling to countenance reining in the power of the hyper rich or supporting the unfortunate.

    Yes, the US isn't like Europe. You've got the capitalism bit sorted. The compassionate bit could be achieved in a decade if you put your backs into it.



    Edit to add:- If it's any consolation/opportunity for schadenfreude, We in the UK have got Borris and his thugs, who are doing their best to behave like president Trump, but without having the power to make other nations even pay lip service to them


  6. #7505
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Vt USA
    Posts
    8,810
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1422
    Likes (Received)
    3110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    Do you think that Europe doesn't have large numbers of migrants from less well-off nations? Do you think that (certain countries in) Europe haven't had manufacturing outsourced to cheaper parts of the world? Do you think that if you phone the utility or cell phone company's hell desk over here, you won't get answered by someone in India?

    None of that is a cause or an excuse for not having a decent healthcare system or social welfare programs. The cause is that you, as a nation, allow corporations to be treated as if they were private persons, but with pockets deep enough to buy the government.

    You, as a nation, allow the drug companies, hospitals, doctors and insurance companies to do anything they want in order to claw money off people that have no collective control, bargaiining power or knowledge of the validity of what they are being charged for.

    You, as a nation, have been so indoctrinated into the belief that the winner writes the rules and that failure is a deliberate choice that you are unwilling to countenance reining in the power of the hyper rich or supporting the unfortunate.

    Yes, the US isn't like Europe. You've got the capitalism bit sorted. The compassionate bit could be achieved in a decade if you put your backs into it.



    Edit to add:- If it's any consolation/opportunity for schadenfreude, We in the UK have got Borris and his thugs, who are doing their best to behave like president Trump, but without having the power to make other nations even pay lip service to them

    From this side of the pond, as portrayed by our MSM et al. It APPEARS, that there is a surge in nationalism and independence going through many areas of Europe. Some exhibits suggest "Americanism" as a model.

    Is there something missing in the Socializes Civilized Europe today.

  7. #7506
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Country
    SPAIN
    Posts
    4,353
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    301
    Likes (Received)
    175

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    From this side of the pond, as portrayed by our MSM et al. It APPEARS, that there is a surge in nationalism and independence going through many areas of Europe. Some exhibits suggest "Americanism" as a model.

    Is there something missing in the Socializes Civilized Europe today.
    Oh there was. Brexit, Silvani in Italy, yellow vests in France, Greece marching a lot of weekends, big uprising in Germany against Merkel etc
    But we all had to get back in our boxes...

  8. #7507
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, UK
    Posts
    20,452
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    15834
    Likes (Received)
    16256

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post

    It never ceases to amaze me how many people who don't live here think they know all about us because of what they read or see in the media. Pure hubris!
    Hello Mr Pot said Mr Kettle - aka that's a two way street.

  9. Likes Greg White liked this post
  10. #7508
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    4,038
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    940
    Likes (Received)
    2831

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    Oh there was. Bexir, Silvani in Italy, yellow vests in France, Greece marching a lot of weekends, big uprising in Germany against Merkel etc
    But we all had to get back in our boxes...
    What's happening in the US is the demcrats are running the 'color revolution' playbook against Trump.

    The media is playing their role. Most people are completely oblivious to the machinations in D.C., they just parrot the talking points they are fed.

  11. #7509
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Country
    NETHERLANDS
    Posts
    1,706
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    888
    Likes (Received)
    698

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Where did you come up with that rubbish?

    The progressives had 8 years in the White House under Obama and they took control of the House in 2018. Even when not actually "in power" they had numerous people in important positions in education, the courts, and most importantly the media. They started to take over those position in the late 1960s when people like the SDS and other 60s radicals changed their tactics and substituted stealthy encroachment for open rebellion. Only recently have they come out of the shadows and once again begun open rebellion, secure in the belief that their allies in positions of influence will protect them.

    It never ceases to amaze me how many people who don't live here think they know all about us because of what they read or see in the media. Pure hubris!
    there has not been a progressive in the white house since johnson.
    republican and democrat are all the same dish, served on different plates.
    calling obama a progressive is a joke.
    it used to amaze me how people that actually live in the usa can be so blind as to the situation they live in.
    not anymore.
    none so blind than those that will not see.

  12. Likes dcsipo, Greg White liked this post
  13. #7510
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    2,171
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2272
    Likes (Received)
    454

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    Do you think that Europe doesn't have large numbers of migrants from less well-off nations? Do you think that (certain countries in) Europe haven't had manufacturing outsourced to cheaper parts of the world? Do you think that if you phone the utility or cell phone company's hell desk over here, you won't get answered by someone in India?

    None of that is a cause or an excuse for not having a decent healthcare system or social welfare programs. The cause is that you, as a nation, allow corporations to be treated as if they were private persons, but with pockets deep enough to buy the government.

    You, as a nation, allow the drug companies, hospitals, doctors and insurance companies to do anything they want in order to claw money off people that have no collective control, bargaiining power or knowledge of the validity of what they are being charged for.

    You, as a nation, have been so indoctrinated into the belief that the winner writes the rules and that failure is a deliberate choice that you are unwilling to countenance reining in the power of the hyper rich or supporting the unfortunate.

    Yes, the US isn't like Europe. You've got the capitalism bit sorted. The compassionate bit could be achieved in a decade if you put your backs into it.



    Edit to add:- If it's any consolation/opportunity for schadenfreude, We in the UK have got Borris and his thugs, who are doing their best to behave like president Trump, but without having the power to make other nations even pay lip service to them

    Well I see you can relate. It seems even though there are clear differences between the U.S. and the EU still there are many similarities. For example the things you mentioned. It looks like any exodus of manufacturing there has not caused a freeze in real income like we have seen here in the U.S. adjusted for inflation. Money was taken and invested overseas so that there would be more profits. All the while reducing the standard of living here of the middle class there was of course less money to spend leading to families under duress trying to survive.

    The incidence of increased addiction , family breakdown, suicide, homelessness, and crime has been noticeable although violent crime and crime in general is down yet considering how high the rates of crimes were the height was quite high at points a couple of decades back.

    Healthcare is always a hot topic here. Insurance companies are right in the mix. Right now doctors are complaining to their state governments saying that the health insurance companies are stiffing them on telemedicine visits not wanting to pay and certainly not a timely payment when it is agreed too. As it is these insurance companies are raking in money.

    It is said that when the insurance covers something then is when that procedure hits the big time because insurance pays for those things. Heart surgery is big. Even though it does not drastically improve that problem as much as diet, exercise, and stress reduction. Those things can actually reverse heart disease. So most all the surgeries really are not really solving the underlying problem. I am sure there are two sides to this as there always is here. They fight too.

    I notice that doctors here are worried their jobs can be replaced by cell phone apps!
    That tickles the heck out of me it is like automation. The advances in different areas might be much better and I hope they will be.

    Seems that with the threat of armed conflict and standoffs that they always seem to be around and we are tired of all the wars.

    I would hope that the U.S. and the EU could work together making trade between us more fair to us both and take down barriers to prosperity. Too we should negotiate with China to make sure that they comply with our intellectual property. We are the same in that area and have not changed yet China skips the R&D by taking all that they can and they tell us “You knew what we were when you came to do business so we have the right no one owns anything” . I wonder if that would include the SOUTH China Sea?

    Oh well seeems we and you guys are in good company for the most part.

  14. Likes tim9lives liked this post
  15. #7511
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wyoming
    Posts
    3,525
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    8769
    Likes (Received)
    5731

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by janvanruth View Post
    national descent into socialism
    i am from the netherlands, what in the usa would amount to a socialist country, as would our neighbours belgium and germany.
    i truly wonder what you are afraid would happen if the usa had our system of healthcare, unemployment benefits, payed holidays and payed sick leave.
    all of those things are very socialist and are the norm all over western europe.
    Jan, my EU distributor is in The Netherlands, and although he complains a good bit about being an employer in the EU compared to how easy we have it, neither of us considers The Netherlands a Socialist country. Prioritizing social welfare, yes, but Socialist, no.

    In our hemisphere, Socialism is represented by the shining example of Venezuela, wherein society has been rendered more equitable by virtue of being reduced to the lowest common denominator.

    "If capitalism is the unequal distribution of wealth, socialism is the equal distribution of poverty." Come de revolution, ain't gonna be no more limousines.
    Last edited by Oldwrench; 09-18-2020 at 08:39 AM.

  16. Likes CalG, digger doug, tim9lives, SND liked this post
  17. #7512
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,881
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2129
    Likes (Received)
    2133

    Default

    Amazing how many of you eat the FOX shit. The US is the wealthiest country in the world, yet all of you are complaining about wage stagnation, Did any of you ever ask the question where that excess wealth go? Why the EU had not experienced the same wage stagnation? The answer is simple because they have a social welfare system collective bargaining and a democratic socialist government system that protects the workers. Not a fuckin greedy bastard government controlled by oligarch buying influence in both parties. If you would vote your economic interest instead of the propaganda you consume, you would be better off. Adopting the models in Germany or Denmark would not make you Cuba or Venezuela. Only idiots would believe that.


    dee
    ;-D

  18. #7513
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    2,171
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2272
    Likes (Received)
    454

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    Amazing how many of you eat the FOX shit. The US is the wealthiest country in the world, yet all of you are complaining about wage stagnation, Did any of you ever ask the question where that excess wealth go? Why the EU had not experienced the same wage stagnation? The answer is simple because they have a social welfare system collective bargaining and a democratic socialist government system that protects the workers. Not a fuckin greedy bastard government controlled by oligarch buying influence in both parties. If you would vote your economic interest instead of the propaganda you consume, you would be better off. Adopting the models in Germany or Denmark would not make you Cuba or Venezuela. Only idiots would believe that.


    dee
    ;-D
    Surely you jest.

  19. #7514
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Vt USA
    Posts
    8,810
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1422
    Likes (Received)
    3110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by janvanruth View Post
    blaming the progressives for everything wrong while those same progressives have not been in a position to do any of those things because they never had any real political influence is just scape goating.

    I don't really suggest anyone watch the beginning or end of this video. (Who does this stuff?)

    But the middle part speaks historically of "progressive movements."

    People Who Accuse Trump of Being a “Fascist” Prove They Have No Idea What the Word Means - YouTube

    Now I wonder if the present "socialized" Europe" isn't just some sort of continuation or spring back. They have had a lot of experience at the extreme end.

    By the way, Did the EU reps consider themselves "essential" and continue collecting their salary as unelected planners for the future of common folk?

  20. Likes SND, Oldwrench liked this post
  21. #7515
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    moscow,ohio
    Posts
    6,394
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    653
    Likes (Received)
    2132

    Default

    might want try some alka seltzer or somthin...maybe even some pepto depending.

  22. #7516
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pinckney Mi.
    Posts
    3,025
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    6880
    Likes (Received)
    891

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    Surely you jest.
    Me be sayin you r da JESTER spunit

  23. #7517
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Country
    SPAIN
    Posts
    4,353
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    301
    Likes (Received)
    175

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    Amazing how many of you eat the FOX shit. The US is the wealthiest country in the world, yet all of you are complaining about wage stagnation, Did any of you ever ask the question where that excess wealth go? Why the EU had not experienced the same wage stagnation? The answer is simple because they have a social welfare system collective bargaining and a democratic socialist government system that protects the workers.
    The US has the money. It's just a handful of people that have it...
    EU not having wage stagnation???
    Spain property prices here are less than they were in 2003...
    UK is FULL of wages stagnation. It has been for a lot of years.
    Just for clarity - the gov doesn't give a flying fuk about the people.



    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    It looks like any exodus of manufacturing there has not caused a freeze in real income like we have seen here in the U.S. adjusted for inflation. Money was taken and invested overseas so that there would be more profits. All the while reducing the standard of living here of the middle class there was of course less money to spend leading to families under duress trying to survive.
    I can't speak for the manufacturing centre of the EU (Germany) but for the UK it was vogue for all OEMs to jump on the China bandwagon and outsource their bit-making over the last 20+ years.
    Lots of it (kitchen taps/fittings/Bed metalwork etc) will NEVER return to the UK.
    I did note a couple of years ago while in IKEA admiring the mechanism of a kitchen drawer rail, it was marked made in Germany.
    Anyway, UK standard of living has been declining for years.
    A local (to me) German guy told me theirs has been too.
    I guess when the richer countries constantly pay the EU billions into the club which then gets distributed to the poor countries, the richer ones lowers and the poor ones raise. until it all evens out.
    It almost sounds like their plan...

  24. Likes tim9lives, Trueturning liked this post
  25. #7518
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    new orleans
    Posts
    611
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1404
    Likes (Received)
    347

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    He thinks that we are the herd, and we developed herd mentality...only his supporters have that disease. It is no longer a Trump cult it is a death cult now.



    dee
    ;-D
    Herd MENTALITY....Yep Right... Trump is a fricking genius. Between Herd Mentality and injecting bleach....we have Covid under control. Hell... Probably only another 200,000 people will die.

  26. Likes dcsipo liked this post
  27. #7519
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    new orleans
    Posts
    611
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1404
    Likes (Received)
    347

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    Amazing how many of you eat the FOX shit. The US is the wealthiest country in the world, yet all of you are complaining about wage stagnation, Did any of you ever ask the question where that excess wealth go? Why the EU had not experienced the same wage stagnation? The answer is simple because they have a social welfare system collective bargaining and a democratic socialist government system that protects the workers. Not a fuckin greedy bastard government controlled by oligarch buying influence in both parties. If you would vote your economic interest instead of the propaganda you consume, you would be better off. Adopting the models in Germany or Denmark would not make you Cuba or Venezuela. Only idiots would believe that.




    dee
    ;-D
    I agree with most of your post. But will add that whenever a country goes to war then watch out...Inflation is around the corner. Just look at history. It happened after World War 1 WW2 and Vietnam. Hell, the USA had to close down Fort Knox and end the Gold Standard because France wanted Gold and no more fiat dollars. Our coinage ended its silver backing...no more silver dollars. All of that is war related. And then the USA was able to morph into the Petro Dollar.
    In our lifetime, the financial crisis of 2009 cause immense inflation in the USA. Not wages and not Chinese imports...but property prices skyrocketed. Its probably going to happen again....because the last article published by the Federal Reserve said they already pumped 6.1 TRILLION into equity markets. My god. SIX POINT ONE TRILLION. I was blown away. No wonder the stock market is up. Its all a house of cards guys.

  28. Likes dcsipo liked this post
  29. #7520
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    new orleans
    Posts
    611
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1404
    Likes (Received)
    347

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    I don't really suggest anyone watch the beginning or end of this video. (Who does this stuff?)

    But the middle part speaks historically of "progressive movements."

    People Who Accuse Trump of Being a “Fascist” Prove They Have No Idea What the Word Means - YouTube

    Now I wonder if the present "socialized" Europe" isn't just some sort of continuation or spring back. They have had a lot of experience at the extreme end.

    By the way, Did the EU reps consider themselves "essential" and continue collecting their salary as unelected planners for the future of common folk?
    Sure...the video has a crazy 18 y/o girl screaming and who cares. Who the hell is she. she's a nobody.
    As far as Dinesh D’Souza’s point....that Mussolini was a marxist...well. Okay, Then I would say what's the Putin connection. Because there is one and Putin has a Marxist history...Ya know...Lenin and that place called the Soviet Union. Thats Putin. And Trump is planning on seizing power. He has said as much . Just read between his lines. Mowing down resistance. that's an authoritarian talking.

  30. Likes dcsipo liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •